How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Recently (over the last 3 months), I've realized that my team (811) is not really a TEAM. Rather, we're more like just a group of lazy people with a handful of core members thrown in. This especially showed at the Manchester Regionals, when almost NOBODY on our team was cheering for our team. But wait, there's more! The "team members" that showed up to regionals and just hung around in the stands refused to actually be functional and help out when they were needed, whether it be in the pit, doing marketing stuff, drive team, etc. This is quickly becoming a major problem that threatens the future of our team (our school liason is seriously considering discontinuing FIRST for us).. However, this didn't really seem to be an issue for most other teams, especially the Aztechs, whose team was so upbeat and efficient... What I basically want is some feedback/ input from some other teams and see what you guys do to help make your team what it is, and how you keep it that way.. Any input is greatly appreciated!

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

We had the same problem at our school for the last 4 years. People would only attend lunch meetings and then claim to be a member. When it was time to get permission slips, shirts, etc.. They would all of a sudden argue and complain about why they should deserve shirts. Then, it was the event they, and they would show up two or three hours late, the school is 30 minutes WALKING from the Silicon Valley Regional and a bus runs directly between our school and San Jose State University, and then they would leave after lunch. The next day, if they came back, they would complain about why we aren't rank as high as when they left, even though they did not do anything, that day or before.

So this year our head mentor is very busy, we weren't even going to have a team since we had funding issues and he had a lot of duties in our school district. So, the day we come back from winter break I see our mentor in the hallway and he tells me to show up on Wednesday to discuss who was going to the kickoff, since the person who started us on FIRST was able to get us a grant for FIRST.

So we show up on Wednesday and he tells us that this year he won't be as involved as before, by the way this didn't last, in fact he probably spent more this year. So, he tells us that he wants to keep track of how long each of us works. Traditionally we did not show up until the last 2 or 3 weeks, but a few members, us hardcore members, started showing up. After a week of watching me come in, I totaled about 120 hours this year(the previous record on the team was my 50+ hours a few years ago), spend most of my weekends, and some times in between the week, the mentor decided that this year we would have a minimum hour requirement, along with safety tests, and a good knowledge of game rules(in form of asking questions and a 50 question quiz). If you did not meet these requirements you would not be considered a member, would not get a permission slip to get out, and would be shunned by everyone on the team. Over 40 people showed up to meetings(over all of the meetings), and only 24-27(some are border line) students actually got the hours. our entire roster runs at 34, with 4 alumni mentors, 2 school mentors, and an engineer from United Defense.

The minimum was 15 hours, obviously some spent more time than others, and those are the ones that are going to be the pit/driver team. 7 of us, aside from the mentors. I myself for putting in the most hours got the driver positions.

We have unofficially allowed about 4 students who are borderline to go to the event, on the condition that the finish the last hour requirements before next week(3/24-26). We ordered their shirts, but if they don't complete their part, we will take their shirts and give them to the two or three sponsors we have.

A zero tolerance policy works very well. I personally hound the kids to do work, or else I go off and vent steam where they can hear me.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

On 573, we do various things to make the team what it is and to keep it that way.

First of all, we make sure that everyone who is on the team has something to do, and that that something meets the interests and the talents of the team members (even what may seem as the smallest of tasks can inspire people). As a team leader, I had to help select the different sub-groups for the season, and this was something that we definitely took into consideration.

As a team, we informally pair up the new members with people who have been on the team before, a mode of mentoring student-style. In doing this, we create relationships and a strong younger group which can carry the team through future years in FIRST.

We try to organize off-school events - we've gone laser tagging, and are setting up a soup kitchen trip. Also, we have tailgates every so often. It is integral to forge those strong friendships, and organizing off-school events certainly helps to do that.

Keep the atmosphere light. Seriousness is a necessity, especially when the team has only six weeks to build a functioning robot. However, if it gets too serious, people will find themselves not wanting to work anymore. Take food breaks, or work on corny but catchy cheers.

Some may disagree with me here, but if laziness is an issue, make the meetings mandatory for travel. People will come if they really want to be inspired, and after a while will find themselves wanting to get involved.

Hope this helps!

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Same here with 1549

there were 4 core hardware people and 1 programmer that did 75% of all the work on the bot. the remaining 25% was done by like 5 differant people who only showed up the last 2 weeks and we had like 15 people at regionals.

