Re: YMTC: Bluabot "Descores" Red Tetra
 

Okay, I'm going to say it like this. Update #18, answers a Q&A that MY advisor posted. That same situation happened to us (1089) at the NJ Regional. Yeah, we lost the match because of penalty points that we didn't deserve. It almost happened twice. I'm not bitter, in fact, I'm glad that my advisor asked so that teams in the future DONT go through that. The fact of the matter is, pushing someone to FORCE them to de-score is wrong (and by this I mean the opposing team has NO control over their own robot). Pushing someone and making them de-score because aren't strong enough to stop you? Not wrong.

Yeah, it sucks that you lost the match because you were touching your tetra, but you know what, it happens. At Jersey our robot got stuck in the center goal. We were touching 2 or 3 tetras. We lost the match. Why? We got pushed into the goal and couldn't get ourselves out by the end. Who's fault is that?

Our team's. Getting stuck was unfortunate but it was because of the team's failure to build a robot that didn't have that problem. Sure, we've done what we can to alleviate the problem in the future, but it doesn't matter. The point is. We lost and it was our fault.

I think the same thing applies to this situation.

Re: YMTC: Bluabot "Descores" Red Tetra
 

If you're overpowering their robot to the point where they can't control where they're going, what's the difference?

I agree that if you're too weak to fight back, there's nothing wrong with them pushing you around. But using their robot as a tool to do an action that would normally get you penalized, and is in no way part of proper game play...that's not the way the game is meant to be played, and certainly not GP.

Re: YMTC: Bluabot "Descores" Red Tetra
 

Then "we" should counterract such maneuvers by using our drivetrains to push back. If my drivetrain is too weak to counter a legal pushing maneuver, if I do not wish to run the risk of touching my tetra stacks at the end of a match, then I will keep my robot as far away from my stacked tetras as possible. If I am an offensive juggernaut and am trying to pop that last tetra on a goal, I will be even more wary of a defensive team who knows how to use their arm to block tetra capping. If they use their arm to pin mine up against my stacked tetras when time runs out.....oops!

As long as the pushing team isn't using the goal to rip me to pieces or isn't ramming me from 15 feet away, I'm fine with this rule interpretation.

One thing I've noticed in this thread is the use of so many different words to describe defense - some are more severe than others - push, ram, bump, force, etc. I think a lot of the confusion present in these discussions is a result of using so many different words with different connotations in the rules, related Q/A's, and "why did we do that" explanations in team updates. "Pushing" is used liberally in Team Update #18, but then we see the word "ram" show up in the "why we did that" explanation. That is very confusing. We've got to become more consistent using these words across the board.

Re: YMTC: Bluabot "Descores" Red Tetra
 

According to Team Update #18 this isn't a legal pushing maneuver against a robot that's trying to cap. Why would it be legal against one that's not?

I feel that blocking tetra capping is the way to play defense. If something like a descoring happens during legal blocking, no one should be penalized. I don't like that update 18 makes it dangerous to attempt to stop a robot as they cap...That's a big blow against the 'right kind' of defense. But if they intentionally are moving your arm to make you descore, that's improper.

That is, Triple Play is clearly not supposed to consist of any intentional tetra descoring. The game is about putting tetras on, not taking them off. They've said this a number of times, and the legality of this maneuver doesn't help reach that goal. Rather than what I suggested earlier of putting the blame for the descore on the pushing robot, it'd be much more appropriate to not descore a tetra solely for being touched by a robot of the same alliance, once that tetra has been properly stacked and the stacking robot has backed away.

Re: YMTC: Bluabot "Descores" Red Tetra
 

So Steve, you actually voted for it before you voted against it?

I think you should run for President in '08'. ;)