What's happening to this program???
 

I am someone who really believes in the FIRST program but lately with having perfume poured on my daughter as a prank at a team social and now getting news back from the Denver regional I am really floored!!! :confused:

Some teams are actually planning strategies to rip others pneumatics off, or how to do damage to others robots. One of our team members came back and told me (I am one of the mentors) about someone who wanted to make an alliance with us and their strategy was to try and damage other robots by ripping off or damaging their pneumatics. :ahh: This is NOT ROBOT WARS!!!

I think people are not being taught what FIRST ROBOTICS represents or they are totally missing the point with this program. If you are in it to win at all cost and you do not mind messing up MANY, MANY long hard hours of MANY people's time- I think you should find another program such as Robot Wars and join that.

Please do not destroy other people hopes, hard work and aspirations because you have the wrong mentality for this program! FIRST is NOT about damaging others Robots! Remember "GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM" is what is required in this program- if you are unclear about what that is go to:
http://www.usfirst.org

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

The one thing I really liked about kick-off this year is how Dave and Dean and Woodie stressed the fact that IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU LOOSE, becuase either way, you still built a robot out of bits in pieces in 6 weeks, and learned new things. It's about having a good time, meeting new people, sharing ideas,and learning. A trophy is a meer piece of plastic, if you value that more than everything else FIRST has to offer, then I think you may be forgetting what this program is all about.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

We go through this every year.
The old gaurd complains about how impersonal and rude and cuthroat FIRST is becomming and they proclaim. THIS IS THE END OF FIRST!
Yes there is much stress and drama present here this season with folks complaining about refs and rules and such. But it's not like people didn't complain other seasons as well.
Not everyone is going to buy into what the program is selling. Not everyone is going to want inspiration over winning. Not everyone is going to be graciously professional.
Still somehow FIRST remains a great community and a great tool for inspiring our youth, in spite of all of this. That FIRST can survive all of this strife is a true testiment to it's greatness.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

While I may seem like a driving optimist, I will tell you that for everyone of those people that wants to rip off pneumatics or cheat in the game, there are hundreds of well-spirited ambitious teenagers and mentors who care about this program and don't do the things that you mention.

When you enter any program, athletic, academic, scientific or otherwise, there will be conflicts. FIRST isn't a perfect universe, it's not a mecca for perfectly sportsmanlike people. It's a community, and in order for the program to last there have to be problems to understand how to fix them.

I guess I'm feeling upset because of the amount of berating going on the past few weeks against some ref or some award winner, because it reflects negatively on those who want to maintain a positive attitude and influence.

Here is the solution: (edit: at least) 12 hugs a day

- Genia

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Well I do see some problems with the program but unfortunatly that is reality. Every team howver has a core who feel as though the won if the robot ships in working condition and then see competition as a showcase of their hard work and to learn from the work of others.

To show that the group isnt all bad at UTC their was a team tangled in someone elses pnuematics they could have easily pulled back their robot and risked damaging the other teams pnumatics however they instead worked with their opponent to get free without damage to the other bot. At the end of the match they apologized for the tangling and made sure they didnt do any damage

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

A couple of further thoughts.
FIRST is no longer a program. It's an institution. The selfish acts of a few misguided individuals cannot destroy it. Hell it can't even dilute it.
Think about it: Look at professional baseball. They got labor strife, steroid scandals and economic imbalance and yet people still love the game and still go watch it.
Look at the United States. It has rampant crime and poverty, failing public school systems , an ever growing budget deficit and a supposed divide between the left and the right. And yet I dare anyone to say it's still not a great country.
This is what FIRST has become. It has taken on a life of it's own and the only thing that can kill it is a catastrophic event that would bring the end to everything (like a meteor striking the earth) or outright indifference from every participating member. Maybe in 1992 when it was starting out FIRST was touch and go but every year it has grown bigger and stronger. It may not be sweeping the nation but it's embedded in the landscape of it's conscience and it's never ever going to leave.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

FIRST truley is an institution for the mere fact, where else can you go up and hug a stranger and get a hug back, and not mace in the face or put in jail for sexual harassment? Anyways, FIRST is a great program, and to all teams that looked at dirty strategies that involved damage to some parts of other robots ... shame on you all... anyways, in my opinion you are a winner if you stuck out the regional event, even if you did not compete, but spectated. In some way, every spectator has given to the FIRST community, whether it was bringing food to a team, volunteering to transport materials for field assembly, or such the likes. FIRST is a great instance of what everything should be, despite the bad apples, which is always in every scenario that we deal with as a person. I say, let them be bad, because something worst will happen to them. Like per say, their phuematic lines get ripped off by accident in the final match of nats costing their alliance the victory, which in my case, I would be really really upset, as would the other teams participating, but still would be a worthy punishment for damaging actions.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