I was one the the 5 who did a boatload of work on the bot and i didnt even know half of them.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

yeah we at 1155 had similar problems. we've got around 10 core members and 4 or 5 less core but still motivated members out of 60 something on construction. what we did to solve this problem was that since we arnt allowed to kick people off we took down the names of all the people that didn't come for 2 weeks straight and told them they weren't allowed in the machine shop. as for keeping the rest of us as a team, us 10 core construction members get along pretty well, and have team bonding while making fun of our programmers.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

yeah, most of 1403 will probably would say the same thing. At my school the stage crew for the plays had everyone that wanted to help sign a contract saying you will do x amount of hours of work to say you are a member of the team if not you will be excluded from the club. Another thing that happens is you get people signing up really late compared to everyone else on the team, thats a problem too.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

lol, the joke on our tem is that we have to buy the (1)programmer food because "if you dont keep the fat programmer fat he might get some dignity and walk off"

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Hey, you're the one with the CCNP :P

But on a more serious note, I would suggest that rather than putting a minimum on hours of commitment, you try to make sure that everyone has a role. I am a strong believer in micromanagement, and that if everyone has a task to do which they enjoy, they will do it. Try to define a specific task (especially for these drifters), and stress not that they have to do it just to call themselves part of the team, but that you only have less than 6 weeks, and need a robot at the end. I find that in general this technique works fairly well, and you'll be able to tell after the first week or so (ask for status reports) who is and isn't doing their job. If they aren't, perhaps that would be a good time to start pushing them as to if they really are commited to the team, because this job needs to be done. Hopefully at this point if they won't do it, they'll come out and say so and just leave the team.

But then of course you have people like me who don't find out that your school has a robotics team and needs a programmer until the last week, completely destroying the entire system, but whatever :P

We have a few on our team like you described (who I think were outside smoking the entire time), and it's really a shame, and something that I'd like to try and work on next year for our team.

On another note, when do you start work with your team?
I think that next year we're going to start first thing in september, breaking into subgroups, making proof of concepts, general design sketches, practicing, etc. I think that this will really help to 1: Get us more organized for when the competition starts, 2: Unite us better, because we'll have been working together for far longer, and finally, that the people who are just temporarily lured in will drop out by then.

But that's just my two cents...

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

This is a tough situation for any team member to deal with, and I admire how dedicated you are to solving it, particularly when you're also threatened by a school cutoff.

Here are a few important factors to consider:

You're on the right track! Keep track of those hours, because numbers motivate students. Really make an effort to reward effort. Personally congratulate students if they reach a certain mark.

Lisa touched on a subject I'd really like to elaborate on. Sub-teams are crucial. Keep in mind that not everyone on your team is at all suited to construction/electronics/etc. Some people prefer website, animation, adverstising, and stuff like that. Something to consider next year would be preliminary interviews. Interview each student in a panel (panel includes student leader and mentor, or more) and just ask what their interests are on the team. If you give someone a chance to do what they enjoy you'll get more out of them.

Above all, reach out to young members, because they are the team future. If you ever need anything, neighboring teams can serve as an example, and do an event with you if they're willing.

Good luck!

- Genia

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

The best way to insure participation on the team is to get the kids to buy into the idea of taking ownership of the team. FIRST is an investment and the kids should realize that this is all for them and should be encouraged to embrace it fully. Obviously not all of them are going to buy into it but bribing and bullying will only go so far. If they make the team their own they will truly care about how it is doing, how it is percieved and how it can grow. Otherwise there is a vaery real chance the team could perish.
The best way to avoid the malcontents is to have an interview process and "weed them out". If they don't want to be there then why should they be there? Make it clear this is a full time deal and if they can't make the commitment then they cannot be part of the team. period.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

As Ed mentioned, everyone has an investment in the team to call it their own and the first step is to have high standards and expectations from the very beginng and be organized. We make sure applications are filled, applicants are interviewed and then re-iterate to all that this program is like a scholarship. You have to prove to us that you deserve to be on the team and it's a privilege. Minimal criterias are a must to establish a baseline of commitment. 6 weeks is not alot of time so we need everyone to do their share.

