Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

So there we were on our way to the nearby Walmart store in West Lafayette, Indiana. After searching through the store for some specific items, we proceeded to head to the mall. As we got into the van, we were cracking jokes and having a good time. Genia shifts into reverse.

The van struggles for a second, and I can feel the clutch moving slightly in and slightly out of gear as she give it gas. Shortly following the application of gas, I can hear a steel tooth from the reverse gear get sheared off. Instantly thinking 'oh crap!', I tell her to put the van into park, and then slowly put it into reverse again and slowly release the brake. (I was hoping we could at least back out of the parking spot half way because we were boxed in.) Immediately, in about 2 seconds, I heard ever single tooth on the reverse gear get sheared off and the engine rev up. So, reverse gear is dead.

We got lucky at that time. As we had the van in park and were discussing the options, a family that parked in front of us was leaving. Good, we can drive out of here possibly and make it to an open area to call a tow truck. Genia then put the van into drive very slowly and slowly released the brake and let the clutch pull the van out of the parking spot and turn left, to leave the parking lot. The transmission made it a heroic 50 feet before, in one swift action, every tooth on the transmission was sheared off by the other teeth inside. So there we were, stuck in front of the store that has everything, except new transmissions and a garage. We then had to call her parents to give me a ride back to my dorm and call leave her dad to call a tow truck.

So, I basically got about half an hour or so to hang out with Genia and plot the next plan to take over the world whilst the van sat back and died peacefully after an inspirational fight to make it out of the Walmart parking lot.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Man. My car breaks down, and the first people we tell is Chief. :yikes:

I'd like to thank Mike publicly and profusely for not freaking out when I started to do so. Had it not been for the guy's knowledge of cars and gears and other stuff I would just kinda panickified.

And to think, all I wanted was some brownies...and shoes...but that's for another time.

Any comments guys?

And does anybody wanna explain the whole "clutch" vs "transmission" concept to me while we're discussing it?

- Genia

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Sounds like one of the Chrysler minivans to me. :rolleyes:

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

It's actaully a 2-wheel drive 1996 Dodge Caravan. We had the transmission fixed a few months ago and paid a pretty penny for it, so I'm very sad that it broke down again.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Aha, frolic-ing with Genia I see! ;)
Not that I can really help you in the car department, but I must say, you aren't alone on this one. Thankfully, I don't drive stick, but if I did, I would have done the exact same thing!

In the mean time, I know of one sweet, magenta, two-door, automatic '96 Dodge Neon that you could take off of my hands ;)

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

I am quite nearly speechless :ahh: (good thing I'm typing) :rolleyes:

Yeah, I'd probably end up doing something like that if I had a manual tranny too! Will the van be getting repaired or will it be junked?

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

It's automatic...but I thinik it's 2 wheel-drive...no...maybe it's front-wheel drive...god I'm so confused.

I don't understand my car, and I don't know what we're gonna do wtih it now.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Wait! Automatics don't have clutches. (that i know of) how's that work? Please explain the initial conditions and shifts in more detail.
Hey, I'm the engineering type, I'm interested if it was material defectiveness, or someone not using it in the correct manner. :rolleyes:

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

I wasn't sure if there was a problem when I was driving around before hand, so I was careful with it. I put on the brakes to shift gears, and Mike and I heard a really wierd sound, which he later described as the reverse gear teeth being sheared. I dunno what that means, but it makes sense. So I oh so slowly put it back in park and tried again, and then it died. With much aplomb.

We then shifted into Drive, praying that it would go forward. I made a wide turn nearing the front of the parking lot, and slow as it was, that amount of torque seemed just enough to let the dead teeth kill the other teeth.

And that's what happened as interpreted.

Usage wise, we haven't had this problem before, not when I've driven at least, so it seems to be either a structural or material defect. Maybe I'm wrong.

Edit: To clarify, I was never moving while shifting the gear thingy by the steering wheel.

- Genia

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

automatics do have clutches. they are actually clutch packs, that work just like the clutch in a manual transmission car, except they are controlled by passages in the transmission itself. refer to http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automa...smission11.htm for more info.

