Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

Some interesting testosterone-laden information in this thread :)
Play nice boys...

Cervantes (among others) said, “All comparisons are odious.”
Indeed, comparisons can breed misunderstanding, resentment, and even hatred. It's good that everyone here knows each other so well and it's been a positive (albeit unnecessary) conversation thus far IMHO.

Might I suggest a more western viewpoint? Each year, each game is, by itself, a new experience and should be treated as such. It's great to remember history, but to classify a team like 45 as a "defensive" team only is not doing them justice. Anyone see them handle balls and cap under heavy pressure in 2004? A nearly unstoppable offensive attack.

Here are two rather famous Zen Sayings to chew on:
"Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish your opinions."
"If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are."

I mean no disrespect to those who have posted here, but, all the way to the core of my being, I believe that it is this very "thing" that holds our global culture back from realizing its true potential. To work hard, to move on, to not actively seek credit as an individual entity, to be able to "let go" of an opinion or experience (especially when you've worked very hard) so that it allows us to fully experience the "next" challenge in life by itself/for itself is critical as we move forward, together.

With all of that said, I'm all for some of the higher profile programs from across the country competing in regionals away from home. Over time, this can only help in dispelling the myths that separate us.

Namaste.

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

in 2003 wildstang had an awsome bot but so did 25 which was extremely strong and if a bot wasnt like 111 with wedged sides 25 was pushing the off. in 2004 id say the best defensive bot was 237 with their shimmey they were able to shut down 11 from hanging in the qfs and 716 in the finals at nj giving them the regional win,60 at nationals to bring them into the archimedies semis where they lost to 71 494 and 435, 716 was also extremely strong and had great grip on the platform. unfortionately for them they lost to the same alliance 237 lost to.
i say NORTHEAST!

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

wait, arent those the crazy defensive teams that the midwest can't measuee up to? Why, then, are they being beaten by the midwest in a nutshell? 494 and 71.
Well, i don't really think that any one region plays better defense, but i think that the midwest def has some of the strongest defense in the world. My main team to bring to your view (2005 for all these)

494: At WMR, they were the ultimate d-bot. WWe'd watch as 868 made its stack of 4 off the human loader and start to go for a goal. The opposing robots would go for it, and then "the martians are coming" Nuff said. Only in the midwest do you play defense against defense.\

308: This team lived up to their name. The Monsters played defense againt the 3 wheel crab of hot (they did lose to them) and got all the way to the fianls of GLR, only using defense.

48: the defence team in two symbols. they do defense, they do it right.

im sure i've forgotten some.

Re: Are you a NERD?
 

I'm loving the return of good ol' fashioned debate back on these forums. Karthik, you bring alot to the table, but being as stubborn as I am, you will never sell me on this. I admit I have never physically been to a midwest regional (I am hoping to change this soon), but I have viewed many of them as we used to send scouts out to take video. We would spend lots of time picking apart teams from the midwest, trying to figure out strengths and weaknesses, and though there were flashes of brilliance in defensive play at times, I could never see a solid arguement for even comparing the defensive play of the midwest to that you would find in New England or New Jersey. I do not deny that the number of defensive teams in the midwest are growing, but I feel that if you really watch what New England has offered up in the past, you would see a major difference.

You point out 2002 as an example of the midwest brilliance in defense. As good as Beatty was in grabbing three goals and taking a beating while holding strong...I dont feel that it compares to the downright crazy defensive showing we would see at Battlecry that same year. First you have team 121...a very strong offensive robot that year, who was so smart when we played them in one round, that when the round was close, and they realized that we were caught in their end zone, they boxed us in there...such an amazing defensive move that ended up winning the match for them and sending them into the finals. The other example..was team 190. Beatty could hold 3 goals and walk its way to the middle of the field...but with Gompei...you litterally had to rip that robot in half to even come close to prying those goals away. I dont think a soul who was there would ever forget the sight of the team 190 robot, being ripped apart, but still holding strong to those two goals...now that is defense.

I guess, no matter how you cut it, we could all go back and forth to no end on who is more defensive. I guess as it was stated before, there is only one way to find out...time for some teams to travel. Boy do I miss the days of Rumble at the Rock...when these questions could be answered.