Elllery
visit www.firstrochester.org under Team Development resources for samples of our team handbook and Critical Process manual.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Great idea but doesn't the team loses some pressure if you'd start in September? I'd think everybody would be bored by January if you do that.

What you really should do is, some different stuff. Fundraisers (and explain to the team why), some Workshops (the team members teach each other over what they know best) or maybe a small robot, etc.


How ever our team has a problem (at least I would say so) with getting new dedicated members. We have the most of the original core leaving school, so there aren't many leaders left.
What do you do about that?

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Get the younger kids involved. Since we have a 6-12 robotics program, and do a lot of outreach, we don't have many problems with this. Subgroups, and making sure that one core member takes a few younger people under his/her wing... :shrugs:
Our hardware/electrical team members worship us, the programmers. :D It's usually a hardware problem anyways.. or rather, time runs out and it doesn't come to programming yet.
The team usually starts out with 40-50 people at the beginning of the school year, and thins out around building season. There's a core team of about 15-20 people. We keep track of hours, community service, fundraising, and participation for travelling- which is a good incentive. Mandatory meetings and events are also a good way to have a team to act like a team. Since our team is mostly student-run, we've all become really good friends. Team socials and other types of events are really cool too.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Before build season, we had a number of shorter, less intense meetings to somewhat intice the less dedicated newbies. We also had zero freshman join the team (that might have something to do with it). We did some light work and kindof lulled them to sleep. This time also allowed some of the veterans to share some stories of fun events from the previous year.

Once build season started then we started to pull the 6 hour nights, but we made sure to have fun. We involved everyone, and if they didn't have any jobs or specialties then another member would attempt to teach them their trade. The more that a rookie is involved in the actually building/designing of the robot, the more pride they will feel toward the team. This way they will be more enthusiastic in the stands and more keen to get involved. The key is strong student-student relationships and a light atmosphere. MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY EVER WORKS ALONE!

We also had a system of logging hours, but our minimum to go to regionals was 50 hours and for Atl it is 100 hours. After hearing the stories of the exploits from last year, everyone wanted to go.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Might I add Lego League? Getting the young kids involved is a BIG DEAL. I can vouch for it as a witness. I was on a lego league team and for 2 years I had heard about "big robotics". I couldn't wait to be a part of it. Now... I'm our student team leader and robot operator. In fact our entire drive team this year was on the very first FLL team we had at our middle school. Being in FLL got me (and others) VERY excited about FIRST and everything it stood for. I encourage you to mentor a lego league team in your area. If there isn't one, start one! Seeing the kids get excited the same way I did four years ago is a great thing. You'll get a lot of hard working students out of that... and they WANT to learn.

As for keeping your team together NOW... that is a different story. A lot of times I think kids will either quit or come in late because they feel like they're working for nothing. When you've never experienced a competition before it's really hard to know what to expect. When you go to the competitions, you realize what all your hard work and dedication was for. The competitions are a real reward. That's one thing I emphasized this year for all the newbies, that they WILL NOT be dissappointed. For team spirit and such, i suggest pep talks. It's almost like a pep rally before the competition. Team spirit at the meetings doesn't hurt either. Get pumped! Get excited! FIRST is the thrill of a lifetime! (and don't be afraid to be cheesy... cheesy is cool in robotics)

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Well any team can easily lose themselve to the dark side. The dark side being that the team folds under due to those who do not feel like participating in the program anymore.

Sometimes, a team must result in a in forming their team into a business. A business solution is a fantastic idea. You give 1 share of stock for each year a student attends. The shares of stock can be used for voting and other business related functions.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

don't let the programmers know they have rights, because then they might just get up and leave

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

i don't agree as a freshmen i find that i come to meetings more than many other students older than me. organizing the team this way would be unfair to those who are new but still motivated

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Well yes, of course you would not award stock for freshmen. The stock may be rewarded on a special system your business may have. Going above and the call of duty may result in one share. Your business may issue or de-issue them at anytime.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

We have the hours cards...
We try to make sure everyone did SOMETHING on the robot or team...

But to really hold the team together, we have found that it has to be fun. Can't bark orders at people. They have to want to be there.

So you say - the team doesn't want to go play laser tag. OK, start small. See what everyone is interested in. Maybe they like to play cards - OK, set up a card night. Or a card playing meeting during some down time. Or maybe they like movies. Play a movie clip on a laptop at the beginning of the meeting. Or have a movie night at someone's house. Or get everyone out to the movies. I know - it sounds weird not working on ALL ROBOT ALL THE TIME, but it's a good thing.