Mike

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

The early-1990s Chrysler (and family) automatics tended to fail with regularity, but this deficiency has supposedly been corrected in later models. (So I hope...I had a '92 with no transmission issues over nine years, and the '00 seems to be holding up so far--it's got the heavy-duty transmission cooler, which can only help matters.)

Many of those problems were, however, attributable to the use of the wrong transmission fluid, or not draining and refilling fluid occasionally, or not replacing the transmission fluid filter. Your first step should be to figure out if any of those things were changed when the transmission was serviced. Did the shop use Dexron fluid? If they did, you might consider blaming them. The transmission needs ATF+3, and has been widely reported to die horribly if it isn't supplied.

As for the automatic vs. manual thing, the "P" position is a giveaway (the manual wouldn't have it), as is the "slowly released the brake" portion of the anecdote (manuals don't creep like automatics, thanks to their lack of a torque converter). But the clutch packs in an automatic (which engage gearsets, rather than the engine output) work a little differently than you might suspect; they basically lock planetaries together to change the gear ratio at the driveshaft (or in this case, the front axle).

By the way, Eugenia, FWD is 2WD, which is what you've got. You'd easily be able to tell if it were an AWD version by the decals on the tailgate (in addition to the obvious mechanical differences, like a driveshaft sprouting from the transaxle, or the smaller gas tank).

Edit: I just realized, you could also have a 3-speed, in which case, some of this may not apply; all my experience is with the 4-speed automatic.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Yeah, I didn't really know all that much about car tranny's to this point. :p Just the very basics. Thanks! *Rep*

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Here goes some of my hard-earned (and expensive) education (I took two transmission classes last semester):

Tristan has given the best and most complete answer so far. Clutch packs are used to lock planetary gears which control the output ratio and rotational direction of the tranny. There are also bands in the transmission that have more control than the clutch packs (there are usually 3-4 bands and 1-2 clutch packs in a 3 or 4 speed automatic). The bands wrap around a large drum that is connected to part of the planetary set. The bands are tightened to lock a certain drum and therefore lock a certain gear in the planetary.

I would highly doubt that the gears in a automatic sheered off. The bands and clutches should slip before the integrity of a gear is compromised. And there is not much room inside the tranny, especially where the planetaries are, so if one tooth breaks, it doesn't have room to move and would affect the other teeth greatly.

There is no reverse gear in an automatic transmission. Reverse is achieved by locking one of the planetaries in a way such that it reverses the direction of rotation (usually locking a sun gear). The movement is transferred through multiple planetaries in most automatic transmissions until it reaches the higher gears. The same planetary set used for reverse would also be used for first gear and would affect the driving accordingly.

From what was described, I would guess that your problem is in the differential and not the transmission, but it could be either. The differential on FWD cars is technically part of the transmission, but acts separately.

If anything I said didn't make sense, feel free to ask questions.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Oh man I cant believe you fell for that one

"The car wont go- guess were stuck here"

"oH no - were out of gas......"

"I think the flux capacitor is clogged"

or back 150 years ago, "sorry dear, the horse has come down with a bad case of the jitters, we better stop here for a while"

:^)

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

If the van is FWD then there is no transfer case. Have you tried putting it in 2nd and driving it?

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

I meant differential. I'll edit my previous post.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

I think we are beyond the casual testing phase, and into the tranny shop saying how much a rebuilt transmission will be. Then comes the decision on is it worth it to repair it. Its fun.

Really.

:(

Except not really.

Wetzel

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Will it even get into second, being an automatic? I don't think that the shift program will allow this, no matter what the gearshift indicates.

Maybe in some sort of diagnostic mode?

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Actually, depending on how the car/tranny reacts in different gear selections, you can usually figure out what is wrong inside the tranny without taking it apart. But you need a chart/info specific to the transmission to know which bands and clutches are engaged in each gear selection.

