Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I while ago, I was curious about which state really has the most FRC teams per capita. We all know California, Michigan, and New York all have tons of teams, but who really has the most? Before we all go wild trying to create new teams for Dean's homework, we must first know where to create them. So, here is a list of all 50 states + Puerto Rico + Washington D.C. with the teams per capita. (I used 2004 U.S. Census data for state populations)

Ranked in order from most teams per capita to least:

Ranking / State / Teams Per Capita* (in thousands)

1. New Hampshire - 54.1
2. North Dakota - 105. 7
3. Michigan - 108.7
4. Connecticut - 125.1
5. Virginia - 135.6
6. Alaska - 163.9
7. Washington D.C. - 177.8
8. South Carolina - 182.5
9. Montana - 185.4
10. New Jersey - 189.1
11. Colorado - 209.2
12. New York - 216.0
13. Massachusetts - 221.3
14. Kansas - 248.7
15. Oregon - 256.8
16. South Dakota - 256.9
17. Nevada - 291.9
18. Indiana - 297.0
19. Pennsylvania - 302.6
20. Hawaii - 315.7
21. Maine - 329.3
22. Arizona - 337.9
23. Ohio - 347.2
24. Rhode Island - 360.2
25. California - 362.6
26. Wisconsin - 367.3
27. Georgia - 367.9
28. Maryland - 397.0
29. Florida - 404.6
30. Missouri - 411.0
31. Washington - 413.6
32. Delaware - 415.2
33. Wyoming - 506.5
34. Mississippi - 580.6
35. West Virginia - 605.2
36. Vermont - 621.4
37. Idaho - 696.6
38. Oklahoma - 704.7
39. Alabama - 755.0
NATIONAL AVERAGE: 770.7
40. Texas - 803.2
41. Louisiana - 903.2
42. New Mexico - 951.6
43. Illinois - 978.0
44. North Carolina - 1067.7
45. Arkansas - 1376.3
46. Iowa - 1477.2
47. Utah - 2389.0
48. Tennessee - 2950.5
49. Puerto Rico - 3894.9
50. Kentucky - 4145.9
51. Minnesota - 5101.0
52. Nebraska - has no teams

*The teams per capita represents the number of people in each state/area per each FIRST team.

What this data means:
The higher a particular state is on the list, the more teams is has, per its population. The lower a particular state is on this list, is the less teams per capita it has. These are the states where we should be trying hard to get new FIRST teams. Although it is great that states like California have almost a hundred teams, or New Hampshire to have to most teams per capita, it is states like Minnesota and Nebraska that need more teams.

FYI: If every state had as many teams per capita as New Hampshire does, then the number of FRC teams would jump five-fold; there would be 5497 teams in the United States!

Kudos to the top states on a job well done for spreading FIRST! For all the rest - what are ya waiting for? Let's do our homework and spread FIRST! :cool:

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

This is a very interesting list.

Someone needs to start a Nebraskan team. Maybe we need to start hunting down volunteers for that... ;)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Wow, someone needs to start a Nebraska team! And yay for NJ being #10. That's not too bad :)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Anyone want to create a similar list for Canadian Provinces?

World Countries?

:)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

WOOHOO!! WE'RE NOT DEAD LAST IN SOMETHING!!!

(I'm sorry, I had to gloat for a minute. Usually when South Carolina isn't in dead last for something, it's because we're at the top of some bad list. So hearing that we're one of the top ten when it comes to FIRST teams per capita, I get the warm-fuzzies.)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Florida is above average in something!! wow! weeeee yay for us and south carolina!!

well okies so we are good at somethings in this state still can't vote right and bad in education but that's okay!!

this is a cool listing of info though!! thanks for providing it...

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

New Hampshire.

Number one in more then just the national primary!

