Coaches and the starting line
 

I hate to ask this, but I've searched Q&A and re-read the rules regarding coaches and the player starting line. I see nothing written stating coaches cannot cross that line "ever". Yet I've heard it now from 2 regionals that refs were telling coaches their team would get disqualified if the coach crossed that starting line during a match. I don't know how it got started but I'd like it to get cleared up before our next comp. Hopefully someone from FIRST will see this and broadcast it to the refs that this rule doesn't exist. Or do I need to practice my downhill skiing stance?



This guy on the right has a good duck foot thing goin, but the other 2 - rule breakers?

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

The way I understand it, that line is only "there" for the first 15 seconds of the match, autonomous mode. Once auton. is over the line "disappears" and there is only the station's box that limits the motion of any of the floor crew members per team per station. Basically, I agree I don't think, other than the general parameters of the driver's station that there is a limit as to where the coach may move.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

If this happened at 2 regionals, I would like to know if anyone got an explanation from the head ref. If you did, what rule did they cite, or what was their reasoning?

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

That happen at the NJ Regional too.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

Also, the Great Lakes Regional.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

Weird. I never heard that and was constantly across the line coaching and never DQ'd or warned. I know I was because I stabbed the plexi once pointing to a goal we really needed.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

We were cited for one foot fault by our coach, but that was for stepping on the larger outside bounding line, never for stepping close to the drivers. It's very hard to check scoring of the floor tetras or to see low-down action up against the wall without stepping closer to the windows.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

At both Pittsburgh and Waterloo I was never spoken to or warned about being over the "starting line", and I stand right between our drivers, spending the entire match over it. I would also like to know if there's an explination for the two regionals it happened at, as we still have one left to attend. Interesting...

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

Another thing that happened was that when we tried to start with the tetra at the beginning of the match. At NJ, we were allowed to position the tetra on the robot so that it leaned on one of the goals(we were allowed to do this according to the refs). At the Buckeye regional the refs told us that this was illegal and that the NJ refs weren't following the rules. I am a little confused about all of this. This was a little disheartening to hear because we started to base our autonomous off of what the NJ refs told us. We had to change our autonomous at the Buckeye regional.


GO 1403!!!

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

We were? When? I don't remember that - I hardly ever move from inbetween the drivers. (I'm the coach in the middle of that picture there). What do you mean by "foot fault" anyway? A penalty? If so, definitly not - I would have remembered that. No ref ever said anything to me anyway.

I heard from some other teams' coaches that coaches can't step over the line, but the refs never said anything to me at LI or PA and I'm constantly over the line. :confused: I also asked at LI specifically where I'm allowed to walk once the match starts (as in, am I allowed to walk next to my alliance partners), and the answer I got was I had to be within the large box.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

All - I also am not aware of any rule regarding coaches and the autonomous starting line. In fact a Q&A on the FIRST site responded that coaches may go any where within the boundaries - that is why there isn't 3 separate sections.
A coach, clearly, cannot touch the controls - but a foot violation of a rule that doesn't exist?
Please - someone must stop this kind of activity. It doesn't do anyone any good to get a penalty for a rule that is made up by someone without FIRST sanctioning the new rule and posting it for everyone's awareness.
Until it is cleared up - every coach out there must now ask the ref's watching the drivers station what they intend on calling. There are much bigger issues out there, those that make a difference or give a competitive advantage. Rule violations and penalties for actions like this MUST stop.
During our first competition we had to request clarity as to when the drivers could touch the controls. The clock timer on the display at the end of the field or the sound of the bells? Once that was understood, the drivers foot position before autonomous ended was the focus of attention - but never, never, never, in all the years that I have coached, has there been a rule about where the coach can put their feet.
It is up to us to request clear communication - alter behaviour accordingly. Bring up the concerns and issues in an appropriately profession manner and hope that FIRST steps in and assists the ref's in understanding and executing only those that they have sanctioned.
Can anyone please tell us what was the rationale used for calling the violation? Bharat or Lisa?? I don't doubt your word, but can you give first hand dialog between the ref that called it and the coach it was called on?
And - the ruling about tetra positioning was correct at Buckeye (you can't use the goal or playing field to position the tetra) - only your robot.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

Just for clarification - a referee came over to me at the end of our first match (also the first match of the regional), because I had been over the line coaching for the entire match, and told me as a warning that coaches were by no means allowed over the line. No justification, though.

We did not receive any penalties for that "infraction".

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

I saw a ref from UCF telling Lynn from 386 something. Then Lynn came over to me and said not to cross the line. This happened right as the match was starting, so I tried to comply even though I knew it was bogus. There I was leaning over trying to see and communicate - it was ridiculous. I stepped past the line without thinking about it at one point, and Lynn jumped at me yelling GET BACK!! lol

Then Andy from 233 said he heard the same thing that day, but we both played dumb since we weren't told directly - nor had we seen such a thing in the rules. But then Kit told me it happened again while they (233) were at Colorado this past weekend. So it wasn't an isolated event.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

At the UTC Regional one of the refs told me during our first round that I couldn't cross the line, but after he went to the head ref then came back to me and told me that he was wrong that I could cross the line. So I guess that they aren't very clear on that situation with the refs also.

Re: Coaches and the starting line
 

If you were told that you couldn't cross the line, and knew that it sounded bogus, why didn't you go ask the refs right after they told you that?
As a coach, you should know the rules best. If the refs told you something that you don't think is in the rule book, it is your responsibility to ask the refs for clarification. That includes them reading the rule to you and explaining themselves.