Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think that we might be able to put the batons onto the less likely side, if not eliminated. That hint seemed a bit too obvious.

I remember that snow/freezing rain. I walked to the grocery store in it. I really can't see how that'd give him ideas though, unless its electronic "snow." Maybe they'll stick a transmitter set to throw static into the signal, and you have to program to counteract it. Sand and such would also be very bad for gearboxes, and maybe compreesors (are they filtered?). I can see FIRST being a little sadistic, but that's too much. I think a traction comprimised floor is quite possible though, like the top of the ramp in '03.(I might have the year wrong)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I remember that snow too - it was weird to see snow on top of the bus in Richmond in MARCH. I sure hope Dave was joking about that, but maybe he could mean a blizzard: the driver's vision will be blocked but they will have someone else (like the human player at the corner of the field this year) to tell them where to go.

Other that that kind of blizzard, I seriously doubt FIRST would make any kind of game involving something that could so easily damage an expensive robot. Even if something was falling from above, the robot would need to be completely sealed (And that starts a problem with heat not being able to escape properly). And like Rickertsen2 said, the playing fields will need to be somewhat easy to transport and not extremely expensive because teams will want to practice under competition conditions.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

You know, there is such thing as fake snow that won't damage stuff. There is also styrofoam peanuts that could work, too. I don't discount Dave's VCU regional hint. Obvious, yes, but, who knows?

And reguarding the snow, I was out there in short sleaves and shorts. Mostly because I didn't want to carry a coat/long sleave shirt/long pants around. Much easier to be comfortable in the pits and chily outside.:D

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I too only wore shorts and a tee, but I did have an old leather jacket to deal with the wind that a rarely wore, since the zipper made a lot of noise bouncing around. I agree with rickertsen2 on the snow issue, even if its non hazerdous material aren't going to be used, since the huge mess. But, you know we could be thinking to literally, it might be associated with something totally random in his mind, like sheep dogs or something. For example caves remind me of King Vitamin cereal.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Hi
I am a post graduate student involved with eLabtronics, the people who designed CoreChart.

Until I started programming in CoreChart I founnd it difficult to start programming in text assembler or C. CoreChart has enabled to me to pick up porgramming PICs in a short time. Most important of all CoreChart is an ACTUAL GRAPHICAL ASSEMBLER and not just a high level interface. Every one Icon is an instruction in the PIC assembler and hence CoreChart is used by professional engineers for complex real time applications! They use CoreChart to reduce prototyping time.

In Singapore High School students 14, 15 years are learning to use CoreChart for robotics competition based on the IFI EDU-Mini controllers. They then go onto dogin CoreChart PIC industry projects in Video Surveillance monitoring or home automation etc mentored by college students and industry experts. They are developing Smart kids in Singapore using CoreChart as what these 14 years old learn is actually pure assembler!


Good luck.
David

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Batons are used in track events in a relay race. How about a PVC pipe with end caps that has to be transferred from robot to robot autonomously. Or maybe the "goal" is the opponents robot. Each robot would have a basket in which the opponent tries to place a baton. Could the batons start on the floor as a pile of "pixie stix?" How hard would it be to pick a 2" PVC pipe from the floor?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I can imagine many ways to do it. If it turns out to be part of a FRC game, you can bet some teams will make it look easy, and I predict at least one will come up with something that makes everyone else wish they had thought of it.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Let's consider a couple more combinations of hints.
When you mentioned the driver's vision being limited or blocked, I immediatly thought about the appearent push that seems to be in place to have the CMU Cameras back in place this year. If this is true, and picking up "batons" were included, then it would make sense that the game could actually allow the use of the camera to aid the drivers vision during a portion, if not all of the match to guide them to the game objects, like a baton.


During autonomous mode, limiting the robot to ONLY use the camera as a sensor is another possibility. After all, Dave's mentioning of rules that "restrict" the use of certain items really only points to a rule that restricts the use of certain item, not what that item was. Here is the quote:Notice the "like", Dave didn't say "No threaded fasteners", but he did say a rule "like" that. :ahh:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

More hint removal/analysis.

Removal: hovercraft. Building a FIRST robot to act like a hovercraft and still pass inspection would be very difficult.

Analysis: English Channel. Difficult to cross without special equipment (boat, hovercraft, tunnel. We've already ruled out boat & hovercraft, and tunnel is impractical.) Probably going to be different surfaces, one much more difficult than the rest and placed in the middle of the field.