Live free or die,
Andy A.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

By request, here is the rest of the FIRST World:

Ranking / Providence/Country / Teams per Capita (in thousands)

CANADA:
1. Ontario - 203.8
Canada Average - 537.8
2. New Brunswick - 729.5
3. British Columbia - 2050.0
4. Alberta - 2974.8
5. Quebec - 7237.5
6. Newfoundland - zero teams
7. Prince Edward Island - zero teams
8. Nova Scotia - zero teams
9. Manitoba - zero teams
10. Saskatchewan - zero teams
11. Yukon* - zero teams
12. Northwest Territories* - zero teams
13. Nunavut* - zero teams

*Each of these providences have a population less than 40,000.

WORLD:
1. Israel - 523.1
2. Canada - 537.8
3. United States - 770.7
4. Ecuador - 6681.9
5. United Kingdom - 30,220.7
6. Brazil - 31,018.8
7. Mexico - 53,101.5

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Wow, that was fast.

Thank you :)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

This is a great list.

For clarity, though, you have provided a list of capita per team, not teams per capita. If I understand, you divided the population by the number of teams (population / # of teams).

Teams per capita would be # of teams / polulation.

(Don't like to be picky, but you would lose some points on a math or stats test. :) )

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Way to go Mississippi big 34 baby.
That number suprised me I thought it would be lower with only 5 Teams.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

This is some pretty interesting data. NH representin'!!!! ;-) I was kinda surprised to see NH on the top of the list but it makes sense we're a small state with lots of teams so...go NH. I think this thread makes some good points particularly that it wouldn't hurt the community to get smart about creating teams this post certainly helps. Dean just keeps saying more teams more teams more teams but what this thread makes clear is what does that mean?? If the goal of FIRST is to reach as many kids as possible then it doesn't matter if we create 500 more teams in CA or Michigan, that's important certainly, but there are a lot of kids in some of the states on the bottom of the list missing out. I know that when I look back on my HS FIRST career and think about the reasons why I stay close to the program even now is that when I was on a team in HS it was probably one of the best experiences of my life. I think we could all agree that it is important that as many kids as possible get to experience that.

Justin

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

It's good to see CT (da CUTT or something of that nature) ranked high in a list besides the "Cost of living" one...

-Alex Pelan is extremely glad he doesn't have to pay taxes.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

We are currently working on getting Lincoln High School in Lincoln Nebraska into FIRST. I think there are several other teams looking for to start Nebraska teams.. who knows maybe they will start several next year... I am considering visiting lincoln high this summer as my uncle manages the u of nebraska bookstore. If I do take the the trip I will try and meet with the principal about FIRST, and if we have our VEX robot buy then, take that with me to show him what its all about. So there is some work being done, and I have heard some other teams mention possible work so lets get our 50th state to join FIRST and then look beyond into countries all over this world.

Nate

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

You may wish to look at the other thread started last fall concerning number of teams per square mile. I think Connecticut ranked near the top in that listing as well. Sustaining teams becomes an issue when you have a high number of teams in a small geographical area, all competing for the same funding and mentorship. Even simple things like trying to reserve flights for groups out of the same airport on the same days to go to Atlanta become potential problems!

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Aw, heck, I don't really care much about this, but teams per unit of area is a pretty poor metric. New York City or LA/Orange County could have ten times the teams per unit area of Alaska and still have an infinitely easier time finding resources. The most useful measure would probably be some measure of economic strength divided by number of teams. Connecticut, for example, has a much larger economy than Montana, which is about a zillion times larger geographically.

I'll leave the details as an exercise for the students. :]

As for airport scheduling, the larger the economic base, the better served you will be for airports. In Connecticut, this might be a problem if you are all trying to fly out of Hartford, but you could always fly out of La Guardia or JFK, or even Logan.

