Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

I agree with Beth. I have been in FIRST for 3 years and though I regret not joining the team in grade 9, there is nothing I can do about it now. However, FIRST affects people in all different ways. For some, it can change their lives, as it definitely has mine and the majority of the frequent posters on CD. But, there are so many other FIRST participants who haven't been affected in this way. And some of these may have been involved for their entire high school career. So while a 4-year pin is a great idea, I don't think it would suit everyone. Quality not quantity. I for sure would be extremely jealous of those who do get the 4 year pin.

And just to be difficult .. what if you spend more than 4 years in high school ??

As much as I love my participation medals, I will agree with this. Operator Badges mean a lot to me and I am so proud to say that for the last two years I have been part of the drive team.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

Should it be a 4-year pin, or an "every year possible" pin. People move in and out of high schools that have the program, rookie teams forms, veteran teams disband. Many people don't get the ability to be a member of a team for 4 years. That would be totally unfair to them for their acheivments not to be recognized as well.

Re: Does FIRST give out to many awards? (Opinion)
 

we should give awards to all teams that have earned them, and teams whose efforts can be seen. having a lot of awards helps this happen.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

Even a every year possible pin, I don't like. The problem with that is once again for the people that shied away for a year or did a year then came back after taking a year off. These members might be some of the most vital on a team (like team captain...). I like the medals, so even if for whatever reason you only do robotics one year you get a piece of hardware. Sure you will still have pictures and other items, but at least its something from FIRST.

There is no way for FIRST to know how much or little each individual puts in, this seems more of a should teams give out individual awards item, since the other members of the team would know who deserves recognition for the their efforts.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

Actually, Karthik stole my idea :p

I figured pins would be cheaper to produce, and would work in the same way that volunteer pins do now. They recognize you for your involvement, but in no way make it look like it's some kind of award.

It wouldn't have to be a 4 year pin. They could have 1,2,3,4 year pins. They could have 2 and 4 year pins.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

If I'm not mistaken, FIRST volunteers get these types of pins. That's probably where the idea originates... I know I've had this discussion before.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

It seems to me, that it would make the most sense to keep the participation medals (as they are obviously valuble to a number of people), and if participation medals aren't your thing, then just don't take one. I'm fortunate enough to be on a team that generally does fairly well, however 2004 was a rough year for us, and some of the students were clutching those participation medals like their lives depended on it.

As for the awards (which was I think the original topic, and I feel bad posting and contributing only to the tangents), I don't think there's too many. When there are no teams deserving of the awards, then maybe there are too many, but I haven't yet seen a competition where there is no team worthy of any certain award. One of my favorite parts about FIRST is the multi-facetedness (there I go making up words) of the program. There is a place for people of all interests, and limiting the number of awards seems like it would seem like it would put a damper on some of the different aspects of the competition. People who get no recognition tend to get disheartened. I've seen it on my own team (and am working to fix it), and I've seen it here on these forums (the animators come to mind first, but also between the lines in discussions of how to level the playing field, and others of similar nature). The large number of awards is a celebration of the different talents that it takes to create a strong, competitive team.

~Allison

Re: Does FIRST give out to many awards? (Opinion)
 

I haven't gotten thru this whole thread yet, and I'm not gonna pick on any particular FIRST awards, but the Boilermaker Regional did have 5 of those "fun" awards.. play of the day, best offense, defense, etc... Why?? Because a lot of people on these forums were asking to have them back, and so we decided to make it happen.
Granted, they were not given out or recognized by FIRST during normal award ceremonies...but by the planning committee.... and they were voted on by all the teams. Hopefully we can keep up this tradition and perhaps add more award titles. Perhaps other regionals will try to implement it too.

Even if a team is recognized for a "fun" thing, or a "smaller" accomplishment, it still makes it worthwhile and ENCOURAGES them to keep up the hard work, as the teams that won these awards were very excited, surprised, and appreciative.

I think the more awards the better, as long as the judges understand the criteria well and try to spread the wealth. I am one that believes it's not necessary for a team to win 2+ awards at a regional or championships. They may be in the running for 10 awards, but pick what best fits. There is another team just as deserving for the other awards.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

i agree.. cuz..what if your team didnlt win ANY awards, and that participation medal was all you had? wouldn't you fell like crap if your team puts in all those hours and not have ANYTHING to show ?

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

You'd still have the experience that you gained from FIRST. That's more important than anything an award can give you.

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

Wow this is a really interesting thread, and the first time I have had a chance to read it. I like the points from both sides, but I was surprised to not really see this take on it yet:

Lets look at FIRST as a corporation (it really is now). What is the goal of a corporation? To get more customers. How do you do that? Produce a product that everyone wants. Now many may argue that the product is the FIRST teams themselves, and I personally agree. However, look at it from the perspective of these companies that are shelling out thousands upon thousands of dollars to support these teams. There may be individuals in the upper ranks of the corporation that "get" why the company is spending this money. But it is still a corporate world. Corporations still want tangible results. If they poured the money into a product, they often get cash back in the end. We (FIRST Teams) give them nothing but a warm and fuzzy [I will caviot this by saying that there are longer term or outside benefits such as students returning as engineers, or company marketing, but just on a year to year immediate basis its mostly the warm fuzzy]. So what is the absolute easiest way for a team to show its sponsor what it got out of the competition? An award. Teams can bring their trophies back to their sponsor who can then display them in recognition of the teams hard work. Without the trophies and banners, FIRST teams can easily be forgotten about or pushed aside.