Analysis: fox in the henhouse. What happens when a fox gets into the henhouse? The chickens (obviously not Thunderchickens) panic. Two explanations: either that's all of us at some point during the season (hint release and kickoff come to mind) or something on the field will scatter if a robot hits an area. Remember the ball dump in '04? I suspect that 1) the game object will be easy to scatter and 2) that the game object will scatter if and only if a robot (fox) hits a certain target area (henhouse), probably in auto mode. Of course, I could be all wrong, and the game object is some form of chicken...

Removal: Whack the Billfred. Logistical problems (again). Billfred obviously can't be in 8 places at once. Nuff' said.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

So who's to say we're the fox?

And here's one question, do foxes carry off the chickens, or do they eat the chickens in the coop?

And the instant I type that something hits. Another name for a henhouse is a coop, kind of like Co-op, which is gamer slang for cooperative. A cooperative mode is not the traditional team multiplayer mode, but one where there is a single team "cooperating" towards a singular objective. Now could that mean that the game this year could be an indirect competition with the other alliance?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

'Winged Globe' has made a discovery about CoreChart and its direct correlation to assembler code. He is one of the few programmers who actually understands this. Most assume that because it is a flowchart program then it must be embedded code. CoreChart does NOT sacrifice any flexibility or access in programming at all but only makes the SAME programming graphical to avoid syntax errors.

The result is a Graphical Assembler which is used for Professional programming while being much easier to learn and start. Here at eLabtronics CoreChart has been used to create an intercooler spray controller program which predicts if the intercooler on a turbo engine will overheat and sprays water to stop this from happening. The real time system has 1/10,000 second cycle speed and is able to read 2 thermistors, 2 pots and 1 duty cyle signal from the injectors ( to 1% ) on a PIC16F84 running at 4MHz. Audizone in USA has given rave reviews on this product.

Similar products include a 29 unit array of DC-DC converters programmed in CoreChart for solar energy conversion used in the World Solar race. Thousands of students in High School are learning to use CoreChart. Some have gone on to do industry projects programmed in CoreChart sponsored by electronics companies.

We are currently working with some FIRST robotics teams mentor ( electronics company and college students ) to use CoreChart. We hope to continue with some of these FIRST robotics teams on CoreChart industry projects. The rational behind this is to enhance the employability of the FIRST robotics students.

Quote from an engineer at City University in London, England:

"There is a good feeling that embedded and robotics projects are
re-kindling students' interests. However, Assembly and C is quite a
challenge - even for professionals.

This is why I think Core Chart will succeed - its intuitive, simple to
understand whilst powerful as it is a full Assembler and affordable."

CoreChart is Assembler with graphical access. Most programmers do not look at CoreChart as closely as 'Winged Globe' and unfortunately they have assumed that CoreChart is another 'scripting' tool.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Do you think they will stick with the three-team alliance? I really liked that idea.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think they will for a couple of reasons. Obviously, the three teams require some more organization, and a more complicated game. For the first time we had to apply kind of an active traffic control as alliances.

Secondly, there are definitely more teams involved now. FIRST really has no option but to put more robots on the field in order to get all the matches in. FIRST could right now still keep a two alliance with difficulty, but in a short period that will be an impossibility.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think it would be cool to have a 2v2v2 game. That way you would get a older game play method ('92-'98) but still with the same team capacity. At a demo I also found out the LED team markers can flash green. :)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I kind of hope they go back to 2x2. I wasn't a huge fan of the congestion in 3x3.

Good point above on analysis of "fox in the henhouse".

Furthermore, CD is getting a lot of marketing from these eLabtronics guys--somebody must have found that we're discussing CoreChart on here. One of them emailed me and was asking if my team would like to take advantage of their technology. This is strange, because it implies CoreChart will not be shipped with the KOP, as my sources had indicated it would be.

Of course, he might not be privy to the FIRST-eLabtronics relationship the way my source is.

Man. This is frustrating. I know Dave's hints are usually obfuscatory, but this is bad. "You already have it" has got to be the most obscure hint ever. Er, congratulations, Dave?

--Petey

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I have to disagree with you about the 3x3 games. A 3x3 game is soooo much more exciting - especially for the drivers/coach. You have to keep track of more robots, you have to coordinate you actions with your alliance better (i.e. three robots that all want to go to the two human tetra loaders at the same time), and overall, six robots at a time makes the game so much more interesting.