At least you have major airports handy. Consider the plight of teams in places like Bellingham, Washington, Coos Bay, Oregon, or Red Bluff, California. All of them have to schedule trips just to get to an airport capable of getting a connection through to Atlanta. (Yes, I know. Coos Bay has an airport. To fly to Atlanta they would fly to Portland, and then take a plane which would probably have to make a stop along the way. It's probably a 12-hour trip. I don't think there is a place in New England where a major airport takes longer to get to than driving from Bellingham to SeaTac. You easterners just don't understand distance...) (To not just beat a dead horse, but to beat it and then blow it up -- there are also a lot more choices for flights from major airports than small ones. There might only be one team in Helena, Montana, as a made-up example, but there might only be two flights a day out of there to a hub with connections to Atlanta.)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

True, true. But contrary to what some people believe, many CT teams are located in rural areas (yes we have them) and the ones in urban areas ARE competing for the same dollars and mentors. Ask any of the several teams in the state who are scrambling to stay alive. (Does everyone in the country think Connecticut is full of millionaires? I've lived here for over 30 years and haven't met one yet - where are they hiding? :) )

Yes, we have access to nearby major airports, but that would necessitate another $1200 or more spent on bus transfers. Because there are only a few flights that directly fly to Atlanta from Hartford each day (it's weird), it means they book up very quickly and cannot accomodate groups. So we fly to Chicago or Detroit, then to Atlanta. Expensive and it takes a while - we were at the airport at 6:30 a.m. and arrived at the hotel after 5:30p.m. Or we fly a day ahead and come home a day late - more hotel costs, food costs, more school boards to approve the trip, etc. Or we split up the group. We never thought flying to Atlanta would be so expensive and so difficult.

I guess the bottom line is that there are difficulties encountered no matter if you are in a small state (geographical or population) or a large one.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I was thinking about setting the number of teams in a state vs. certain NAICS or SIC code percentages within the state (NAICS= North American Industry Classification System, SIC = Standard Industrial Classification, both define all industry types into numerical code)....but I couldnt decide on which code to use.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Haha, California is smack in the middle! :)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Ranking / State / Teams Per Capita* (in thousands)

1. New Hampshire - 54.1
2. North Dakota - 105. 7
3. Michigan - 108.7
4. Connecticut - 125.1
5. Virginia - 135.6
6. Alaska - 163.9
7. Washington D.C. - 177.8
8. South Carolina - 182.5
9. Montana - 185.4
10. New Jersey - 189.1
11. Colorado - 209.2
12. New York - 216.0
13. Massachusetts - 221.3
14. Kansas - 248.7
15. Oregon - 256.8
16. South Dakota - 256.9
17. Nevada - 291.9
18. Indiana - 297.0
19. Pennsylvania - 302.6
20. Hawaii - 315.7
21. Maine - 329.3
22. Arizona - 337.9
23. Ohio - 347.2
24. Rhode Island - 360.2
25. California - 362.6
26. Wisconsin - 367.3
27. Georgia - 367.9
28. Maryland - 397.0
29. Florida - 404.6
30. Missouri - 411.0
31. Washington - 413.6
32. Delaware - 415.2
33. Wyoming - 506.5
34. Mississippi - 580.6
35. West Virginia - 605.2
36. Vermont - 621.4
37. Idaho - 696.6
38. Oklahoma - 704.7
39. Alabama - 755.0
NATIONAL AVERAGE: 770.7
40. Texas - 803.2
41. Louisiana - 903.2
42. New Mexico - 951.6
43. Illinois - 978.0

44. Iowa - 981.4

45. North Carolina - 1067.7
46. Arkansas - 1376.3
47. Utah - 2389.0
48. Tennessee - 2950.5
49. Puerto Rico - 3894.9
50. Kentucky - 4145.9
51. Minnesota - 5101.0
52. Nebraska - has no teams


2,954,451 people/ ( 3 teams ) = 981354

Sticking up for Iowa!

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I'm sorry I had that wrong! To find the number of teams per state, I used the Triple Play booklet that was handed out to teams at the regionals, and the map on it only showed two teams in Iowa. :confused:

Thanks for the correction!

