Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

Have you investigated why? You are going to need IC-PROG for your project.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

I am aware that i need it, there is really no way to see what is going on if an error just comes up then closes the program, if there is I dont know how to check

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

I will leave you with this thought:

Thousands of people from all over the world have downloaded and used this program. Somehow, they were successful in getting it to work.

You should look over the step by step instructions and ask yourself "What did I do wrong?".

If you look over your posts in this thread, we have no idea what your environment is. We are not sure which exact version of IC-PROG you attempted to use. We do not know what error messages you received when (or if) you installed icprog.sys (I had to reboot my XP SP2).

In fact, we still do not know exactly what HEX file you are attempting to load. Also, I harbor a sneaking suspicion that you did not attempt to even read through the links I posted...

In short, there is little more that I can do for you. You must somehow learn to do for yourself.

Good Luck.

Mike

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

well thousands of people all around the world do not have the same computer and all that as me, I dont know what version i downloaded because I downloaded the one in the link you sent me

and i have decide to stop this project because whenever i say i have a problem with it everyone on here trying to "help" me just trys to say that I am doing something wrong because i dont know what I am doing, and of course they are right because I dont know what i am doing, maybe instead of everyone telling me that I am doing everything wrong be cause i apparently dont know what i am doing, they could tell me how to do it right

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

They have tried to tell you how to do it right, but that is very difficult when you don't give any details about what you are doing it with. You must also remember that this is a forum about FIRST robotics, not your own helpdesk for every question you have. If you look in the electrical forum, nearly half the threads there are you asking questions about your own side projects, many of which have little to do with FIRST other than the fact they are robotics based. Learn to use google - there are tons of people out there who have done much of the stuff you ask about before and have written about it.

You really need to grow up a bit before you can expect people to put time into responding to your posts anymore.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

Alright Sparks, per Brian's observations, I decided to look back at some of your other posts/threads. I'm not trying to lecture you or anything, I just want to give you some advice.

In this thread, you were looking for help to learn about electronics. I'm not sure if your overzealousness in posting was a result of Kevin's suggestion of just asking, but you need to slow down a little. Many of your questions don't have anything to do with each other except that they are about electronics or robotics. This is a community, and we do want to help our own, but as Brian said, you need to be a little self-sufficient also. One of your questions was simply "what is I2C?" You later followed up by looking for a place to learn about it. You could have easily (and probably more quickly) found information by using Google or going to a library. You also IMed me and asked about using a certain capacitor with your 7805. I wasn't sure and asked if you knew what the spec said to use. You said you didn't even bother to check. Don't get me wrong, questions are good, but you need to try to help yourself before asking for other's help. I'm not just saying this to make you go away, it's something that you'll have to do in life. You won't always have somebody right there at your side to hold your hand and walk you along.

As another comment on your myriad of questions: it's almost as if you were still looking for a direction to go by jumping around. Now that you've found something you want to do, I think you might still be moving too fast. You need to slow down a little.

I don't know much about your electronics background, but it seems that you may have bitten off more than you can chew. If I'm not mistaken, your ultimate goal from all of this is to make a Segway-style balancing robot. It sounds like a fun project. But, you don't seem to have the background for it yet. In our personal conversations, you mentioned that you don't know C. However, you wanted to program your PIC in C. Before you could write the program though, you needed to figure out how to program the PIC. I feel that you're working backwards. You're starting from the specific and moving to the general. You don't build a kitchen, however, before you have four walls and a roof. And you certainly don't build your kitchen until you at least have a foundation.

When others help you, they expect that you have a certain amount of expertise in the area. You have to tell them how much expertise you have. All of us have been telling you things, but we don't know what you know. If you were a three year old, we'd have to teach you about electricity first. If you have a Ph.D. in electrical engineering, you're probably only trying to figure out which buttons to press because the system is new to you. I'm not saying that you're either of those, but in order to communicate effectively, we all have to work on common ground. By asking how to flash the PIC, it makes other assume that you've already figured out how to write the program.