Looking at another version of the business side of things, if you look at the big companies, a lot of them participate in programs to better the company (like the Gallup Survey). One of the big things the survey focuses on is how the employees feel about the company, and one of their big things is "Recognition." They even have a question that asks "Were you recognized for doing a good job in the last seven days?" Many companies have small individual awards that supervisors can give at any time for good performance, hard work, or something like that. These awards often come with certificates and either gift certificates or money. Recognition means a lot to a lot of people. Now, not everyone needs physical or even verbal recognition. There are people who just knowing they did something good works for them. But for the rest of us, a little pat on the back, or something that we can hang on our fridge means a lot.

I have a few certificates that I have been given hanging in my office. Does the fact that the guy in the cube across from me has the same award hanging in his cube devalue mine? Heck no! I know the effort that I put in to get mine. There is a story with EVERY award, I know my story, I'm happy my hard work was recognized.

Moving on to some of the smaller notes on individual awards... I could go on and on about why each award is important, but I will just mention two of the ones already mentioned here. The spirit award is not simply for the team that screams the loudest. We learned this when we took the award in Toronto. Yes we cheered, yes we had camo pants, yes we had a great time... but the first thing the judges mentioned was "in the spirit of help the Rochester teams, this team hosted a pre-ship rally." That had nothing to do with how much we cheered. And the Entrepreneurship Award. I think this is a great new award. Most teams try to have a leadership team, or a student handbook, or marketing or such. All fall in the category of business. We lost several students this year because we touted the fact we were going to have a business sub team, and the business got lost in the hustle to do the engineering. The business aspect can be a HUGE part of a FIRST team. This is the side of engineering that doesn't have to do with the robot, but is real to the engineering world. So I am glad they finally brought this to importance in FIRST.

Now, onto the medals... If you don't care about yours, donate it to a team that had more than 25 people and actually wanted it. I have every one of mine since they started giving them out (yikes I think that goes back to 97!). I love every one of them. I will be honest, I don't look at mine as Olympic medals, they don't mean the same to me as the gold one we got for winning Toronto. But to me they are fun mementos of every year I participated. Pins are small and get lost, medals can hang on a wall and look pretty. Maybe medals are FIRST's equivalent of Varsity letters :)

A story to go with the medals. My rookie team's very first competition, the Finger Lakes Regional... My kids walked into this event having NO clue what the magnitude of it was. We scrambled, we fumbled, but our robot did alright. And then we won the rookie all star award!! The team went nuts. The kids wrote an email to everyone that Sunday, they wanted all of us to go to work and school wearing our uniforms (ugh I had already worn mine for three days and spent Sunday sleeping not washing it!) and they all wore their medals to school, and took turns carrying the RAS trophy through their classes. They were thrilled they were excited, and they were proud of both the medals and the trophy.

After our sixth trophy, the kids are desperately trying to get themselves recognized like the sports teams. Each sports team has their own wall or their own trophy case... but ours sit in a box upstairs. We are hoping that the school is proud enough of our team to recognize them like it has their athletes.

These awards mean a lot to a lot of people. Whether they mean something to you is up to you. But it means a lot to the corporations, and it means a lot to the students, and it gives many of us something tangible to set our sights on. I think its great that so many teams can be recognized for so many different things.

I say the awards are great. And I love that the Boilermaker brought back the fun awards and even got the teams involved!! We should all follow that lead.

Just my very long winded thoughts :)

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

Wow, all this is very interesting, and I do see both sides of it all.

I really like Kims view of it, it makes a lot of sense. And I think she is fairly right.

Maybe some teams just get too many awards and dont value them the same as others.

I dont have a lot to say, and speaking after Kims long and amazing opinion it is hard to beat that! lol.

Basically all I want to say is awards or not, just have fun, all I know is when there are awards, it makes you want to push a little harder and increases quality and drive.

-Ashley

Re: Does FIRST give out to many awards? (Opinion)
 

I think we need more awards - specifically an award that celebrates the team that effectively and creatively uses the most parts from the KOP.

I disagree, the kit bot is sub par in my book. I do like the pin idea, though. The major change I would make is the look of the awards themselves. Right now they all look like they are from the same mold (probally are). I think the visual aspect causes many out side FIRST to think all the awards are for the same thing(s).

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

i somewhat i agree, but then again what pushes us more than competittion, if no one cared who won or lost teams wouldn't try as hard, though it is indeed about the 2 golden words of first, gracious professionalism, there is still a desire among teams to push their hardest for bragging rights, and yea it is good to be a gracious professional but that isn't how it is in the real world, yea they are trying trying to improve our out look on how we treat others but basically what being a gracious professinal is, is to be good at losing

if we weren't good at losing there would be alot more insults and lack of attenion towards the winner, we would dispised them rather then going to them for help

and yes even though we don't all win awards we are all still winners, i mean come on not everyhigh school in america has robotics teams, so your getting the chance to work with real engineers and build a ROBOT!!!!

Re: Does FIRST give out too many awards? (Opinion)
 

after all you know what "they" say:

"Keep your friends close, and your enimies closer"