Well, atleast as opposed to FIRST, you don't have to stay at a "Universal Hotel". I know that this was part of the FIRST rules, or you had to pay a certain ammount of money per person on the team that didn't. Really rediculous.

-Dallin

not allowed to, eh? interesting...

that is what my team was told last year....because at florida the battlebots rep came up to our drivers and asked them if they would make a battlebot

That's kind of silly. They can't say "you can't do this", it's all a matter of where you do it and whos helping you. Perhaps they wont help you, but im sure you don't need that help by now. If what you said about building your FIRST robot is true, im sure you will do fine. I think both competitions are fun, perhaps FIRST has lost a little bit of it's luster to me(due to certain things) but they are both great learning opportunities which should not be denied to the kids.

-Dallin

Battlebots snubbed by FIRST.
 

I had a very nice conversation with the Battlebot promoters - they seem like very nice and warm hearted people - they extended the hand of friendship to FIRST and were totally snubbed.

So they took their ball and went home and started up BattleBots IQ. So it is the violence arguement. Can someone get hurt at battlebots - yes - but you can get killed at a hockey game, or at an auto race as well. Does battlebots promote violence? Is destructive testing really violence? - you crash test vehicles for Pete's sake! If Battlebots was more like FIRST there would be less public interest.

Play the converse in your head. A lot of engineers quit FIRST after the 2001 season because the co-opetition bored the hell out of them. Universities in England that promote "RobotWars have seen a 10% increase in enrollment. Keep your eye on the bottom line.

The purpose of FIRST
 

Dean has often stressed that the purpose of FIRST is to make scientists and engineers "heros" to young people - and show that these subjects are accessible.

At Battlebots I saw many kids lined up to get the autographs of the team members of some of their favorite robots. To these kids the builders were heros. I think the FIRST board of directors is missed the boat if they couldn't figure out someway to use the popularity of Battlebots to their advantage. I think they had an opportunity and lost it - because BB was willing and eager to form a relationship and would have probably compromised on the
format of BBIQ.

Even if FIRST had strong feelings and an aversion to destruction as the goal of robotics competition - there was no reason to insult the BB people. That is not "gracious professionalism."

Re: Battlebots snubbed by FIRST.
 

i have yet to hear of an engineer quitting after the first year because they were "bored as hell"...

Our first year engineers this year are returning because they love the experience an are hooked...i dont think they were bored as hell...

Quite honestly if an engineer quits on a team in the first year isn't in it for the "FIRST experience" or the kids they are in it for some reason that is not part of the first experience...


the engineers on my team are "heros" to me and they have inspired me to do things that i would have never thought about in the past...soo to know that younger kids feel the same way is good to hear...

-Joe Try Jr.

FIRST didn't loose anything when Battlebots came around. FIRST can spread it's message in a more appropreate matter than a comedy central show. FIRST has Disney, which is larger in the TV sector than Viviendi Universal (the sponsors of BBIQ). With all the back rubs goin on, Disney will put more plublicity of FIRST and Universal will and once the ratings drop, BattleBots will have nothing to support itself.

Disney and TV
 

Am I missing something? The only people putting FIRST on national TV are NASA. It doesn't matter if
Disney has bigger TV market share if they don't air it. Why don't you think they air it? Answer - it doesn't attract an audience. Why doesn't attract an audience, because the audience can't figure out how to score it - and it makes bad television. So I respectfully disagree that FIRST didn't lose anything by snubbing Battlebots. FIRST has consistently undervalued the power of TV to generate interest and increase demand.


You can say that soccer is a better sport than football because it is less violent. However in this country you can't attract an audience for soccer. Battlebots and FIRST could have cooperated, and improved both organizations. Even if in its wisdom the B. of D. decided FIRST wanted no association with BB - why did they have to get pissy? A polite well reasoned note might have been better. Why make enemies? Sorry to say that the gracious professionalism award goes to BB.

You know, I think FIRST should be more like Battlebots, since it would add new strategeryic edge to the competition.