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

uhh.. yea./.ontario has the most teams that i know of

but if someoen has all the data.. it would be nice if someone made a chart.. if someone does.. please pm me.. thank you..,

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I love how North Dakota only has 6 teams (according to the map on the FIRST site) yet they're #2 on the list...Tells ya something about the population of ND, doesn't it? :D

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Ummm . . . They live so far apart you have to drive two days to borrow a cup of sugar from the neighbors? :p

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

yea.. we looked at flying.. but when you figure adding in the bus transport to the airport.. then the bus rental on the other side to go from hotel to venue.. it got crzy.. . so we decided wed drive the 19hours :D

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Kansas is number 14, not bad. Well, we boring Kansans have to find something to do with our time, lol. Why not dedicate it to FIRST? Hmm....I'm thinking I need to make some friends in Nebraska...Kansas is right under them geographically, so it's not that far... :D

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

YAY :cool: MICHIGAN is #3 :ahh: !

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Yay!!!!!!
I'm with you pelan, dam glad i dont have to pay taxes :D
although we our capital is the 7th most dangerous city :ahh:

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I'd just like to remind everyone that these were the stats for the 2005 competition. After the regionals are over I might complile a similar list for teams in the 2006 season. :)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

We're #44 :(
Which is weird since #5 is our neighbor to the north and #8 is to the south, and we have a decent high tech industry. (Atleast in RTP) As well as several top schools. (Duke and UNC-Ch)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

wow, dude. Where'd you get the idea to compile all this data (and the know-how)?

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

This is very interesting, but, at a meeting that the HOT Team seniors attended last Wednesday, Dean Kamen indicated that the number of schools in the state that has access to FIRST teams is the most important metric. This year Michigan has 100 FRC teams, but more importantly 25% of the schools in Michigan have access to a FRC team. This is the highest percentage in the US (according to Dean). He challenged Governor Granholm to tell governors from other states to become a FIRST supporter. FIRST has scheduled a meeting with Governor Granholm to find a way to make FIRST accessible to more teams in Michigan. Dean said that this may become an award at the Championship. If that is true Michigan should win this year. But most importantly, it doesn't matter where a team is from just as long as there is a team where kids can be inspired. Our goal should be to keep current teams functioning and add new teams as we can. Here's to a great year!

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

YES Georgia is finally not near the bottom of a list that has something remotely to do with education.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I was feeling geeky again during lunch, and decided to check on FRC registration totals. As of this morning, 98 teams from Michigan have registered for their first regional. New York is second with 86, and California is third with 85.

In keeping with the original topic of this thread, I went to the US Census site and got state-by-state population figures for 2005, then used these to calculate the number of teams per million residents. I only did the calculation for states with at least 18 FRC teams registered as of this morning; these states account for 759 teams, which is 81% of the teams registered.

And the rankings are:

1 NH has 26 registered teams, which is 20.3 teams per million residents.
2 MI has 98 registered teams, which is 10.0 teams per million residents.
3 CT has 28 registered teams, which is 8.4 teams per million residents.
4 KS has 20 registered teams, which is 7.2 teams per million residents.
5 VA has 50 registered teams, which is 6.8 teams per million residents.
6 MO has 38 registered teams, which is 6.6 teams per million residents.
7 MA has 38 registered teams, which is 6.0 teams per million residents.
8 NY has 86 registered teams, which is 4.7 teams per million residents.
9 CO has 20 registered teams, which is 4.5 teams per million residents.
10 NJ has 37 registered teams, which is 4.4 teams per million residents.
11 WI has 19 registered teams, which is 3.5 teams per million residents.
12 IN has 20 registered teams, which is 3.2 teams per million residents.
13 PA has 35 registered teams, which is 2.8 teams per million residents.
14 CA has 85 registered teams, which is 2.5 teams per million residents.
15 FL has 40 registered teams, which is 2.5 teams per million residents.
16 GA has 18 registered teams, which is 2.1 teams per million residents.
17 OH has 23 registered teams, which is 2.0 teams per million residents.
18 IL has 23 registered teams, which is 1.9 teams per million residents.
19 TX has 19 registered teams, which is 0.9 teams per million residents.

[Note: total registration as of twenty minutes ago is 942 teams, up from 937 this morning and 929 at 5pm CDT yesterday. So all the statistics in this post are going to be changing...]