You need to put down your microcontroller and do some thinking. You need to figure out what level you're actually at. Go back there and start working your way up. You expressed an interest in putting together an electronics kit. Maybe you should go to the library and get some books (or find some websites via Google) to learn about basic electronics. It seems that you want to move toward digital, so start with that. Learn about electricity. Then start building some circuits with resistors and learn how they work. Learn how capacitors interact with them. Start working with transistors. When you get comfortable with those, find some logic ICs.

I'm not saying that this is the exact path that you should follow, but it's what I did. (and I didn't have the benefit of being able to use the internet, which made it a little harder) When I was a kid, I was taking things apart to figure out how they worked and started playing with their parts. In 4th or 5th grade, I bought an electronics kit from Radio Shack. (I'm not completely sure what compelled me to spend the $25 on it...at that age, you'd be lucky to have $30 lying around) I was still at the stage that I wanted to just see things work than actually understand them. In 6th grade, I recall taking the board out of a remote controlled car and replacing the motor with a relay to make a radio controlled switch. I wasn't too interested in the details of how it worked, just that it was cool. I knew that there was a slight problem with it, but I wasn't able to fully understand what it was and how to fix it for several years. It wasn't that I couldn't figure it out, just that I didn't have enough knowledge to understand how I coulld fix it. I still have the project lying around somewhere, but I still haven't gotten around to fixing it.

My electronics development pretty much laid dormant for a few years. By the late part of my freshman year of high school, I had access to the internet. With the wealth of knowledge at my fingertips (well, Google wasn't around, so it was still a little hard finding things), I was able to do some research. I got back into electronics via robotics. I started researching robotics related information and eventually bought a Basic Stamp. I played with that a little bit. It also got me into digital logic. A couple years went by, I experimented an learned. Then, I learned about FIRST. But sadily, I couldn't get my school to let me start a team. Instead, however, some of the science teachers pointed me toward the Tech Challenge. I entered that twice with my friends that wanted to start a FIRST team with me. While the competition isn't strictly about robotics, robots are common place. That helped me expand my knowledge and skill further. I researched PICs, but didn't have the money to start working with them.

The year after I graduated, one of the new physics teachers, currently our main moderator, attempted to start up a FIRST team. Having more weight than me (and having different internal school circumstances), he was able to make it happen. I still learn little things here and there, but my electronics expertise is generally beyond what FIRST can teach me in 1351's setting (it let me learn about mechanics, though). I'm still the main guy to help out the high school students with the control systems aspect of the robot, though. Seeing PICs in use, and having slightly more money, I recently started playing with them.

There were a few times over the years when I tried to do too much. I tended to get frustrated and wanted to just drop it. However, if I just slowed down a little, I was able to get back on track. If you get in over your head, just back up a little and try again at a slower pace. I'm not exactly sure what I want you to get out of the story of my life, but I figured you could use some inspiration.

I don't claim to be an expert in electronics, but I do know a thing or two. I have been close to where you are right now, but I found a way out. Again, as I stated earlier, I'm not trying to lecture you. I'm just giving you some advice. Whatever you chose to do is up to you. While my continued help is not contigent on you following my advice, I do prefer that you would. When I help you out, I'd like it if you helped me also. Do a little research on your own. If you get stuck, then feel free to ask. But, make your exact problem clear. Try to be as specific as possible. Also, let us know what you have done so far and what you hope to achieve by solving your problem. It will help us understand what you need to know.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

OK. your acting like I know nothing about electronics, I know way more then you think. I know the most out of probally anyone at my school about circuit development and how to make complicated electronic systems, my questions about the electronics kit was simply me not know what i should get to work with, I listed something i knew i needed to get, like Logic gates and all that, i listed maybe half of the things i know how to use, I just simply thought that someone with some expertise may have known of some components that i may not have known of of that would make things easier for me, like the Resonator someone mentioned, that is something i didnt know about and it will help me greatly by simplifying circuits for a clock source.

I ask so many questions that have to do with different things because I know about lots of little bits and pieces of things, and as for little things like the I2C, or the 7805, i will admit were a little stupid but I have ADD so sometimes simple things like common sense escape from me.