These are all good comments, but a few bad apples can ruin the bushel. It's the responsibility of all the teams to play fair and to ensure that other teams are doing the same. It's not good enough to just turn a blind eye if something like that is occuring. By not doing anything it is telling that team that they can cheat and get away with it. Because to them, if no one objects, then their strategy must be ok. It's also not a good idea to point fingers and publicly call out other teams who may or may not be cheating. If you see or hear about a team that's planning to bend or break the rules or the spirit of the rules, I would suggest talking to them privately. Something along the lines of, "Do you really think that will be the best strategy? What about this?", and provide some examples of your own. We have to be able to police ourselves at times.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Of course we all want FIRST to be perfect. But they are human, not robots.

Keep in mind that there have been major arguments every year.

In 2002 there was the The tether issue
In 2003 there was "Collusion"
In 2004 there was "Collaboration"

The moral: FIRST will always have issues. Sometimes there will be arguments. However, as the students and mentors of FIRST, it is our job to keep this program that has touched so many lives going. I think we are just experiencing the "annual argument" and hopefully it will pass soon.

-Daniel

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Oh Wow! Collusion!
Now that was a hot button topic!
I don't remeber tethers being a problem til the championship and teams started getting DQed left and right on the center field (I frgot which one it was).
The collabertion issue seems so moot this year with so many examples of it this year.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

The point is that it wasn't moot last year. That argument was probably worse and more heated than the one we are having now.

Re: tethers
That was before my time, I'm just relaying a thread on it.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

I haven't posted many times as you all can see and I just wanted to say "Thanks" for bringing up my spirits once again! :)

I agree FIRST is an institution, I stand corrected when I said program. I also agree nothing is perfect, unfortunately. I am GLAD to see such emotion when we bring up such a subject because I know deep in my heart the biggest majority of the people, kids, students, mentors involved love FIRST and what it stands for and would do and are doing the RIGHT thing. WAY TO GO...keep up the GREAT JOB!!! I know many, many of us would not have not turned a blind eye to the happenings and comments in this situation mentioned. I know I would have said something had I been there, unfortunately I was not there.

I guess when so many of us feel as strongly as we about something as good as this I know that it will be just fine. I don't think FIRST will ever die as some have written. I know it may change and evolve- has to with so many coming on board...but change is a good thing. Lot's of wonderful things come from change- I will be watching for all the great things that will come from all the new teams and ideas.

Thanks to everyone for your positive thoughts- you are all winners in my book! :D

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

In every organization, there are a few bad eggs. In such a large institution such as FIRST, they are bound to be more noticable. But the great majority of FIRSTers understand and care for the values of Gracious Professionalism, moreso than any other organization I've been in. Mentors and students who strategize about breaking other robots will soon learn that there are first, many rules against that that the referees can call them on, and second, that FIRST first and foremost is not Battlebots.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Obviously anyone would like to win. But it's not what competition should be about. i can say for most of team (though I shouldn't speak for everyone) that one of the main reasons for really trying to win is because our school doesn't really care about robotics. It seems that the more things we win, the more they actually notice us. so it's a way of motivating our team to work harder during build season and before it starts so we can be our absolute best during the competition season. I know some teams are not like this. some teams receive a lot of support from their school. but I can't speak for everyone. all I know is that I enjoy winning most because it helps get more kids involved.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

The thing is that in every event there will be some people who don't have the word lose in their vocabulary. The thing is that FIRST made this program not to have people become winners and losers, but to train us for what it is like to work with a team, a group of people. Learn new engineering skills. This is giving us all a head start towards engineering, business, designing. One thing that our mentors have told us that once out in the corporate world you will have to know how to work together. This gives us a chance to practice out leadership skills. Also something people must realise is that the games that first designs is such that so any team can be a winner even if their robot does not even move.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

