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-   -   What is the most important engineering problem of our future? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39428)

KenWittlief 26-08-2005 23:12

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
there is enough space and room for people to survive (at this point), but there are not enough resources for every person on the planet to have a 4 bedroom house, 2 cars, 4 computers, 5 TVs, all the food they can eat...

there are only so many acres of land that can be farmed. Once the population gets above 1 person per acre, or 2 people per acre of farmland, people will starve.

but why do we need to let our population grow that large? what benefit is there to having 6 billion, or 10 billion people, instead of only 1 billion, or 100 million...?

I cant see any benefit to having the surface of the earth covered with humans.

Maybe this is part of the engineering question - how can we prosper without the need for a constantly increasing population?

What science and technology advancements would allow us to turn the size of our population back, way back? To allow our standard of living to continue to improve, with less and less people?

ChrisH 27-08-2005 01:31

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief


Maybe this is part of the engineering question - how can we prosper without the need for a constantly increasing population?

What science and technology advancements would allow us to turn the size of our population back, way back? To allow our standard of living to continue to improve, with less and less people?

The first one is hardest to deal with. We live in an economy that demands ever increasing levels of production to stay "healthy". If we all just consume at the same rate we are now for the next ten years, our economy would collapse, because it depends on growth to work. Fixing that is going to be a severe shock to the system.

The second one is easier. As people's standard of living rises, the number of children they have decreases. In some countries today, they are staying afloat population-wise through immigration, not reproduction. Italy is an example as I recall, but that was in the media so I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Mark Pierce 30-08-2005 13:06

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
To some extent all engineering "... elevates the standards of living and adds to the comforts of life" (see Herbert Hoover)

My list of major engineering challenges in the coming years:

1. Developing alternative and more efficient energy production
2. Cleaning up our environment and keeping it clean.
3. Improving health care (Drugs, treatments, medical devices, etc)
4. Improving availability of nutritious food and clean water throughout the world.
5. Safer, more efficient transportation systems.

To attack these issues engineers in every field will need to focus on several things in everything they do:

1. Improving efficiency to lower energy demand.
2. Designs using recyclable/reusable materials.
3. Less polluting mining, manufacturing, transportation, and products.
4. Reducing obsolescence/increasing design life of products (Ever notice how few things we buy are designed to last more than 5-10 years?)
5. Consider quality and safety in the design of all products and processes.

I'm sure there others, but the point is that the world needs engineers to make the right choices, rather than the expedient, easier, or initially cheaper way. Even if we are not designing a fusion reactor or water purification device, we are expected to not add to these problems and do what we can to help solve them.

To do this, the engineering student should strive to get a solid, broad engineering education, rather just learning how to hack some code in a particular language or squeak by doing the minimum required for a degree.

koala79 05-09-2005 12:27

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Very interesting answers, all. I agree that oil is probably critical at this point and in light of Hurricane Katrina, strengthening the infrastructure of levies and dams across hurricane-prone states would be crucial.

mechanicalbrain 05-09-2005 12:53

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
I think the most important issue currently is within us. I'm talking about our genetics. Normally in the wild animals with physical or mental disabilities die off but since we have removed much of the limiting factors of our species undesirable genetic material. One very apparent aspect is obesity. I have a friend who eats very healthily and exercises but can't drop his weight below 200 pounds. He is not the only person i know who suffers from this problem. This is why i think that their should be a stress on genetic research. I hear lots of people talk about their fear of super humans but i think that without genetic research we end up crippling our selves. I still agree that research should be strictly monitored to avoid abuse though.

KenWittlief 05-09-2005 14:12

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by koala79
Very interesting answers, all. I agree that oil is probably critical at this point and in light of Hurricane Katrina, strengthening the infrastructure of levies and dams across hurricane-prone states would be crucial.

this will definately become an issue now.

Part of the problem is building flimsy structures on sand. We knew better than this even 2000 years ago

and part of it is simply telling people "this area is below sea level, you CANT build anything here"

you cant out-engineer nature, or gravity!

Kevin Sevcik 05-09-2005 14:19

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicalbrain
I think the most important issue currently is within us. I'm talking about our genetics. Normally in the wild animals with physical or mental disabilities die off but since we have removed much of the limiting factors of our species undesirable genetic material. One very apparent aspect is obesity. I have a friend who eats very healthily and exercises but can't drop his weight below 200 pounds. He is not the only person i know who suffers from this problem. This is why i think that their should be a stress on genetic research. I hear lots of people talk about their fear of super humans but i think that without genetic research we end up crippling our selves. I still agree that research should be strictly monitored to avoid abuse though.

