Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

Where are you ordering your modules from? I can't find it online.

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

send an email to info@vexlabs.com with your address and a daytime telephone number and tell them you wish to buy a prototype programmer. i did this last week on monday morning, received a call a couple of hours later, gave them my credit card info and had the board in my hot little hands friday afternoon. what you will receive is a small board with an rs232 level converter and an 8 pin pic microcontroller, an rj-11 connector at one end and a db9 connector at the other. they include an rs-232 cable, a 6 conductor phone cord and the c-bot disk, (mplab, mcc18 and ifloader), that is apparently used in first programming. what you don't get is a pretty plastic cover for the programmer and the visual programming environment.

alas, i'm still trying to locate a driver for my usb to serial converter.

oh, yeah, $99.00 plus about $8.00 for the ups guy.

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

The work done to make a programmer is not wasted, Think about having multiple vex controllers or a laptop commanding the vex controller (similar to the botball GameBoy Xport)

Therefore a converter from Db9 -12V to +12V (CMOS) with a max232 converting to 0-5V TTL Phone Jack to the Serial Port is very useful.

According to the Vex people (IFI) , everything with Kevin Watson's serial driver should work similar to the FIRST controller. Therefore, if someone could establish basic serial communication with the controller, new inventions are bound to come.

~Andrew Lynch

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

The VEX programming module will be available in August 2005. You can check out other VEX products or connect with other VEX users at www.vexrobotics.com

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

thanks for the pinout , but still i don't know which is RTC and which is CTS ?

another thing is i will connect a bluetooth module to the microcontroller and i will connect it to the serial of the microcontroller , so i know which pins to connect on both except for the +5v on the microcontroller , does it mean that i will get external voltage source ( 5v ) and connect it to pin 5 and not connecting the batteries to the microcontroller ?

thx fowlerm for the useful info .

if anyone wants to take a look at the bluetooth module i'm connecting ,, here it is BlueTooth v1.2 Stamp Module Data Sheet

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

rtc and cts are not connected. the serial interface is three wires only, tx, rx and ground. you'll need the +5v to power the bluetooth. if you're trying to build a programmer, you may not have much luck. i tried using a max232, a handful of capacitors and a push button and couldn't get anything going. the programmer that vexlabs is selling has an 8 pin pic on it. if you just want bluetooth for serial coms between a pc and the robot you ought to be okay. probably just need to remember to cross rx and tx.

good luck.

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

u mean get external voltage source and connect it to pin 5 of the serial input to power the bluetooth module ? Or this pin is an output 5v pin which must be connected to the VDD pin of the bluetooth module ?
this is strange , because the bluetooth has it's voltage input pin which takes 3.3v so i don't think this 5v pin is for the module .

something else about RTS and CTS ... fowlerm posted : " The other pins on the Vex's serial port are control lines RTS and CTS "
so if pin 4 and pin 6 are not rts and cts , then what are they ? and where should i connect the rts and cts of my module ?

Note : i just want bluetooth for serial coms between a pc and the robot

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

I've been using this Bluetooth module with success.

-Kevin

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

That was my initial thought, I now know that the following pinout is correct:

1 - RJ3 on the master uP
2 - +5v
3 - RB0 the master uP
4 - Gnd
5 - Rx for UART 1 on the user uP
6 - Tx for UART 1 on the user uP

The numbers correspond to the numbers printed on the Vex Controller's PCB.

As far as RTS and CTS for your module, they are only used for hardware flow control. If you don't want hardware flow control I believe you can simply connect the RTS pin to the CTS pin to have the module operate without flow control. I know this is true for the module Kevin Watson posted.

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

ok thx fowlerm for the useful info again .

so now i will not use cts and rts , and i will ignore the rb0 and rj3 pins on the serial of the microcontroller .
one last thing remaining is the +5v pin on the serial of the microcontroller , shall i connect this pin to the voltage input pin of the bluetooth module ? or shall i connect external voltage source ( 5v ) to this pin ?

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

Has anyone figured out what the PIC on the programming module does? If it's in a socket, maybe someone can put it in a standalone programmer and find out if the code is read protected. If it's not read protected, then we should be able to figure out what it is very quickly.

Or maybe someone can put up a schematic of the module and we can make an educated guess about what it does.

I'd do it myself, but I don't have access to one. Actually...someone on our team was assigned to figure out how to program the thing, so maybe we do have one...

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

it's a wee little surface mount thingy so small that i needed a magnifying glass and had to hold it just so to the light in order to be able to tell that it was a pic at all. this puppy will never be socketed.

if one had enough serial ports one could watch what goes in and compare it to what goes out. i figure the button just causes the master controller on the vex to reset the user controller and kick it into a bootloader. can't imagine what goes on that would require another pic in the middle unless it's just a form of obfuscation to confuse things enough so radio shack can sell us programmers.

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

aaaaaaaaaa! I tried to order a prototype module, but 1, they don't have any for usb, and 2 they don't work with macs. I have a powerbook that i bought with the robot to hook up to control the robot. Now I feel like I wasted 300 bucks on a fancy modifiable remote controlled car. They should really consider the possibility of people wanting to control the robot with laptops or linux boards. This i think would produce an even greater market for radioshack. I thought it was a handy device that would take care of all the motor and sensor controls easily for me. Help me out. Is there a way i can get this to work without the programming module? Does anyone really have a working module that they made? And do you think it would work for mac osx?

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

you're really going to need a windows system, or a linux box running wine, because the compiler is windows only. i run linux most of the time, but have a windows partition on my laptop where i've installed mplab, mcc18 and the ifiloader. i run the programmer through a usb to serial converter that cost around 20 bucks. tried to build a programmer myself, but gave up and got the prototype from vexlabs. there's a little pic on the programmer in addition to the rs232 level converter you'd expect. like i said, works great, except for the $99 hole in my wallet and that i have to boot windows to run the compiler.

Re: how to build a VEX programming module
 

Well i also have a desctop PC. Perhapse I can program the robot with the PC and control it with my powerbook later? I have a usb to serial converter that works for both PC and mac. I think that's what i'll end up doing. I have an m232 converter, so i think i could send signals to the serial port with the powerbook if I program the the controller to read from the serial port. Otherwise I was wondering if I could change the rx1 and 2 ports to read a serial signal instead of the PWM signal it is currently programmed to read. Anyone done anything with this or have any comments?