Chief Delphi

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   tape measures (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3868)

Scottie2Hottie 23-04-2002 08:16

Question to nuggets, did your team originally have a tape measurer on your bot? I have been with first for 3 years and it seems to me that if anyone doesn't like something another team is doing, they pull the "spirit of first" card. Our team, like so many others, was pushed away from the idea of teathers due to FIRST's rule of entanglement. Now that all teathers are allowed, we plan on adding one at nationals. I would say if there is one thing that isnt in the spirit of FIRST, it would be barging your way through rules until you get your way. We would be perfectly fine without a teather if all the other teams didn't have a teather. Personally, I think anyone who included a teather despite FIRST's rule brought the copycats onto themselves. Just my $.02

nuggetsyl 23-04-2002 09:01

NO we do not use a tape measure. Justifying something is right because everyone else is doing it is not the way to go. Every year i push my team to think out of the box and come up with new ideas for the robot to show people new and cool ways at looking at the game. I am not a judge i am not going to stop anyone from putting one on. And with this sprit of first thing you are talking about that is not for me to judge. Every one has to judge that for themselves. If you feel it is in the spirt of first to add some on to your robot go ahead, but make sure you are doing it to learn from it.

PsychoPhil 23-04-2002 15:52

Re: Re: Re: thats a crock
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Prairie
When FIRST made the initial rulings on tape measures, many teams (including mine) were scared away from the idea. Those who kept with tape measures either didn't read the rules, or didn't care enough to be cautious. Now that the rules have been stated clearly, I think anyone who wants to design a tether using a legal tape measure realizes it may be smart gameplay for them.

Well, yeah:

I know exactly what you mean. We also were scared away form that idea. And it's fine to add now a tape meassure in my opinion. What I DON'T understand is FIRST saying that they are allowed. All teams who listened carefully to what they originally said are being penalized now. That's saomething that I WON'T EVER understand...

We spent over 60 manhours on our 18 feet extension device that is really rigid and weighs 14 pounds.
Now a ref in NJ told us that none of the judges liked our extension because it was so rigid. SO wHAT is all i can say there. We wanted to be nice and build it as much as the official rules state and then they don't like it? they like something like a tape meassure or a long piece of plastic that unfolds (team88) more???
I JUST DON'T GET IT!

And abot that other post:

Yes, everybody can just take a tape meassure now, put it on and it will work. It is really not difficult at all to power a tape meassure to go out and back in...


And I also think it's fine if teams do take a tape meassure and put it on now, since the rules state that it is leagal to repair and imporve the robots at the competition site...

PsychoPhil 23-04-2002 15:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottie2Hottie
Personally, I think anyone who included a teather despite FIRST's rule brought the copycats onto themselves. Just my $.02
Hey, they said make it rigid and be aware that everything that happens with it is YOUR fault. We did. Nothing wrong with that....

Pat Sarmiento 24-04-2002 04:16

Let me just clear up a few misunderstandings that I've noticed throught this thread. To me, the controversy is over the 'opinion' that tape measures should be looked down upon because they are too easy to install and copy.

I watched our team (254) build our tape measure extensions the Thursday and Friday at Cleveland. We hadn't before because of the rulings, but once we found out they weren't going to order them off, we went to work. They worked the one time we tried them.

If you saw the extension there, I would agree that it looks like it's just 'put it together and go'. But there's a lot more to the extension, at least for our team. You can't just put a tape measure, a motor, and some bolts and expect an easy 10 points.

In San Jose, you could have seen the work behind the extensions even more. We had two or three guys dedicated to checking the extensions after every match, because we had REMOVED THE SPRING COILS from our tape measure to get it to extend easily, REVERSED THE DIRECTION of the tape measure as to have the edges point down and reduce entanglement risk, and we were liable to REPLACE tape measures that we deemed used enough. We went through somewhere between two and four tape measures that regional, all of them being the ones in Small Parts, and we're ready to do that again.

But even more importantly, we're willing to help anyone else who wants to implement such a device. That's really what FIRST is about: you discover something that works, and you teach others what you find, spread the knowledge. It's not copycatting, it's teaching.

BTW, we did work on extensions before the tape measure, we had tried a scissor lift extension and theorized an aluminum plate-tounge, but scrapped both because they weren't looking too good as in performance and that we had a weight problem.

To everyone, in conclusion, the game changes, so change to the game. It's FIRST.

[end two cents]

PsychoPhil 24-04-2002 10:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Pat Sarmiento
We had two or three guys dedicated to checking the extensions after every match, because we had REMOVED THE SPRING COILS from our tape measure to get it to extend easily, REVERSED THE DIRECTION of the tape measure as to have the edges point down and reduce entanglement risk, and we were liable to REPLACE tape measures that we deemed used enough. We went through somewhere between two and four tape measures that regional, all of them being the ones in Small Parts, and we're ready to do that again.

Well:

There are a few things to say about this:

We went out of our way and saved weight where we could to get a rigid extension arm on. We have one: 18ft and 14 pounds. We worked on it a whole week every night with a few people. I think we spent at least 80 manhours working on it, maybe it were 150 manhours. And compared to that it is easy to put a tpemeassure on!!! And you can even put two on, once you figured out how to. And I'm just kind of disappointed that FIRST allowed tape meassures after they said, they won't be allowed earlier. The teams that spent so much time building something else but a tape-messure are penalized.

And you should always have somebody checking all robot functions before every match, that's doesn't have to do anything with the fact that tape-meassures are complicated...

So long, Phil

thedillybar 29-04-2002 00:10

"Copying" other teams ideas happens in more than just tape measures. The same driving surface (carpet) has been used for the past 3 years (or more?) and many, many teams build their drivetrain based on what worked for the successful teams in the previous year. Is this copying or cheating or illegal or "in the spirit of FIRST"? Good question...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:32.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi