2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

It all started with this post, where I defined an elite team as one who you'd pick in Fantasy FIRST before Kickoff even happened. Someone (who can feel free to identify himself if he feels like it) PMs me, suggesting that a FF league based around that would be interesting.

So I'm going to give this a go. The working rules would look like this:

• The drafting period is the time between event signups close and Kickoff. No trading after Kickoff, as that would defeat the purpose.
• Drafting would be a team's average FF score across all regionals. (The alternative would be to draft a team's performance at an individual regional, such as 71 at Boilermaker or 1293 at Palmetto. Let me know your thoughts each way.)

Would there be interest in this?

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I'd do it.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Sounds good but might be a little trouble comparing one team to another using average - teams at different size regionals would have a different number of matches. Also awards at larger regionals or Championships are harder to receive and there would be problems weighing each of them fairly. The alternative choice of individual regionals would probably be easier to deal with. Either way you decide to run it, count me in!

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I originally was leaning towards team-at-event, but I wasn't sure. After thinking more, that's probably how it'll work.

Unless Dave has something truly nuts under his hat for 2006, scoring will be done using the system we had going this year, since I really do not want to fiddle with this during the season if I can help it for a few reasons. Besides the spirit of the competition, I'll be slightly busy at the time doing other things.

(internal thought: this is going to be nuts.)

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Sign me up!

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

sign me up. this seems cool

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I want in, definitely.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

This will be VERY intresting, *raises hand*

also I like the idea of averaging the score of the regionals they attend.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I would be interested. I like the idea of averaging scores. We might have to play around with the scoring system to get this to work for teams going to multiple regionals, and regionals with different numbers of matches, but I'm sure there's a way to make it even and fair. I think that method would be preferable to selecting a certain team at a particular event.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I'm in

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I figured that would be part of game.
You could pick a team that goes to one regional and wins, but I could pick a team that goes to three regionals and makes it to the semis at each.
I think those factors should just be part of the game.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Sounds fun - I'm in!

Even after event registration "officially" closes, regional team rosters can be fluid during the drafting period and even after Kickoff. How would you handle teams dropping out because of lack of funds or teams dropping IN? How would the presence of these newcomers at an event influence the decisions of people who had already picked a team for that competition? Some of these newcomers tend to be rather well-regarded teams.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

we each pick one team from each regional. (my $0.02)

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Im most definately in!

We could pick one team for each regional, or we could have a completly seperate league for each regional.
Or we could just use there winning % and QPs totalled from all regionals.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I'm in.

If it gets large enough, we could just pick a team's performance from a specific regional. i.e. one person picks redateam at Palmetto, and another person picks redateam at Orlando.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Cool Beans, I would totally do it.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I think dropouts/ins will be handled pretty much like the rest of the leagues do it--the picker has a hole in their lineup and can immediately draft any other available team. Since the entire FIRST Robotics Competition is fair game, I doubt we'll have a lack of teams.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I'd do it.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Well, since it seems there's enough buzz to get this off the ground, I'll ask a few questions of the group.

The first is the method of picking teams. Three options I can think of:
1) Team at event. For example, you wouldn't draft 1293, you'd draft 1293 at Palmetto. Simpler to assign points to, but adds another layer to drafting (as you're shopping regionals as well) and has a chance of backfiring as teams drop and add competitions.
2) Average score. Here, you'd just be picking 1293. Just what you think it is.
3) Some other funkified scoring system. If it's implementable, and seems fair enough to all concerned, I'm open to it.

Then there's the question of Championship vs. No Championship. After a bit of thinking, I'm in favor of it, even if it adds another layer of trickiness to scoring.

Finally, there's drafting methods. To keep with the spirit of things, all trades would naturally end at Kickoff. However, I've thought more about teams that drop out or in, and I think there's a few ways to play this:

1) Allow folks whose teams dropped to pick another team once event payment deadlines have passed. (GP would be in full effect.)
2) Have everyone create a list before Kickoff with their backups, several deep.
3) Pick from the List of Fate.

Thoughts?

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

YOu could use the scoring like usual. The only problem would be it would take a long time to calculate scores

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I would say average score, plus a reward for when a team wins an award.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

how can i miss a ff?
of course i am in

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Sounds great, i'm in.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I'd be in this one too.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Sure I'll play.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

i would be in if its done...

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

It'll happen--I'll make sure of that.

The question is how it'll happen. I'm still working on that.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Concerning the multiple regionals per team issue: I think teams should be scored on a team's season total. Knowing which teams go to multiple regionals and which regionals adds another dimension and makes it more challenging.
It would force FF participants to do more conversational research of a team. They'd have to talk to the members of the team and find out how the team is doing and where they plan on going.
Yes, the 'high funded/elite/great/whatever' teams would be drafted first, but it will probably happen that way regardless of the scoring system.


I think draft method #1 would be best.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

If we want to make this harder on ourselves (it already is getting very complicated very quickly) You pick enough teams to go 5 regionals and the championship.

