Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

Although each regional is extremely costly for each team to attend I believe that the experience itself is worth every penny. If there are teams can pay the entry fee for multiple regionals nothing should hold them back. If my team could afford it I know we would all be at as many as possible.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

Originally posted by Allison K:
Ms. K, I’m very glad you have spotlighted this issue.

I think that attending a regional event ABSOLUTELY counts as achieving the goals of FIRST (particularly the Inspiration aspect). However, all regional attendance is not equal. What do I mean? I’ll explain.

I believe that there are two main ways in which a team may choose to attend a regional event:
1) The “full-team method.”
OR
2) The “drive-team method.”

The “full-team method” probably needs no explanation. But an example or two might prove useful.

Example A: Bluateam is planning to attend only one regional event this year. When it comes time for Bluateam to compete in their regional, the entire team attends. Maybe Bluateam is a large team, or maybe Bluateam is a small team; regardless of their size, every team member that is eligible to be with the team at the regional will do so. Bluateam members will go to the regional, they will get the joy of seeing their own creation come to life and compete against other works of engineering brilliance. In some cases, Bluateam wins awards for being the most spirited, for being the most gracious professionals (sportsmanship), or for truly exemplifying what FIRST is all about (Chairman’s). A perfect example of this sort of team is Team 364 (Sparky), out of Richmond, VA. At the NASA/VCU regional they embodied, in my humble opinion, the true spirit of FIRST. They were always spirited, helpful, and gracious professionals.

Example B: Bluateam is planning to attend two (or more) regional events this year. Bluateam sends its entire team to both regionals. Bluateam members are inspired at each competition. Again, in some cases, Bluateam wins awards for being the most spirited or for being the most gracious professionals (sportsmanship). Bluateam has many reasons for attending an additional regional event, but most of all they feel as if the entire team has benefited from the experience.

The “drive team method” is one that has been employed by a number of different teams. It is often used to gain a competitive advantage over other teams (which is not, specifically, up for debate in this thread).

Example: Redateam is planning to attend two regionals and nationals. To the first regional they attend, they send 3 students (the drive team) and some number of engineers (we’ll say 7). Those 10 Redateam members do not try to win any awards, other than those involving the design/success of the robot. Redateam has sent those 10 team members for two reasons: 1) to gain additional driving experience and 2) to gain an extra three days to build/fix the robot.

The question then, redefined, is this:
Do YOU believe that the $5,000 dollars (which is, I might add, a very low estimate) spent by Redateam to send their drive team and 7 engineers to an additional regional could be better spent in the interests of achieving the goals of FIRST (to inspire in young people an interest in engineering and science)?
In other words, do you believe that the money used to fund the "drive-team method," as described above, could not be used differently so as to inspire more people to become involved with science and engineering?


Originally posted by Katie Reynolds:
I'm not 100% sure, but I do not believe that there is any rule that prevents a team from attending more than three regionals. As for last year, there was most definitely not a rule preventing teams from attending more than 3 (hence the 16 teams that attended 4 regionals).


The feedback so far has been absolutely great. Thanks to everyone who has posted their thoughts.

-Andrew

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

I think that teams should be allowed to do whatever they want want with their time and money, like someone else said, they fund raised for it. I think it would be cool for everyone to go to at least two regionals because of the experience and more chances to qualify for Championships if they are not already pre-qualified.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

Teams should be limited to one, or make it so everyone can attend 2. We wanted to attend a 2nd regional but just couldn't get the money to go. Its kinda (man, i know this sounds like whining) dissappointing to see teams who have large budgets that exceed ours greatly attend 2, 3, or even 4 (dunno about 4 but still) regionals. I'd love to have the finiancing to attend multiple regionals. We would have alot more practice driving, coaching, and being an HP before nationals.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

In the past our team has always done two regionals and then nationals. With the introduction of the tiered system this year, our team decided to not try and go to nationals but instead we'd go to three regionals. After winning two regionals, we came to the conclusion that we really should go to nationals, which means that every team member who's going (nearly everyone) has to pay their own way. Those stats for the number of regionals that teams attended are interesting, but of the teams who attended 3-4 regionals, how many went to nationals also?

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

But that's the same arguement smaller market teams have in pro baseball. They'd love to have their budget to get big name players but obviously they are working on a different perspecgtive. It may not be fair but it's not wrong. You can't hold team accountable for using funds that are their to do with as they please.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

Double check your numbers. Adding up, this means that there were 1507 regional "participations" last year. There were 26 regionals, so that means that at your average regional you could expect 57.9 teams. Most regionals couldn't host this many teams if they wanted to. My bet is that you included Nationals in your count.