About the "marketing spam" part, I would not say that someone who is posting the specs about a programming software application for FIRST is spam. These guys are working hard to help even the playing field, and create a software to help non-programmers learn C easier. How is this any different than promoting any of the AndyMark tranmissions here? Many teams may not have full CNC facilities, so designing their own shifting transmissions is out of the picture. So purchasing an AndyMark transmission or wheels may be very beneficial to them, in the same way that CoreChart would help people without a knowledge of C programming to get their robot programmed.

Both AndyMark and eLabtronics are doing a wonderful job to help FIRST - as well as every other company that is donating resources/time to FIRST.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Agreed. I edited out "Spam" in my above post. I was using it inaccurately.

But still--will we see CoreChart shipped with the KOP or not?

--Petey

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

On ifirobotics.com, CoreChart is only under the programming section for the mini RC , i find it odd why it wouldn't be on the FRC page instead....

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

All this talk of Batons has got me thinking...



:rolleyes:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Oh deary.

This one is definitely a hint. Reason being Dave posted in the Chit-Chat Forum, not the games and trivia but the Chit-chat. Now upon close examination we see that Dave Quoted the phrase "I am not a loser!!" Now there was only been 1 game in which that was law, namely Co-opertition in 2001 which was 4 vs. 0. I think there might be another hint in there but I can't figure it out.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

10/10 might be like 20/20 vision, something to do with vision again. Or the 80/20 extrusion. *shrug*

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I have a proposition.

Rather than wasting our time speculating about the game, why don't we all get together and focus our resources to something more productive. Our new goal: Develop a time machine. We'll send someone forward, then they'll come back and report.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I started to build a time machine, but i havnt had the time to finish it :rolleyes:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I once started to build a time machine. But then I went back in time and told myself that it wouldn't work, so I gave up on it.

-dave

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

This is certainly a hint! This years kit will come with a time machine!

And to prove it I will send myself back in time at kick-off to a few minutes from now to say "Hi" to myself.

Still waiting...

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

:ahh: A hint!!!

"..went back in time" - I think that this is pretty self explanitory here (something to do with previous years)...but I'm not 100% sure...

also, i think that Tom is on the right track... :-\

Either that, or Dave really tried making a time machine :rolleyes:

p.s. I'm not too good at putting clues together...I tried :o lol

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

How would you figure out it didn't work by going BACK in time? Don't you have to go FORWARD to when you've perfected it (or failed) to figure out whether it will work?

Or are you trying to convince us that you're really a pessimist at heart? Sorry, Dave, I won't believe it!!

Wait-- Now I've figured out the real reason you posted this! You're trying to discourage the rest of us from building a time machine so that we can't learn, in advance, what next year's game will be!!

By the way, my dad built a time machine in our garage when I was a kid. He used cardboard, not metal. :D

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I remember the "Snow Hint". I support the idea that it refers to "snow" as in noise, static, chaos, etc. I think FIRST has been in a tough situation as far as autonomous goes. It's depressing to see robots sit around for 15 seconds... yet they want to reward teams who are good at autonomus. The compromise could be the ability to voluntarily switch in autonomus and complete tasks in that mode for extra points. Or forgo autonomus entirely. This allows point allocation to reflect the "bonus" nature of auto-mode.

Oh, and I suggested it a while back, so they darn well better do it :-)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

That's what happens when I don't sleep.
I get grumpy staying up all night working on your danged prototypes. The thrust just ISN'T THERE! Stop trying to force it, we're not ready.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Look, I gave in on the bus shelter - you don't have to build it. So stop whining, get yer rear in gear, and finish up on the Viking Death Ship. We need it for next week.

-dave

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

WOW! Talk about a pair of hints!

Lets see: "Thrust isn't there", No force, not ready, shelter, "rear in gear" and my favorite "Viking Death Ship".

VDS from Viking Death Ship, could this stand for Variably Delayed Start,Visibility Degradation System or Video Display System (that goes back to my last post, read it and see) or..........

"Thrust isn't there", No force, not ready, shelter. Sheltered areas on the field that protect you from something. Might that be wind, rain (there's that water theme again), electrical interference.

Putting the two together: Robot control performed or enhanced by Video Feed. Certain areas on the field will either have the signal blocked or visually impaired to prevent seeing where the robot actually is forcing the drivers to have to guess or switch to autonomous (this could play into the "Fox in the Hen-house" hint).

Just my two cents in the early morning (well, early for me at least). :cool:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Does JVN have any knowledge of the game?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Ah Yea he does.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

More examinations. In line 2 he says "get yer rear in gear" which is definitely breaking lavery's first quote of prose, namely don't abbreviate, pronounce nuclear nu-KLI-er, and never use the phrase y'all in written prose. "yer rear in gear" includes three "er" sounds.