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Are you going to update your statistics on a regular basis? Can you calculate a US average for us? To me you are certainly welcome to demonstrate your geekiness on a regular basis! :)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Yeah New Hampshire!

#1!!

:D :D :D

I don't it helps that the program originated here at all.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Richard, you are da man.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Richard again." ... darnit.

Thanks for this,
Andy

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I don't know about a regular basis, but it seems appropriate to do this analysis again late tomorrow night, just before 2nd regional registration opens. Depending on how the Cards are doing in Game 4 of the Series, I may get to it by midnight or thereabouts.

It also seems appropriate to do the analysis again after registration closes on the first of December. Those will be the really important totals. These preliminary numbers mostly indicate which teams have raised enough money to register early and/or for their preferred events.

As for a US average, I think that including all the states would create some skewed looking results, due to sensitive dependence on small changes in the number of teams. Even so, a few other states should have been included; in the updated analysis below I have added South Carolina, Arizona, Washington, Oregon, and Oklahoma. I have also tried to correct my most egregious error -- omitting the Canadian province of Ontario, which is of course an FRC powerhouse with 36 teams and our largest regional competition! With these additions the total now accounts for 826 teams, which is 88% of the teams registered.

The updated results:

1 NH has 26 registered teams, which is 20.3 teams per million residents.
2 MI has 98 registered teams, which is 10.0 teams per million residents.
3 CT has 28 registered teams, which is 8.4 teams per million residents.
4 KS has 20 registered teams, which is 7.2 teams per million residents.
5 VA has 50 registered teams, which is 6.8 teams per million residents.
6 MO has 38 registered teams, which is 6.6 teams per million residents.
7 MA has 38 registered teams, which is 6.0 teams per million residents.
8 NY has 86 registered teams, which is 4.7 teams per million residents.
9 CO has 20 registered teams, which is 4.5 teams per million residents.
10 NJ has 37 registered teams, which is 4.4 teams per million residents.
11 SC has 17 registered teams, which is 4.2 teams per million residents.
12 OR has 13 registered teams, which is 3.6 teams per million residents.
13 WI has 19 registered teams, which is 3.5 teams per million residents.
14 IN has 20 registered teams, which is 3.2 teams per million residents.
15 OK has 10 registered teams, which is 2.9 teams per million residents.
16 PA has 35 registered teams, which is 2.8 teams per million residents.
17 ON has 36 registered teams, which is 2.8 teams per million residents.
18 AZ has 14 registered teams, which is 2.7 teams per million residents.
19 CA has 85 registered teams, which is 2.5 teams per million residents.
20 FL has 40 registered teams, which is 2.5 teams per million residents.
21 GA has 18 registered teams, which is 2.1 teams per million residents.
22 WA has 13 registered teams, which is 2.1 teams per million residents.
23 OH has 23 registered teams, which is 2.0 teams per million residents.
24 IL has 23 registered teams, which is 1.9 teams per million residents.
25 TX has 19 registered teams, which is 0.9 teams per million residents.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Indiana has 21 teams... thank you very much ( :D keep getting bumped higher and higher)
btw, this data is very interesting.

How about major judged awards/competitions (at nationals... no regionals) won per state? I bet that would jumble things up quite a bit (knowing hammond would add a bunch)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I was only counting teams that are actually registered for a 2007 FRC event, so the Indiana count really is 20 teams as of this morning. However, this could and probably will change very soon.

South Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, and Florida have all registered more teams since my last update. And somehow I left out Maryland. :o

As suggested earlier, I will recalculate based on registration totals as of late tonight, just before 2nd regional registration opens.

BTW, total registration as of this writing is 951 teams, up nine from yesterday afternoon. 902 of these are based in the US, and a recent news item noted that the US population has passed the 300 million mark. So the US average is about three teams per million residents.