It's called eugenics. Google it and look it up on Wiki. It's been historically unpopular because it would pretty much end up treating people as a collection of desirable and undesirable traits. More or less slapping a great big number on your forehead rating you for all of time and telling you how worthy you are of having kids.

See also Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, and the movie Gattaca.

mechanicalbrain 05-09-2005 14:48

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik
It's called eugenics. Google it and look it up on Wiki. It's been historically unpopular because it would pretty much end up treating people as a collection of desirable and undesirable traits. More or less slapping a great big number on your forehead rating you for all of time and telling you how worthy you are of having kids.

See also Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, and the movie Gattaca.

NO NO thats not what i mean at all! :ahh: What im talking about is not stopping people from breeding but fixing genetic problems they might pass on to their children.

KenWittlief 05-09-2005 21:01

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
this brings up an interesting aspect of engineering. Take genetic engineering for example. The obvious approach is to take on things that everyone agrees are defects.

Once you've done that, the line between defect and preference becomes blurred. In general, engineers solve problems and make things (systems) better. Once you have a system perfected, or a problem solved, the engineers are done.

And for any given problem there is a "best solution" or best answer. Take cars for example. For a two passenger car there is an ideal aerodynamic shape - the one shape that will give you the lowest wind resistance and the best stability at your target top speed.

Ok - so if all car manufacturers get their heads around this, then one day all two passenger cars will have exactly the same shape, and all 5 passenger cars will have exactly the same shape

to use any other shape would be an error - and engineers do their best to eliminate errors.

Given enough time and free reign, genetic engineering would end up in the same place: there would be one ideal (perfect) human genome. If you start assigning people a task or career before they are born, then there will be one ideal genome for each career or job. In the end lots of people would be exactly the same.

But heres the weird part. Many of the things we value as humans arise out of error conditions. Our heros are doctors and firemen and the guy who pulls you off the roof of your flooded house.

most of the things we do for entertainment and hobbies are based on error conditions. Driving a car at 65mph on a straight and level highway with the windows closed and the A/C set at 71º is downright boring. Driving a convertable down a winding road up and down hills at 65mph is a blast.

in fact, we create arbitrary error conditions for sport. We put a football at one end of the field and tell one team it needs to be at the other end if you want to win.

While we are in the middle - while we are half way to perfection, being an engineer and solving these problems, these error conditions is a very rewarding career. But once we get 'there', once everything is perfect, I think we will be bored to tears

and if we are gentically engineered, we will be bored with each other as well.

mechanicalbrain 05-09-2005 21:14

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief
this brings up an interesting aspect of engineering. Take genetic engineering for example. The obvious approach is to take on things that everyone agrees are defects.

Once you've done that, the line between defect and preference becomes blurred. In general, engineers solve problems and make things (systems) better. Once you have a system perfected, or a problem solved, the engineers are done.

And for any given problem their is a "best solution" or best answer. Take cars for example. For a two passenger car their is an ideal aerodynamic shape - the one shape that will give you the lowest wind resistance and the best stability at your target top speed.

Ok - so if all car manufactures get their heads around this, then one day all two passenger cars will have exactly the same shape, and all 5 passenger cars will have exactly the same shape

to use any other shape would be an error - and engineers do their best to eliminate errors.

Given enough time and free reign, human engineering (genetic engineering) would end up in the same place: there would be one ideal (perfect) human genome. If you start assigning people a task or career before they are born, then there will be one ideal genome for that career or job. In the end lots of people would be exactly the same.

But heres the weird part. Many of the things we value as humans arise out of error conditions. Our heros are doctors and firemen and the guy who pulls you off the roof of your flooded house.

most of the things we do for entertainment and hobbies are based on error conditions. Driving a car at 65mph on a straight and level highway with the windows closed and the A/C set at 71º is downright boring. Driving a convertable down a winding road up and down hills at 65mph is a blast.

in fact, we create arbitrary error conditions for sport. We pull a football at one end of the field and tell one team it needs to be at the other end if you want to win.