1.
RRR turns up no reasonable results on google, except for things about Land Rovers and Australian Radio. Inflatable kangaroos? In case you didn't know kanagaroos in more populated areas of australia tend to live on golf courses and lie in sand traps, where they occasionally get hit. Whack-the-Kangaroo-Billfred?

2. More intense searching reveals RRR could stand for "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle"? I am probably reading wayyyy to much into this one put you never know. Maybe 3 different ways to score 1 item?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

We all know Dave's hints are way more subtle than that. :ahh:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Horray for assonance! :rolleyes:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Just as in my previous post, the going back theme is apparent: rear in gear (if switched around, it says "gear in rear")...and the went back in time also has to do with going back. :yikes: lol

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

C'mon guys, we're all reading into these things a bit too much...Dave's whacked, he knows it, and he's having wayyyy too much fun watching us feebly try to guess this years game in an attempt to sate our impatience for build season.(If I'm not a psychologist for that one, the problem is not in my analysis, but in your perception :D. That'll be 200 dollars.)

In guessing so many things, we've almost surely found at least part of the game. We have the answer! (Well, Dave does too, but unless we get out the rack, we're probably not getting it from him...)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Once again I say, all this talk of Batons and traveling back in time is quite curious...

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

^ This would save FIRST some smackers! Just tear down the old tetras!

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Autonomous at the end, to set the field back to a ready state for bonus points.

Wetzel

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Wetzel, if you're right, Kickoff is going to kill thousands of programmers nationwide.

What if they don't reset the field--but require the robots to go autonomous from wherever they happen to be?

--Petey

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

The bounds of reality seem to indicate this is how it would have to be. Otherwise, you wind up setting the field up, running the driver control, resetting, then autonomous. Field resets aren't particularly fast--ask anyone who did reset in 2004 how much fun they had trying to reload the ball dumps.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Oh good lord, theres a good way to kill a true nerd's spirits. Make them use VI......haha!

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Yeah, but then again Jeff's idea wasn't half bad. If robots could get the field back to an "almost" ready state, it would take quite a load off the field re-setters.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Putting the auto last would make it far more important, a game like this years where you have to be the last to cap on each goal in a row to get the 10 points. This would make the auton much more important, teams would spend driver control trying to set up a good auton rather than spending auton trying to set up the drivers.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

maybe by this state ment he means that past sensors and game elements that didn't work as well as they thought will be reappearing. such as the IR and the CMU cam.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

FIRST Frenzy: RE-Raising the Bar?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

from all the hints I have seen so far that I beleive, I think that there will be some sort of object to hit that scatters (fox in the henhouse) baton-like objects (baton hint) and we have to pick them up, with a bonus for time?

and maybe a reduced budget. :(

also, this would also go towards the fine motor control robot...hmm...

pick-up-sticks anyone?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Maybe they are leading us towards a combination of previous games, so something like that. All this talk about the past and going back in time has got me thinking.... :ahh:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think Dave give hints and then watches our discussions. He mus laugh with all the insane ideas we give him. So essentially, it is our crazy ideas that make up the next crazy game!

Thats just my theory. :p

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

In the past its been a challenge to traverse more difficult types of terrain (as in not carpet on certain places like ramps and such)


Going along with the snowy weather and English channel hint,

snow = ice
hovercraft = traversing difficult terrain like water

Maybe they want to see us try and drive up/on a slick surface?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

The "Viking Death Ship" kind of reminds me of this story that was floating around about a solar anti-wooden-ship ray on Mythbusters and then MIT trying to make it work.

Maybe there will be some sort of light involved in the game? The CMUCam?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

OH NO!

Wait...remember at the beginning of the thread, when we asked Dave for a hint and he said "we already have it."?

Then this "time machine" post, which I originally read as just an offhand remark...but both of those together...

I think there's decent circumstantial evidence that suggests we're going to be looking at some element from last year's game.

--Petey

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Or he went back in time to say we have it, when in reality, he has given it (and thus we have it) but in the time he came from to make that post. Or we will have had it, when he does go back in time to give it to us. Or does time travel work only if it was suppost to have happened.... Maybe in a few days, we will know we knew it weeks ago. :D

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Time travel isn't limited to just one year - going by FIRST's "tradition", this year will be a ball year. Maybe the balls will be the same size as in a previous year's game. (Maybe soccer balls, playground balls, and big balls again).