Example

I pick MOE (365) who goes to 3 regionals and the Championship and 71 who goes to 2 regionals. They both go to the Championship and I pick on of them as my team for the Championship.

Another Example

You pick 1686 who goes to one regional, 1293 who goes to 2 and 616 who goes to 2. Say none of them were going to the Championship you pick 16 as your championship team. Makes drafting harder but scoring easier, I think.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

:D I'll definitely play! gives me something to do over the summer besides being a SHARPie thats robotics related ^_^

(leslie needs another hobby)

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Well, the drafting would have to happen in the fall (winter, probably), for the simple reason that we don't know who's officially coming back, and what's happening in the rookie department. With so many kids graduating, and some of them going on to start teams, I would say some are draftable in such a scenario.

Curtis does have an interesting concept with the five regionals plus the Championship. Since I know that teams add and drop regionals with some frequency, I think the easiest way to run it on the back end would be to lock in the competitions at the time of drafting.

For example: Let's say 1293 signs up for Palmetto, and I, even though wisdom from Palmetto FF last season screams otherwise, pick them. Drafting continues, and 1293 magically signs up for Peachtree and Florida. At this point, I'm still only getting points for 1293's performance at Palmetto, but I could draft them again to get the newer regionals.

Thoughts?

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I would be in favor of the "average score" method, or some other scoring system that allows you to draft 3 teams, for the entire season. Yes, it will be imbalanced, and not every team will be equal... but I think that adds a great dynamic to the game. Do you pick a team that's only going to one event, and hope they do really well at that event? Or do you pick a team going to 3 regionals and the Championship, and hope that their average performance is better than that of the one-event-wonder?

Drafting by event could be interesting (do you choose a team's Week 1 regional, when competition is lighter, or Week 5, when they've had a chance to compete and improve?), however, I think that a whole-season approach would be much more manageable for participants during the draft process. If you have to go through every team, and every regional in which those teams compete, there would easily be two to three times as many draft options to sort through. By limiting it to the team for the entire season, it greatly reduces the draft pool, which should make it considerably easier for players to decide on a picking list. Even reducing the numbers this way, there are still more than enough teams in FIRST to fill a FF league, so why not make it easier on everyone, and just pick by team, for the whole season?

As far as accounting for dropped teams, if you draft by team, not by event, the problem solves itself. Unless your team backs out of FIRST entirely, you'll still have a team competing and earning you points, and, with an average score system, it won't put you at much of a disadvantage (if any at all). If a team did withdraw from FIRST, I would say the drafter would be allowed to pick from any team still remaining on the draft board at that time.

So, for those two reasons (reducing complexity of draft, and eliminating the drop problem), I am strongly in favor of a whole-season, average score (or similar) system. I think it will be the easiest to manage, and the most dynamic choice.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I was thinking about this the other day, and I realized that there is the off chance of this happening, which would be bad on multiple levels.

Perhaps it would work better for everyone to draft, say, 4 teams with the lowest score dropped?

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

Instead of drafting a team for the season, you draft a team for a regional.

EX: Team 25 attends NJ and Palmetto. Team 25 can be picked twice, once for the Palmetto Regional and then once for NJ.

This makes it a more complex system, but its more fair for everyone.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I am not sure I like this, for 2 reasons, what if a team decides to go to a regional later in the season? and What if a team drops out of a regional due to funds?

Anyway, Like i said in the other thread, i think it should be done right after the robots ship. Some teams will have posted pics and most teams will know what regional they are going to. It is very hard to gather the Data necessary for all the calculations with score and such, so I would perhaps like to hear ideas that don't directly involve scoring of the robots and prehaps placement and award based. As we all know, the scores in the earlier regionals are much lower normally so if a team competes in the last 2 weeks it will probably have a better average score than one that competes in the first 2 weeks even if the second team placed better.

hope that makes sense.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

i agree with Ben on the fact that drafts should be done after the ship date.

in fantasy football, you don't draft your players before the rookie draft, or before training camp. you wait to see who's gonna be a starter...who's gonna retire...etc

that way one person isn't left high-and-dry with ricky williams as his fantasy stud running back for 2004 :mad:

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

The whole reason the drafting will happen before Kickoff came from a thread a while back about teams and their reputations. Right now, after hearing some good reasons for it, it appears that the drafting will be for a team for the whole season, with their scores averaged. (The drafting four and dropping one thing may or may not happen--I'd like more feedback on that first.)

And by scores, I mean their FF score, similar to how Palmetto (and probably a lot of the other leagues) was run this year, where awards and seedings score the points.

Re: 2006 Pre-Kickoff FF?
 

I don't think dropping the 4th is a good idea. If you have 4 well rounded picks, then dropping one is not advantageous. But if you have 2 awesome, and 2 weak, you have an advantage on the person with 4 well rounded teams.

Draft X number keep X number.