This is something our team looses focus on - the "fun" part. So we have remind ourselves from time to time.

(And yes, building robots is fun - but so is the short movie "troops")

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

We record hours as well. I've noticed a certain "working minority" on team as well. Maybe i'm being ignorant, but some people don't seem to be doing work or being very productive.

I'd say if their blatantly being apathetic towards the team, yet still demanding the same respect as a member, then you should ignore them until they realize they are blocking themselves from participating. You have to stress to all members that people have to find their own work and it will not come to them (and usually work coming to them is honestly not the most um... exciting).

If they do not choose to learn or participate with the team, they are not taking the experience of FIRST seriously and are in turn, not contributing to the team and adding a burden to the dedicated members (dead-weight theory). Dedicated members usually are self motivated, wether its satification of building a robot, ownership of the team, respect, etc.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

The 0ne thing Ive found with team 573 is most of us do most of the work. we've done team activities such as lazer tag, tailgating and team driving practice. We all seem to get along but inevitability there is 1 or 2 members who are rude to other members (who listen to them quietly) when we are having group strategy and/or brainstorming meetings. Nobody has quite figured out how to deal with them yet but unfortunately enough our logging of daily hours worked too well and inspired them to come but not really do work.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

I definitely agree that it is seen on all teams where there is only a handful of people who build the robot. I completely put this thing together for our team, 295 and it was quite a ton of work and effort, but it was worth it. This year, we had a grand total of five members, no school support or other adults, besides my dad, and we actually ended up building it in my garage. :cool: Just curious, but did we make the record of having the smallest team ever?

It was quite funny at competition when alliances looked up in the stands and went "there's are team!, where's your's?" and I'd reply "we are all on the field, right here=)" :p But back to the whole "team building" it is a very, very hard thing...I found that you do have to make things fun so people will come, which in my case I really needed, include everyone, haha that wasn't hard considering Whit and I basically built the whole robot, Matt had programming, Mike did pnuematics, and Lucas did the odd jobs when asked...

Keeping things fun always helps too, I made that a goal of ours from the beginning, as obviously with four other people I wasn't expecting to win the SacRegional but it was for fun and learning. By the way anyone who is interested we did finish the bot in time, without a shop and in my garage, five people and all, ended up 17th which made me very happy! :D

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

if you're having trouble with keeping a team, a good talking to is always good. if the team spirit is low, then someone has to take charge, just randomly. that's what i did at the sac regional in 2003, and the fembots ended up winning the spirit award. i can almost guarantee, that by someone just taking charge and pumping up the team, you can get them into it and who knows? you could win the spirit award.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Our team, born 5 years ago, started out with these problems. Too many people showed up at a minimum number of meetings for the opportunity of a free trip and a chance to throw the words "FIRST Robotics" up on their college applications.

Two years ago, the mentors decided to have "try-outs" for the first time. Students had to fill out an application about what they were interested in, and they had to write a resume to show what they have been involved in and their high school history of extra-curriculars. Finally, they had to undergo an interview with a group of mentors.

That year (the first year there were tryouts), our team worked amazingly and placed 1st and one regional and 3rd at another. However, this was because out of over 50 students, it was easy to narrow it down from 23 because the mentors knew who/ they were getting.

Since then, each year has become more difficult with this process. Newer students do not know what they are getting into untill they are "stuck with it" while students that are not selected, end up caring more than some of the non-shower-uppers on the team.

I think selection is a good thing. After all, 6 weeks is extremely short and robotics is an extremely expensive program to fun. But I don't think that this is the way to go because like I said, wit this selection process, you end up with people who don't care, and miss out on people who do.

So here's my proposal. Have a mock build-season in the fall right when school ends. Let anyone be a part of this who wants to be, and propose a challenge (even designing a universally themed robot within 6 weeks as a prep to the actual build season). Have some way to evaluate who worked hard and was involved, and who only showed up once in awhile. Then have a selection/elimination right before the Kickoff and that's your team.

What do you think?