But remember, you need to get to 88 mph in order to travel through time and you need flux capicators. Is this going to be in the KoP? ;)

Or...

A time machines would be able to travel forward into the future as well as back in time. So by saying that we already have the hint, could be refering to sometime in the future when we realize we have the hint, and that the hint was given in the past. But relative to today, maybe that has yet to be released.

But then we come to the whole part about time machines not being invented yet. However, if you invented one in the future, you could come back in time and give the plans to someone else to build one. But then the circumstances for the original plans may never come about, causing a weird tear in the fabric of the space-time continuum.

Ohh man. When time travel is finally invented, I think our brains will explode from trying to repiece together what actually happened during all the times in with we traveled through time. :eek:



BTW, this reminds me of the AOL Superbowl commercial from a few years ago. (There may be a commercial before the actual video) ;)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

No!!! Not HDPE again!!! Two years in a row was enough!!

As for the time thing: I doubt it will not have an element from a previous game. They all have had at least one element. A refresher course: 2003 had a ramp (back to 2000/2001). 2004 had a platform (back to 1999 and the "puck"), HDPE (2003), and a hanging bar (2000 again). 2005 had multiples of three (all games before 1999) and humans loading the robots (all games before 1999 that I remember). And of course, it will come in a new way that we don't expect and leave us groaning as we try to build the field and a robot. :D

Let's see, what do we have reasonably nailed down here? 1) game objects will likely be batons or balls (or both :yikes: ) and 2) there will likely be something in the middle of the field that is different from the rest of the surface, and 3) the game objects might be released by the robots during the match. This based on 1) Dave's hint about batons, combined with the FIRST trend and Dave's "fox in the henhouse" hint, 2) Dave's 'English Channel' hint, and 3) Dave's "fox in the henhouse" hint.
Plus the fact that it will likely have at least one element from a previous year, I'd personally say that this game will be most similar to 2004 or 2003. (as a guess)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Don't forget the 1.21 Jiggawatts of electricity. We will clearly need a beefier electrical system.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Well,
if I truly believed in time travel, then we'd expect:


1) we'd be living in caves (hmmmm...robots traveling through a tunnel maybe)
2) we'd be living in the dark (turn out the field lights for auto mode?)
3) we'd be living in the ice age or the oceans (maybe a water path?)
4) we'd be living without electricity (maybe 1.21 jigawatts of Tesla power through the air?)
5) we'd be living with dinosaurs (well, enough said about the judges!)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I'm not so sure it's inaccurate. Posting the exact same marketing material in several threads, and then emailing everyone who participated in those threads with a copy of the exact same marketing material is Spammish in my book.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Ah. I'd only seen my one email, and only the posts in this thread. Those were on mark.

--Petey

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I don't think they are batons, but rather something very similar. I was looking back to last year and there were a lot of hints that led to pyramids and lo and behold, many CDer's hit the pyramid thing on the head. So we need to figure out a connection to another object that baton's are in common with.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I can't wait until Kick Off! Simultaneously across the country there will be one loud cry of "Doh!", followed by the sound of smacking foreheads with the palm of a hand, then "Why didn't I figure that out? I saw the hint".

Indeed, hind sight is 20/20.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...65&postcount=2

I don't much care for guessing, as it's fruitless, but let me throw caution to the wind and predict that human player participation and the level at which it happens will be dependent on some autonomous goal.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Hmmm... I think he's just trying to confuse us.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think he does that a lot. Not just in that example.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Dave confuse us? So what else is new? :rolleyes:

I have seen that most of Dave's "hints" can be interpreted in at least 2 ways. Usually, one way is that it's a fake or a joke. After that possibility, there is often at least one other option. So, what we have to do is find as many possible options as we can and then figure out which ones are real. For example, the last "hint" would fit in very well with at least one interpretation of the "no metal on robots rule" hint, but that particular hint is most likely a fake, so it leaves things wide open still, though I like some of the ideas advanced in that thread about human player involvement changing based on robot action. So, I guess we can watch for more hints and wait for kickoff!