And yes, she should be able to put it in second.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Most automatics that have a "2" gear will "lock" it in second so you can opt out of the torque of first in slippery conditions.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

we couldnt shift it into any gear without getting the same result. all of the teeth on the planetaries were probably sheared off. just shifting into a new gear was a challenge. i think those teeth just clogged it all up.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Heh...

My kind of thread. Time for me to chime in here...

1. You CAN NOT over ride the gear selection - even when you selector says 3, 2-1. This just gives you no torque converter lockup in 3 and in 1-2 it gives you engine compression braking. When you are going around 35 - put it in "1" and watch you start to slow down a lot and your engine revvs up. This is meant to help save brakes during mountain travel.

2. If you have ever put in Mercron/Dextron transmission fluid in a Chrysler vehicle - you just screwed it. Due to the different additives/viscosities of the fluids - this will be a ticking time bomb. Chrysler is very finicky... (All the Jeep freaks out there - the Asin-Warner 4 [AW-4] is the ONLY EXCEPTION. Use Dextron/Mercron for that)

3. You have the 4-speed transmission. Only the 3-speed was used in the Neons (A poor choice at that)

4. Where did you just have the transmission serviced and how long ago? You should have some sort of warranty - and I'd complain till high heaven. That is total BS if they do nothing.

5. I bet you just burnt up a clutch pack - I still have yet to see any regular street vehicle break the planetary gear sets.

6. The weak point in most Chryslers are the transmissions (In the FWD vehicles) Chrysler hasn't designed a good transmission for their FWD vehicles IMHO. As much as I'd hate to say this - You're better off getting a Chevrolet Venture or a Ford Windstar. You have the 3.0 V-6? Did you know that is just a Mitsubishi motor with a Chrysler intake?

I, my self, have become a GM man. What they have done in the past is far superior to the imports, Ford and Chrysler. I would like to get a hold of a few new Chryslers and see how they have revamped their stuff though...

I think that is good for now. Happy motoring and hope you can get your problem fixed ASAP! :)

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

she had the transmission serviced about 3 months ago for a ridiculous amount of money to fix some problem, her parents couldnt remember what it was. so i am assuming it has something to do with the clutch.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

It really sounds like Matt has got the closest to a correct diagnosis. I got rid of my 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan last summer. The Chrysler transmissions are not as good as competitors which is pretty ironic since Chrysler was the first big guy to put automatics in cars in the fifties and they were great then. From the early 90's on, Chrysler trannies were notorious for leaks which would lead to a variety of problems if the fluids were not checked regularly. The trannie does have what Mopar (Chrysler) calls the "limp home" mode. The electronically shifted transmission shifts to second gear and holds it so that you can get the car somewhere safe or home if you are close. You didn't mention if "Park" worked so I am guessing it didn't, that would point to something downstream from the park gear lock. If park didn't work and the trans wasn't in second and you didn't say that any lights were on, the obvious first place to look is the CVC joints. One side going out(there are two), would give many of the symptoms described. Unless you have the optional traction control transmission, aplying the gas would get you nowhere. If both of those are OK then the transaxle is the next logical place to look and that is part of the transmission. It lives on the back side of the transmission. In either case, the people who replaced or worked on the transmission are the next place to visit. I wish there was better news, Genia, but it doesn't sound like it.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Heh...broken planetaries...saw a few of those during my transmission classes, however, they still had all the gear teeth on them. The planetaries are one of the stronger parts of the tranny, but they aren't invincible.

I would take a Chrysler minivan over the Windstar any day. The trannies they put in it won't last 70,000 miles. And they are also picky about using ATF. Out of American companies, I would say that GM currently has the best transmissions, but I will diverge from American cars to say that some of the Japanese transmissions are far better than anything offered by an American car.

I have a Chrysler transmission though and I am very happy with it (only wish it was a four speed). They made things a lot better back in the 60's :D. The only thing wrong with the tranny after 37 years of driving is that the 2nd gear blocker ring is starting to wear out, so it doesn't shift into 2nd so smooth anymore.

Re: Genia and Mike's Walmart Frolic Gone Wrong
 

Btt.

Any fix for the problem yet? I kinda want to know how this tuned out!