I also do not think i have bitten off more then I can chew because what is the use of doing something to learn if it is not a challenge, realy the only thing i need help with is the microcontroller.

You cannot use your analogy of building a kitchen to apply to this because it is totally different situtaion i am in, because currently i am planning for the project and getting everything i need for it. I am just doing it like the design process, i have defined the problem, and now i am doing research, because how could i possibly build something without know what to build? like how are you going to build a kitchen with out know how to build a foundation?

I dont know how to do things with a microcontroller because i know alot about electrical and mechanical but nothing about programming.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

I think you are making a mistake far too many in high school make (myself included back then), that you think you know a lot more about a subject than you actually know. Although you may know more than almost everyone else at your school, that doesn't qualify you as an expert. Once you get to college and you are among people who know more than you, you begin to realize how foolish you are. As a junior and senior high school I thought I knew everything, but in college you realize you know nothing relative to what there is to learn. Looking at what I will cover until I graduate college I know I will not know anything but the basics, until I go to grad school or get a full-time job. Even then you will still be learning, but you can atleast claim a good ammount of expierence in the field.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

I wasn't questioning how much you know, just what you know. I didn't mean to insult you by saying that you should go back to resistors and caps, I was just using that as an example because I have no idea where you are. But again, you didn't really give us any indication of what you know. Like I said, we all have to work on common ground. If you ask me the proper way to merge onto the freeway, I'm going to assume that you know how to operate the car, unless you tell me otherwise. If you didn't know how to use the car in the first place, you'll probably get discouraged when my instructions don't help you.

Go to the grocery store and buy a box of Hostess individually packaged cake products. Stuff as many cakes into your mouth as you can. It might be fun and taste good, but you won't be able to chew and swallow it. There's a difference between having a challenge and doing too much. If you want to learn how to use a computer, you don't try learn C++ if you've never touched a keyboard before. You have to take it a little bit at a time.

I was refering to building knowledge. You can't learn how to write until you know how to use a pencil. In your specific situation, you can't learn how to program something until you know how it works.

Your comments seem to imply that you feel that I am attacking you. If I come off that way, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get you to help us understand what level you are at so that we can communicate better. Unless we know exactly what you are doing, we can't help you much.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

when did i say i think i am an expert???? i never said anything like that, i do not have a super ego, i am just saying as far as I know i am the only one in my school that is that interestedin electronics and i am the only person i know that knows that much, mechanically i am not, but everyone I know in robotics just knows how to assemble the electronics system, which is basically just following a schematic

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

i am not trying to attack anyone either,
basically as i said many times I am just trying to get a 16F84 microcontroller to work, should i say to answer you,

exactly what i am doing is trying to get a 16F84 microcontroller to work

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

That still doesn't say much. I refer you to a problem that I had with my car last year. If you feel the need to read it, the details are on this forum. Essentially, my suddenly car died while I was driving it. If I had gone to the forum and said "My car died. Help me fix it." I wouldn't have gotten much of a response. I gave the year and model and a description of the problem. I also took it upon myself to run some diagnostics to get more info about the problem. Without this info, nobody could have helped me unless they were sitting with me and my car to see it for themselves. Unless you can find someone in your area, none of us can help you like that.

But now, back to your problem. You mentioned that IC-Prog crashes and gives you an error when you try to program. Give us a step by step run through of what you do right after you open IC-Prog. Also, what error does it give you?

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

-I open the Program
-paste the code you sent me
- i hit the button to lad the code to the PIC
-message comes up that says error
-program closes

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

I'm not aware that you can paste. I've attached a screenshot of IC-Prog. Do you have the correct program?

If so, connect your programming circuit, then Settings > Hardware check. I'm pretty sure that verifies that it can talk to the circuit. If it doesn't work, someone, I believe it was Mike, posted a link to setup instructions for IC-Prog.

Re: 16F84 HELP!!!
 

welli got it from the link that was posted on here for it, and it lets me paste so, I dont know what is going on