Also, I find it interesting that the majority of the arguements on behalf of the midwest have come from those who are not even from the region! I'm very curious to see how members of those midwest teams feel on this issue?

Great discussion everyone, keep it up.
-Andy Grady

Re: Are you a NERD?
 

On a more debate centered note:

The tourney at Boilermaker was magical. Pretty much everybody tried to figure out a way to stop The Beast. 234, 16, and 393 gave defense a shot and took the Beatty alliance to three matches and nearly won. Then 135, 876, and 93 took to playing defense again in the finals. Apple Corps played killer D one match (I think the one they won) and took the number 1 seed alliance (kudos to 71, 1024, and 269) to three matches again.

Watching the finals on Einstein, something was seriously lacking. And it took me a while to figure out what it was. Some good-ol'-fashioned-MIDWEST-style defense.

Re: Are you a NERD?
 

Or simply any kind of defense at all, Midwestern flavor or otherwise, although those who chose to be "offensively defensive" by crossing the field and busting opponent's home rows certainly provided a couple entertaining moments. I'm pretty sure those same aggressive risk takers ended up winning the whole thing, too.


AMEN, BROTHER.

Re: Are you a NERD?
 

I don't think either region is more defensive minded than the other. What I think this boils down to, is that both regions have very good, experience teams. No matter what kind of robot those teams build, they can use a defensive maneuver when needed.

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

As far as defense I don't think there is a more defensive region at least here in New England or the Midwest. Its too hard to play defense every match with the caliber teams both regions produce especially in triple play, however I believe this season New England is home to the best defensive team in the world. (anybody who has seen 1071 in Beantown or UTC almost has to agree).. UTC this year was decided by defense, Team 1071 stole 2 tetras before they could be scored by team 230 and then prevented another 2 tetras from being scored. At beantown team 1071 again stole a few tetras off other robots although wasnt as successful as in UTC.

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

I'd say the reason 60 lost was moreso because everytime they touched a big ball in the final match, it popped.

If those balls didn't pop, I think the results in Archimedes would have been much different.

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

To tell my honest opinion, I don't think there are any regions that are much more defensive than the other. Sure, you'll have certain years where the reigning robots in defense will all be from one area or the other. But that's just all completely random; it's not like one region has a certain amount of experience that they'll choose to go with a more defensive strategy more often.

Teams will choose what they feel best will accomplish the game. Regardless of whether you're from the Midwest, Northeast, or any other region for that matter, you'll still go through that "What will get the job done?" analysis the days after Kickoff.

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

Yikes, Rich, I was just having some fun with friends, now I have to go find my dictionary to find out what you just said......

:)

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

oops ... my soapbox just happened to be within striking distance when I read and, well, um, I like to talk ... :)

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

I think that it varies from year to year. Some teams find it necessary to play defense rather than to score. Most more "experienced teams" always have strong drive bases as a contingency plan in case of robot failure. Sometimes strategies shift from offense to defense mid match and thus defense robots are born. Like I said before, it really depends on the team and what they think is best strategy wise. I know the midwest has their reputation of being especially rough, but I have seen some tough robots over here in New England as well. BTW, I am surprised nobody has mentioned 135 this year. They played some really tough defense and offense on everyone. They were the perfect hybrid in my opinion. They were feared for not only playing a good offense, but for also playing a mean defense. It was great working with you in Ohio guys!


GO 1403!!!

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

how many other times was 60 denied when it came to hanging tho, from what i got to see last 237 was good at regionals but when they added the big black mailbox like addition to their shimmey for nats it was amazing and also at nj they did push teams around before hangin and later denying teams from hangin on the bar, im sure they werent the strongest defensive bot while on the ground but they definately we dominant on the bar, and im not sure on how much pushing they did on the ground at nationals i think they mainly just went to the bar then.

Re: Who plays better defense, Midwest or Northeast?
 

The defense can get pretty crazy down here at the Florida regional too....

Anybody who has been to the Florida regional knows that it has been known to have alot of crashing and bashing (within the rules of course)

2002: SPAM 180 is just one of the good defensive bots out of the southeast off the top of my head