While we are in the middle - while we are half way there, being an engineer and solving these problems, these error conditions is a very rewarding career. But once we get 'there', once everything is perfect, I think we will be bored to tears

and if we are gentically engineered, we will be bored with each other as well.

Your post needs to be more carefully worded. When i first read it i thought you were saying genetic defects keep life interesting! :rolleyes: Im sure your talking more along the lines of if we were all the same. When i talk about genetic defects i mean sickle cell anemia, down syndrome, blindness. Also the car example brings up another issue. Just because its the best engineering design for a task is it really the best design for a task. I think most of us know that a while back they designed a car that was nearly indestructable. The problem: after people bought one they would never need a new car! same with lightbulbs. And this also applies to FIRST.

Greg Perkins 05-09-2005 21:29

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
I think the biggest engineering problem right now is how to make those levees in New Orleans beefier and more structurally sound. Civil engineering at its finest. and this isnt some easy fix either....they first must plug up all the holes, divert the water...then rebuild all of them to be able to withstand another cat4 or cat5 hurricane. this will take YEARS, i read somewhere that the governent estimates this (relating to all of New Orleans) to take almost up to 10 if they are lucky. Seriously, graduate, and start making our country safer.

KenWittlief 05-09-2005 21:36

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
I dont mean interesting in a glib sort of way. The error conditions in our lives, the things that are not perfect, those things are very much a part of what makes us human

and they bring out the apects of human existance that we cherish the most. Anyone who has ever had a serious medical condition will have a great deal of love and respect for the medical professionals who treated and assisted them. If humans are perfected some day, we wont have doctors anymore.

Another way of looking at this: its been said to be an artist you need to suffer. You must get down to the core of existance to be able to communcate on a meaningfull level.

I never really bought into that yin-yang stuff, that good and bad are in balance. But it is true, if you've never gone for a day or two without food, you really dont know what a good meal is.

Im not trying to present this from a moral perspective. Im only relating the nature of our human existance. The things that have the most meaning to us seem to arise from error conditions that, if we could, we would eliminate.

Where does that leave us?

mechanicalbrain 05-09-2005 21:38

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Perkins
I think the biggest engineering problem right now is how to make those levees in New Orleans beefier and more structurally sound. Civil engineering at its finest. and this isnt some easy fix either....they first must plug up all the holes, divert the water...then rebuild all of them to be able to withstand another cat4 or cat5 hurricane. this will take YEARS, i read somewhere that the governent estimates this (relating to all of New Orleans) to take almost up to 10 if they are lucky. Seriously, graduate, and start making our country safer.

Not only that. The problem with the pipelines is that power shut down. Think back to when half of the east coast had no power because of the powerplant that failed. We need a more reliable design for almost everything. Their is a countless number of things that can hamstring the country if they failed!

Kevin Sevcik 06-09-2005 09:39

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicalbrain
Not only that. The problem with the pipelines is that power shut down. Think back to when half of the east coast had no power because of the powerplant that failed. We need a more reliable design for almost everything. Their is a countless number of things that can hamstring the country if they failed!

More reliable designs exist for just about everything you can think of, really. Atleast everything that's currently out there. The problem is and always will be expense. Engineers, politicians, etc. have to decide how much protection is worth, vs. how much it will cost. The power outage could have been prevented via a massive upgrade and re-organization of the national power grid, but that would also have been incredibly expensive. Power companies are businesses too, ya know.

KenWittlief 06-09-2005 12:52

Re: What is the most important engineering problem of our future?
 
Ive been through a couple ice storms in upstate NY over the last 12 years or so. Our power was out for a few days one time, about the week the other. Its really not a major problem, its easy to plan for and to ride out. If you have a kerosene heater you can keep your pipes from freezing (but your house wont be warm)

and if you have a few gas cans you can charge up a car battery in about 1/2 hour with your car (jumper cables) and it will power 12 volt lamps and portable TVs and stuff for a couple days

but the thing that boggles the mind is: its cheaper to run the power lines on poles, and replace thousands of miles of them every 7 to 10 years, than it is to run them all underground.

I think in general humans live in denial to some extent. We pretend things like hurricanes and earth quakes, tornados and floods and ice storms and blizzards dont happen, at least they wont happen to us, when we build our homes and plan out communities. Larger commercial buildings are designed to withstand most of these things, but our houses are not.


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