Think about it:

You've got the goal, and your pulling it back to your goal zone, you've almost crossed the goal line, when out of nowhere 862 screams in engages a circular saw blade arm and completely rips your robot into two pieces, tossing the partially active remnants across the field with sparks sputtering out of cut circuitry and severed goal-grabbing arms flailing uselessly.

That would be exciting.

Re: Disney and TV
 

Disney has aired numerous things (A&E is owned by Disney, fyi), but don't forget that the movie is comming and probably more plublicity because of the Segway. Also, when the ratings fall, so will Battlebots, so TV is a bad thing for teaching. FIRST is doing good. BBIQ is the one that will fall once BB is off air, no word of mouth because they are used to TV doing it. FIRST survives on word of mouth and other non-TV PR.

I completely disagree with you. Battlebots IQ was filmed in Universal Studios as a pilot show. It has not been sold nor did it generate any revenues for Trey and Greg. They paid for the whole event out of their own pockets with the only intention of helping us, the students learn about engineering. Many battlebots builders put their effort into make it a succesful event by being mentors(Team Loki for me), judges, referees, and crewbots. In addition, there were many well known people as judges that found it to be a very good event to sponsor and help with. Not to mention www.teamdelta.com is an open sponsor, judge, and helper at first...they are also a well known Battlebots team. I see no reason why both Robotic Engineering events can collaborate to better teach the kids. Also, Trey and Greg are already planning the date for Battlebots IQ season 2.0, it will be bi-annual and the next competition will be some time around labor day. This one too will probably be completely funded by them. There is a large community of engineers involved in many forms of robotic events, www.secr.org is a good example. I'm just rambling now...but, I guess I feel strongly that both events are great for the kids. As far as saying that battlebots is a money making machine, I can't argue that - but keep in mind that Battlebots IQ has made no money for them as of yet. Battlebots has a contract with comedy central and has no affiliation with Universal Studios. Universal Studios only lets us use their studios to film and host the event of Battlebots IQ, two completely different events.

-Dallin

I highly doubt T & G are in it "just to help you". Ditto for Dean and FIRST. T & G know Battelbots will fall, but getting another pilot up and running with different people will draw in the money. Dean wants us to grow up loving him so we go work for DEKA or go out and buy a Segway. The reason why FIRST and Battelbots can't work is not Dean hates BBIQ, the reason why is simple, BBIQ has a contract with Universal, FIRST with Disney. It might not seem that big, Universal vs. Disney, but did you know that you could get fired at Universal if you put Disney merchandise in you cubical at central communications at Universal.

I see more of a corperate hatred than "lets all love eachother" thing.

hmmm....
 

would that be kinda like being a mentor on a FIRST team and being a judge for battlebots?
just a thought...

Well to answer your post from a timeline point of view, battlebots IQ was not announced until after this "feud" started. It has been around for longer than that. To be honest, the whole universal vs disney thing isn't even a good point because it'd be more like 'Disney' vs 'Comedy Central' and that really doesn't make sense. Dean doesn't hate BBIQ for that reason - he hates Battlebots, who knows why. I dont. The point im trying to make is - they are both worthwhile competitions and it should be acknowledged. I've never really met Dean but I have met Trey and Greg, and they seem like great guys. I look up to a lot of the Battlebots builders. Including Team Loki, Carlo, Jonathan(Ziggo fame), Inertia Labs, the list goes on. They are ALL great engineers and helpers. From what I've noticed there are judges and competitors from Battlebots that are either mentors, referees, or judges for FIRST. Atleast those individuals can recognize the usefulness of both events. I think it goes alot further than a simple "disney" vs "universal" debate. In fact, it doesn't really matter, it should be up to the students to decide what they want to do. They are both great learning experiences. My battlebots IQ experience was much better than my FIRST experience due to the fact that my BBIQ team was composed of 7 good friends which also participate in FIRST and we all got a lot of machine time. As opposed to 50 members on a FIRST team and everyone crowding around the robot...just my opinion.