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

I don't agree with the try outs for a team, it should be open to everyone. But A good idea could be to use a point system, based on attendance and just general shown interest in the team. All you would need is a chart where every student has to mark/sign in at each meeting, students who don't show up much, are considered a non traveling member, unless they pay all for them selves. And i understand there are always odd cecum stances that could make people miss time and such but those could be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Having a application is a great Idea, MOE uses one since we are part of 12 schools we have to have a way to sort people out. Here is MOE's student application I hope the best for your team and for you to be able to come together as a team, so you can continue to be a FIRST team.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

I fear interviews...

We had 65 sign up this year. We send them all through a little interview, not to cut people but to see what they might be interested in.

As a mentor, I can say that we would have keep some people that were not too interested in the team, and cut some of our best people.

We decided we'll let people's interest fall were it may. MY mentor (a manager here at work) has always said I should worry about the hard working people, and let the non-interested people decide what they want to do on their own.

And out of those 65 people, about 45-50 do quite a bit. I'm impressed.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Hi, our team never really had a problem with this, but maybe I can offer some insight about why we never did and some suggestions so that this problem can be fixed. First off when the students want to participate on the team, they must go through an application process as well as get a recommendation from a teacher. They must sign an agreement saying that if they choose to join they commit to being at all mandatory meetings throughout the season. If they cannot, then they cant be on the team. A team needs support by all its members to be successful, thats what being a team means.

Before the season starts, I would suggest having some mandatory meetings just for team building and to get to know each other. If you really know your team mates and everyone starts to see that coming to meetings is enjoyable, then they will be more willing to come. Make sure everyone on the team has a role, split the team up into different sub-groups. Give them responsibility. If they are responsible for something and know that their time will not be wasted while at the meetings then they will come. A fun thing that my team likes to do is have "theme days". Every Saturday meeting that we have we have a different theme to dress up as. It keeps the team spirit high and they can have some fun with it. Think of different ways to keep the students interested, find out what they want to do on the team and pair them up with a someone who has been on the team before to show them the ropes.

Being a leader for anything is never an easy job. Whether it is FIRST, or your job, the leaders often are doing a lot more things than you ever see to make sure the team is successful.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Another good idea is to give all the team members a questionnaire at the end of the season and get them to give their input. They will tell you if there were any problems or things they didn't like to help better the program for others. It's also good because it gives the adults the students perspective on certain issues.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

On our team, we come together because of the sense of fraternity. We all know what has to be done, and we split up and work. I think that many of us are propelled by the urgency and emergency of it all. Since our school, district, and city don't really care about us, we feel that in a way that we are proving ourselves. If you stop showing up, or fail to do anything useful, you leave. The key to staying a team is to establish very early that yes, this will be a lot of work. However, it will be fun, useful work that you'll carry with you to your college applications, your children, and to your grave. I would like to think that our team builds more people than robots.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

To whoever game me a negative on that post: The programmer thought that up and he happens to be one of my good friends. Dont be so quick to judge please.

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

Our team is so small, we didn't have any room for people who didn't work. Everyone worked on the robot, and at the competition, almost everyone did what they were supposed to. Except for the group that went out and talked to a tour group when they were supposed to be talking to other teams, but hey...

Re: How do you keep your FIRST team a TEAM?
 

i think all teams end up having this problem especially the growth of members..what to do with everyone..keeping everyone busy during build season is hard..how many hands can fit around the bot and work efficiently...

our team faces this challenged since 2002 when we started to have the most membership..and this year our team has the most members...some are truely active..others aren't...it is annoying to have people on that don't work yet they can go to competitions...yeah helpful w/ scouting and that's about it..

our team this year increased the price of traveling and how much you have to raise to help take out people that truely don't want to be bothered along with attendence and tests. The attendence thing is a problem i will admit..people just show up and socialize and don't work...we are figuring out a new system next year..perhaps ppl get signed off for their work...do something and a mentor signs that u actually worked for x amount of hrs on x project. the tests ask about the game, our team and the bot..you have to pass to go to competitions
our team does do fll so we do have now former fll members and we start basically in septemeber. having a full year long team is helpful for the rookies and allow the team to grow. So many things can be prototyped in the fall and tried out. most of our team is all friends...get together play ddr, or halo...

hopefully everyone's teams will continue to have support and funding...with out no team can exist even with active members.

good luck to everyone w/ their teams...