And we also reached a milestone this morning; team numbers have reached the 2100 mark with the addition of a rookie team from Port St. Lucie, FL.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

I imagine a lot of the missing teams are those on the invisible wait lists for Manchester, Richmond, Orlando, Ypsilanti, Detroit, Kansas City, San Jose, San Diego, Philadelphia, and Hempstead. Ten Regionals sold out this year as compared to the six last year at this same time. Accounting for up to ten or so reserved waiting list slots for each of those sold out.
SBPLI for instance has 8 teams that are registered but that aren't visible yet.

These won't show up to give us final numbers until sometime after the December 1st registration close.

P.S.
Here's a twist on Richard's statistics. Essentially, the same numbers just in a different light. For a minimum $10,000 investment per team this is how much per person it would cost state-by-state:
1 NH $0.20
2 MI $0.10
3 CT $0.08
4KS $0.07
5 VA $0.07
6 MO $0.07
7 MA $0.06
8 NY $0.05
9 CO $0.05
10 NJ $0.04
11 SC $0.04
12 OR $0.04
13 WI $0.04
14 IN $0.03
15 OK $0.03
16 PA $0.03
17 ON $0.03
18 AZ $0.03
19 CA $0.03
20 FL $0.03
21 GA $0.02
22 WA $0.02
23 OH $0.02
24 IL $0.02
25 TX $0.01

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Last year the Tel Aviv Regional had 26 teams, for a ratio of 4.1 teams/million population....this year the goal for FIRST Israel is 36 teams, or 5.7 teams per million!

Jon Mittelman
Mentor
Lead Inspector, Tel Aviv Regional 2006
Judge, Tel Aviv Regional 2006

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Gah...I already spent way more than that buying supplies for an outreach event... *grumble grumble* ;)

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Up to 978 now. Since 2nd regional registration opens tomorrow at noon Eastern Time, I'll wait until just before then to recalculate teams-per-million-residents (TPMR) statistics. I had expected to see more teams by now -- but as Mark pointed out, many are probably still going to remain 'invisible' until after registration closes December 1st.

Although US average TPMR is running just a little over three right now, we should expect this figure to climb closer to four when all registered teams can be counted.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Total registration is now up to 982 teams, with 2nd regional registration trying to begin. :rolleyes:

US average is up to 3.1 teams-per-million-residents (TPMR). The updated states rankings by TPMR:

Rank / State / Teams / TPMR
1 / NH / 26 / 20.3
2 / MI / 100 / 10.2
3 / CT / 29 / 8.7
4 / MA / 48 / 7.6
5 / VA / 54 / 7.4
6 / KS / 20 / 7.2
7 / MO / 39 / 6.8
8 / NY / 90 / 4.9
9 / CO / 22 / 4.9
10 / SC / 18 / 4.5
11 / NJ / 37 / 4.4
12 / OR / 13 / 3.6
13 / WI / 19 / 3.5
14 / MD / 18 / 3.3
15 / AZ / 17 / 3.3
16 / IN / 20 / 3.2
17 / ON / 38 / 3.0
18 / OK / 10 / 2.9
19 / PA / 35 / 2.8
20 / GA / 22 / 2.6
21 / CA / 88 / 2.6
22 / FL / 41 / 2.5
23 / OH / 24 / 2.1
24 / WA / 13 / 2.1
25 / IL / 24 / 2.0
26 / TX / 19 / 0.9

These 25 US states plus Ontario account for 884 teams, which is 90% of the total.

Massachusetts has moved up a few spots with 10 additional registrations since my last calculation. Maryland is now on the list, as it should have been earlier (my bad).

And Michigan has reached the 100 team mark. New York and California are probably not far behind. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, these figures (1) are preliminary, and (2) do not include 'invisible' teams that we will know about after December 1st.

Re: Most FIRST teams per capita
 

Ok, so who wants to be a real geek and compute the highest and lowest TOTAL DISTANCES DRIVEN to a regional event by the sum of all the teams that attended last year.

namely, which regional only attracted local teams and which regional was worthy of driving a long distance?

I started another thread
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=49494
that uses this really cool geocoding to calculate straight line distances between two GPS data points.....not true driving distance, but approximate.

These are all very interesting stats re: how to get MORE schools in rural areas involved, etc.