To those disheartened on this thread. If there is one thing I have learned in the time I have participated is that there is always someone who did something, some team that isn't gracious, some school that locks out another school or some parent who doesn't like the way the program is run and wants to start their own team. I have found that these stories are usually second and third hand, blown out of proportion, taken out of context or perpetrated by a freshman. (I use the term 'freshman' to indicate anyone who is a first year student or adult even if they are on an established team)
There are so many great teams, wonderful and caring adults, smart and gifted students all working under the example of GP that minor setbacks have no chance of disrupting the program. The perfume act is unfortunate and I can only hope it has no long lasting effects either physically or emotionally. The talk of a team trying to rip off pneumatics is not even a bump in the road. We will always have someone pointing these incidents out to us but there are more effective ways to handle it then bringing it up in a public forum. Some of the issues brought up earlier in this thread did have some merit in that one or two did fly in the face of the established rules and intent. Those issues (because they upset a level playing field) do need discussion, without finger pointing, and a resolution made if necessary.
Until we reach a perfect world, we need to continue to teach freshman by example, with understanding, compassion and GP and in private when it is appropriate.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Thanks Al for your post. I also thank you for your kind comments about the perfume incident.

I agree that things won't ever be perfect anywhere unfortunately- but we can try! :)

I also feel unless we make some of these points known, so many will not know they are happening. We had no clue people were scouting planning strategies to damage others robots. We all were shocked. We also would not choose to be in an alliance with them- we have noted that for future reference.

Others do need to be aware that some unhappiness is being spread and when we are aware of it- we can meet those challanges head on. Then when approached by a team such as this- we or others say NO... it is not okay to strategize or operate that way. Either they comment to the judges/officials or possibly talk to the mentors, or even say we do not operate that way and it is neither Gracious nor Professional and we will not participate in that sort of behavior nor be paired with someone we know is doing this.

I think this type of forum is a good forum to reach the masses and tell others the good and the bad. I most certainly love reading the good stories and news but I think we shouuld not cover up the bad- so many people learn so many different things here.

Thanks for writing and thanks for your opinions.
D'

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Anytime. I have millions of good stories, the bad I think I can count on my hands. Good luck!

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Hey now that is what I LIKE TO HEAR!!! :D
Share some of those goodies sometime...don't keep them all to yourself hehe

D'

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

It gets me really aggravated when i hear so many people dwelling on the few problems of other teams. There is a big deal being made about this incident of ungracious professionalism and its a downer. Even if, hypothetically, this team decided to try to pull that off at the nationals they would end up losing their match, probably be disqualified from the event, and more importantly lose all respect from FIRST and its teams.

I agree that some teams do not understand what gracious professionalism is and do not completely grasp the full concept of FIRST but complaining about it is not a good enough way to fix it. The only way to fix it is to have your team display those qualities.

As Dean Kamen would say "You get what you celebrate." If we celebrate what FIRST stands for and celebrate gracious professionalism other teams will learn from that and have no choice but to do the same. You cant sit someone down and try to explain to them what FIRST is all about. The only way for them to understand is by seeing it and then end up gaining this huge respect for it. Once you really can respect the whole FRC then they will want
to be a part of it. FIRST is not easy to sell but it sells itself.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Honestly, I agree. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world and sometimes people don't do the responsible thing. A lot of us in the program are still young, and we are still learning to make the right choices in life. FIRST is wonderful because it advocates those right choices and even has awards for them. There are always people who are only in it to win it. All we can do to help other teams do the right thing is to do the right thing ourselves. It is human nature that a few people involved in the FIRST program will make wrong choices, but it in no way means that FIRST itself is falling apart. :)

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

Im patiently waiting for 2:00:00AM EST so I can set my clocks ahead and change my smoke detector batteries (WOOT!) and saw this thread.

Al hit the square snail in the head. It takes about a year for some students, mentors and parents to really understand FIRST, to 'get it'

so you gotta expect some people involved in the teams are going to be out in left field. Happens every year.

Other things that happen every year:

debates over whether the students should build the robot without adult help
every team has at least one romance
every team has at least one cross-team romance at a regional or the championship
every team ends up with one student in tears at an event (sometimes off by themselves)
every team ends up with at least one student and one adult who gets so upset they quit the team
every year there is at least one team that is the outcast / rebels / renegades
every year there is a controversy about some aspect of the game, or how it ends up being played

its good to know these things ahead of time. You can almost make a list and check them off each year as they happen.

Knowledge is power. Know whats coming and you can be ready for it when it happens.

Re: What's happening to this program???
 

way to keep it righteous...