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Look at every game ever played for first, the main scoring object is 3-D. Maybe we'll use FLAT objects this year. After all, what is a baton but a flat piece of tubing. Maybe we'll be hanging hoops or something over a hook. :ahh: Until we find out, I will keep speculating. What is a speculation, but an idea that is not accepted by many.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think I know what the game is. We will need to knock over a stack of boxes that contains tetras, as well as bits of paper. :yikes: When you drive to pick up the tetra, your robot will slide on the paper which was spilled when you dumped it. After that, you have to move the boxes to your side, and stack the tetras inside of a PVC goal which will be located somewhere in the vacinity of here and there. To add a relay idea to this, you will need to split the task up three ways and use alliance members to do other tasks (one hits the boxes, one moves them, one stacks). Well, what do you think? :D


What is a speculation, but an idea not accepted by many

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I dunno, Chris. A baton isn't flat, in the conventional sense of the word--it's rounded. Very much so.

As to your paper idea--what basis do you have for the inclusion of paper? I don't think they'll have the paper for sliding, because that would be contrary to common sense safety issues, and we all know FIRST is big on safety. Would FIRST grease the playing field? No (and Dave, you're not allowed to use that for an idea).

No, I think someone who noticed the pattern of triangles and balls is right. We'll be going back to balls this year, with the possible inclusion of batons.

--Petey

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Nope. One year ('98 maybe?) the game was played with things called floppies, which are basically flat donut shaped objects.

[EDIT]I stand corrected. But in the scheme of things, 2 inches is still pretty flat compared to a 12 in tetra or playground ball. Or maybe I'm just stubborn.[/EDIT]

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

They were NOT flat, they were large discs about 2-3 inches high with Velcro on the edges. The year? 1999

Oh, and Petey, there is not really a pattern. It's been mostly balls since 1999, with 2003 and 2005 as exceptions. The field elements are where you need to look for the triangle, circle, square pattern (which tells me that there will likely be a triangular ramp of some form.)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

ALPHASTRYK may be going in the right direction. Think of the bowling pin as a baton shaped object. Scatter the pins (fox in the hen house) at the beginning by the autonomous mode and having to replace them in the driver mode. Or placing them in order in the driver mode and an knocking them down in the autonomous mode at the end. Bowling pins are placed in the form of a triangle. Question: Did the vikings invent bowling?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

A quick Google found: This was found at http://www.cubed.com/users/allure/FAQ2.HTML

So, I guess he answer to your question is no. :(
So much for the connection between bowling and the "Viking Death Ship" hint. For that I think we need to foucs on the letters VDS. :confused:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I'm still stuck on the whole shopping cart deal.

Maybe the game objects are to be picked up and hoarded after being scattered?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I found a picture of a floppy in flight. I still have one or two in my room, I use them in conjuction with my beanbag.

Wetzel

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

well, going along with the floppy idea, since there is a pattern, maybe it is that it is similar to the floppy but in a triangle shape, where we are in pairs or threes again and must pass them along to one side of the Field. that would incorporate all of the rumors.... however it could be that Dave is simply messing with us because it is fun to see what we come up with....
but from looking at the past things, i would have to say that maybe even we may have all three shapes, boxes, triangles and circles, where they are up in a net sort of thing(going along with the rain/snow idea) and we have to release them by pulling out a baton type thing, putting the baton thing somewhere special and putting the shapes in piles?
that would be interesting....
or maybe the field is in the shape of a triangle, where we must move baton like things(PVC, what the tetras were made of last year) into triangle shapes?
that would odd.... how would that work.....
oh, or maybe, oh, i like this one, we have to put our human players in the Field, they get buried under something (that the robot has to bury them under) and then they must use a triangle shaped floppy to get them out, kinda of like a lifesaver, incorporating the water, but maybe its a bit harder where the human player is in something and it like jenga.... wow, okay my mind is running wild and crazy now.....
anyone like my ideas? lol :D
I'm a crazy dork i know but hey, everyone seems to love it! lol (very happy that we are getting closer to FIRST!)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Okay I see it now, the first game where kids would rather sit on the sidelines than be on the drive team as human player. The paramedics at the competition will finally have something to keep them busy! Haha, here we go: the Comau Pico machinists and the paramedics can sit around the water cooler and swap stories about how they fixed up different teams! :D

lol, I'm just kidding. the human player concept would require some better human interface thought, rather than the typical build the robot, then figure out how the student will not get killed standing close to it. And paramedics and Comau Pico people really do keep teams alive. Whether it be someone hurting themselves while hitting something with a hammer, or fixing the thing the student hit with the hammer, they all keep us running at competitions.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I think we're due for a photoshop of Bill Beatty working on his baton twirling. Or Dave, maybe Heidi can get started on your next famous pose!