I don't think any team schedules four regionals.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

each team should be allowed to attend as many regionals as they want. ok, they might be able to spend the money elsewhere, but that is each teams decision. they have to make the financial decision on what the team is going to spend money on. last year, each student on my team had to pay extra money out of their own pocket AGAIN in order to cover the costs to go to natinoals. originally, we werent going to be able to go, but we ended up winning TWO of THREE regionals. in other words, ITS WORTH IT!

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

Since the original numbers are in doubt, I assumed that each of the previous numbers included the championship and came up with these numbers.

-285 teams went to ONE regionals.
-122 teams went to TWO regionals.
-16 teams went to THREE regionals.
edit
That is 577 regional "participations". This means that the teams that participated in more than one regional created a demand for approximately 10 regionals with an average size of 58 teams per regional. If these numbers are correct, then limiting the demand for regional participations by restricting the number of regionals that a team can attend, could reduce the number of regionals by 10. Personally this still sounds like a lot of "regional participations" so I still doubt these numbers. The the point is that limiting the demand, will limit the supply and/or increase the price, two things that I do not want to happen.

edit/ Based on the post below there were 147 "regional participations" which is equal to about 3 regionals.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

This is the excell spreadsheet from which I got all of my numbers. I should mention that I did not put it toghether; but it was provided to me by a reliable source (he recieved a WFA nomination this year :) ).

According to this list, 292 teams attended Championships in Atlanta. Of those 292 teams:

-161 teams attended ONE regional.
-116 teams attended TWO regionals.
-14 teams attended THREE regionals.
-1 team attended FOUR regionals (according to the list, that was Team 141; let me know if that's incorrect).

NOTE: I tried to attach the spreadsheet, but it was waaaaaay too big (1.21 MB).

-Andrew

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

I'm really surprised to see that teams have gone to 4 regionals...
Anyone that has done this.. what has your highschool said about it?
just curious...

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

I also believe that a team should go to as many regionals as possible. MOE travels to one regional and always attends our local one, and also Nats. The experience of just going and staying in a hotel with friends is worth the extra money to travel to a second regional. If a team can make the money they should spend the money.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

I think every team that can afford to go to two regionals should do so - I've seen so many teams that become much, much better, and therefore much, much more inspiring, at their second event.

Some might argue that the inspiration doesn't come from winning matches, but that's not what I'm getting at - I think the real inspiration comes from simply seeing your own robot out on the field, doing what it's supposed to do and doing it well. In 2001, for instance (my last year of high school), my team's robot was way too complex, and we ended up second-last in our division; however, I was the lead designer on a pair of gearboxes that year (the first year we moved away from the drill transmissions), and they worked perfectly. I think that was really a landmark moment for me, when I saw that you really could come up with an idea, push for it to be implemented, make some drawings, build the thing, and have it work well in competition.

Winning is nice (and there's no doubt that a second regional is a competitive advantage), but I think the really important part is seeing that you really can take on a complex, demanding technical challenge and create an effective, working solution. Especially with a complex robot, there's a very good chance that your robot won't work properly at its first competition, and in that case I think spending another $4000 so that the whole team can get a sense of accomplishment from watching their robot work well is the best possible way that money could be spent.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

I do not mean to disagree with almost everyone that voted, but I voted for one regional only. I honestly had no idea that some teams attended 4 regionals. Ok for the rest of this post, I am going to assume that winning the chairman's award would mean more to teams than winning a regional. Some team can barely make it to one regional. They do fundraising and everything. They just cannot get the sponsors that give out the big amounts. What if your team was big enough to BE a sponsor? So many team sponsor FLL teams. Think about what would look better on a Chairman's registration; 3 regional wins or 2 regional wins and sponsoring another team in your area?

Then again, why can't a team spend their money how they wish? It is their money. Go ahead. You earned it with hard work and dedication. But come on guys; do you really need to go to 4 regionals? Even 3 seems excessive. I would love to hear about a team sponsoring one or even multiple teams. It is what FIRST is about. Also, wouldn't it be more fair to only be allowed to attend one regional? Everyone gets the same chance. But finally, let me once again say IT IS YOUR MONEY. YOU EARNED IT. SPEND IT AS YOU SEE FIT.

Re: Should teams be allowed to attend multiple regionals?
 

Excellent point.