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

It's amazing the amount of milage these threads get.
Just 46 days to kickoff kids.
Hang in there.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

1997: cone shaped goal, round objects (innertubes), hexagonal field
1998: hexagonal goal, medium balls, hexagonal field
1999: octagonal puck, round floppies, square field
2000: triangular ramp, triangular goals, small balls, rectangular field
2001: triangular ramp (when not balanced), small and large balls, octagonal goals, rectangular field
2002: octagonal goals, soccer balls, rectangular field
2003: triangular ramp, square objects (boxes), rectangular field
2004: rectangular platforms, small and large balls, octagonal goals, rectangular field
2005: triangular objects (tetras), triangular goals, rectangular field

If someon HONESTLY sees a pattern in that, please explain it to me.

I think the Viking Death Ship has a lot more to do with this than we think...but in a very obscure way. IF it has anything to do with the Mythbusters episode, remember that their death ray was made from an octagonal array of mirrors - a shape that has been commonly used before.

Kev - who is sad to see the likelyhood of footballs and traffic cones slip away for another year.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

(for all the following calculations, simply drop the decimals) Write every letter in the alphabet, then number them from 1-26. Multiply all the numbers for FIRST (6*9*18*19*20) and you get 369,360. Divide that by Dean Kamen's initials (44) and you get 8394. Subtract the year from that (ie 2005 -> 8394-2005=6389). Divide that by the sum of the sides of on the scoring objects and the field. Divide that by Kamen's initials again. The result will be a multiple of 4.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

And I thought I had too much free time... ;)

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

My basis for the paper is this, if you place a liquid on the field, it would be almost impossible to clean. Paper on the other hand, can be cleaned with a vacume. The paper only came from me trying to imagine what game element would be involvoed that could limit traction, seeing as how so many people here think that is going to be one of the elements. My batons are flat idea came when I relized that it would be on of the only game objects that could be made from one piece of anything. In this case, probably pvc.



What is a speculation, but an idea not accepted by many

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Actually, I've been working on a simulation environment in LabVIEW to allow me to test autonomous code on the RC without requiring silly things like a robot or even real sensors - who needs that which you can simulate? :D

-Danny

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I need to amend that to read:
"Divide that by the sum of the sides on the planar projection of the scoring objects and the field. i.e. a tetra is 3 sides, a box is 4 sides..."

Many have speculated a baton. However, per my theory, that would require a 5 or 6 sided field.

Assuming a traditional rectangular field, the scoring object would need 3, 5, 8, or 13 sides.

Assuming a hexagonal field, as apparently has been used in the past, the scoring objects would need 1, 3, 6, or 11 sides.

My prediction: for the last several years, the final number has not just been a multiple of 4, it has been a multiple of 12. That leaves us with the rectangular field and 8 sided object or hexagonal field and 6 sided object. Because of the complexity involved with building an 8 sided scoring object, I'm going with the hexagonal field with 6 sided object.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Patterns. I would almost bet money on the game resembling one of the past four years (Zone, Stack, Raise and Triple) in a major way. I would also count on there being a twist that will make jaws drop (It's dave's nature!).


Add in the fact that we are due for a game of boxes or balls.

2001 Balls and goals with ramp

2002 Balls with goals in zones

2003 Boxes and ramp

2004 Balls with platform, bar and goals

2005 Tetras and goals

It's a cycle. SOmething tells me boxes but not like were expecting.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

That sounds like something from Numb3rs.

A six-sided object would be a cube or a rectuangular prism. This would not figure into the pattern of the recent FIRST games, in which even-numbered years use an odd-number-sided playing field object. This all seems pretty interesting that these patterns have been discovered, even though they may be very weird coincidences. What would the odds be that FIRST is actually following a set algorithim for determining their games each year? I'm guessing maybe infinity minus one to one against. Only in 45 days on January 7th will we really know. :yikes:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

The only real thing you can rely on in the games is the need for a good, solid drivetrain, and a good lift or equivalent device. Every year, there has been carpet (sorry water people), and there has been something needing to be put somewhere higher. Maybe FIRST will repeal that "no throwing game objects" rule this year!

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Maybe they'll have us use the camera, infrared, or some sonar device to find the distance to a target and we'll have to program ballistics calculations to shoot the game object into the goal...catapults anyone?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Actually, I was going more along the lines of those people that perform an analysis on numbers in the bible and figure out the apocalypse.

As for the object, I meant what you would get if you flatten it. A cube would be 4 sides, a tetra would be 3... So a six-sided object would be some kind of extruded hexagon.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

With all the talk about batons and my research into last year that found many people hit the pyramid hint right on the head, could it be that we will simply see the return of PVC goals?

Last year we guessed pyramids and got pyramids missing the insides. This year we guess batons and get batons missing the insides, or pvc goals?

(Also ironically at the FLL tournament I attended last weekend there where baton twirlers selling Kettle Korn at 3 bucks for a bag about a foot tall and 4 inches in diameter raising money to go to DC...) Is this some subtle game hint?

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Maybe there will be hexagonal mobile goals again?

All the speculation so far is about batons being used for the actual playing field object. But what if they weren't? Following FIRST's ball-nonball game pattern of the recent years, we're due for a ball game. What if the batons really represent parts of a goal? What if there is going to be really short goals this year? What if these batons would be connected to make a ladder-like goal? Or maybe a fence/barrier?

Batons are usually easily moved about and manupulated by a cheerleader or such, so would this mean that there will be all mobile goals on the field? Would this represent some sort of dynamic field element(s)? Or would there be goals that don't belong to any specific alliance color by default, but to the alliance that puts more balls into it (similar to tetra goal ownership)? Would robots be able to easily manipulate the balls, and score them into goals without a human player? Would human players somehow alter goal ownership?

For a person to be able to manipulate a baton, it takes practice and skill. Would this mean that there will be a very difficult task to do, that only a small number of teams can accomplish? Will the balls be odd shaped, like footballs? Would this mean that an arm/elevator would be practically necessary for the game?

And the speculation continues...


Just to clarify, when I said a six-sided object was a cube in my previous post, I was thinking of six faces on a cube.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

maybe some sort of hexagonal tube (baton + hex)? im not sure how useful that wierd numbers theory is though...pvc tubes would make more sense as game objects...wouldnt they have infinite sides because they are circles? hmm...

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

...Which you'll publish of course?? That would a a great use of LabView!


Back to speculation: IMHO the time machine was just a random remark based on the few posts above it.
The comment about batons and 'whatever's lying around the office' are significant. Just how is the question.
Also significant is the exchange, clearly planned (look at the posting times!) between a worker and a 'supervisor'. At least he doesn't have to build the 'bus shelter' - probably a good thing, too - but the 'viking death ship' (VDS) is clearly needed for next week (some kind of demo, proof of concept). It is obviously not an actual VDS, but when looked at it sure looks like something you'd name that.

What are the salient features of a VDS? Well, it is boat-like in appearance (long and narrow), maybe a sail-like object above, perhaps many openings on the sides (oars originally).

Hexagonal field would work well for alliances, and make the video easier than a wide narrow field.
An area of the field that is hidden from the view of the humans would be sooo cool, forcing more to push the CMU cam, which was disappointingly underused last year. Located in the center? Maybe a ramp to get up & in for some kind of bonus?
Also think about costs and ease of manufacture. Tetras can be cranked out quickly/easily/cheaply, as were balls, whatever they pick as the movable object, they will need a zillion in a hurry, without breaking the bank. PVC pipe sections with balls on the ends (like a barbell)?
Goals like a wastebasket?
I also like the concept of the bots resetting the field somehow, so start condition and end condition are the same.

Dave's just sitting there giggling at how way off, and how close, we all are. January 7 is coming soon, but not soon enough.

Don

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Well, two that come to mind are that it's on fire and it has a corpse on-board <grin>.

-Kevin

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

That must be it!! The Human Players will have to manipulate the batons--twirl them without dropping them--for the whole match! Double points for twirling two instead of just one. And think of the safety advantage--no more interacting with those dangerous robots!

Now all we have to do is figure out what on earth the robots are supposed to do.

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Now, if we consider the emphasis on safety, I'd have to say fire will not be part of the game, at least not on purpose.
As for the corpse, that truly has some interesting possibilities. :yikes:

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

Maybe the human players have to beat each other with padded batons (like what the military uses for aggression training). The alliance with the most conscious member at the end gets to have their balls in goals count for double. I'm gonna go talk to the wrestling team...

Re: 2006 game hints?
 

I bet the guys designing next year's game are having a whole lot of fun watching this.

Input:
In June we ran our own mini-competition, Mayhem IN Merrimack

When we were setting up the projector, an image appeared on the wall. It was like the animations that describe the game. It had the robots starting in their spots. And the field looked like a race-car track and the two ends were going up the diamond plate of the driver's station. It was like a racecar track half-pipe.

That's all I got. I don't know if someone did it for fun, or if they were actually working on the new game AND animation back in June.