Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I just got a wierd thought. What if the game pieces were hardhats?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Going back to the five bots thing, I was talking with another FIRSTer (who can name himself if he feels like it) when he brought up how his team had been asked at a few competitions to play with a pre-announced DQ to give everyone the same number of matches.

I'm thinking a neutral robot might be the way to go. Or, since FIRST spent all that money for a shiny new six-team field last season, perhaps TWO neutral teams (which would work as one). I'm not sure how FIRST could be sure the teams would really do much (other than encourage teams to play the game the way it was written), but I'm sure there's some craziness they could cook up.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

GPS doesn't necessarily mean positioning using satellites....

(Think 111... Think 2003)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Safety FIRST!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

The fact this thread is still currently active has brought me to one conclusion: Dave's game hint is much more important than the holidays.

The fact I posted this after reading this thread when I should be enjoying Christmas has also proved another conclusion: I'm no different than the rest of you! :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

we just find out several things:
1) Montana is Joe Montana, his first winning session was at 1989, like the first FIRST game. he scored 34 sec before the end, 1989 is 17 years ago, meaning, 17*2=34.
we think that it will be like this:
a. 17 sec auto
b. normal play (don't know how much)
c. another 17 sec auto
2)shovel's show - maybe a hard game with a lots of tackling like Joe Montana did??...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

wow, interesting....love the line of thought there...and who knows, i might just be correct

***
on another note...in regard to the "GPS" debate, i remember seeing a booth for a type of indoor differential GPS as ROBONEXUS 2004...i'm gonna see if i can dig up the info. I don't believe FIRST would do this due to the problems with cost and field setup (if i recall they're domes attached to the ceiling)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

after thinking about this and receiving info in my PM in box i am going to have to agree here that my last statement was a little too Broad. There are lots of ways to find your location relative to the world, including but not limited to: GPS signal repeaters, digital compasses, beacons, and a ton more. After thinking about this i would say that it maybe likely to have something like this, similar to the IR beacon in 2004.


BTW it was Dave Lavery who pointed me in the right direction with inside GPS

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hi,
In the word "tangling" the trigonometric function tan/tang is hidden.
Due to that fact, my opnion is that the arena will be, at least a part of it, a ramp.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Ok so after a good nights rest and a couple hours of not thinking of this at all...I've come up with that maybe, the "Bots" doesnt refer to robots at all...maybe something like bottle? Maybe the robots will have to move five bottles that are tied together with some sort of string? but they wouldnt be organized just a lot of chaos.

ok so in the past we've had robots that lift things with an arm, and push stuff around, so maybe this year we will have to like scoop something up and carry it around with something like This and since it's "obsessed" maybe the bottles will be covered in velcro and the scoop will have to have something on it that will hold the velcor and then another part to push it off, or maybe how ever many you can hold will be the given score?

I don't really have much of an idea for this one but it kinda slips in with the last bit , that they have to carry it around, maybe in order for them to count they have to be a certain hight or something like the scoop has to be able to go up in the air..or maybe with the whole dumping idea like i had before they will have to be put on an elevated surface?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

As Far as the 5 'bots thing is going, I am still supporting the 1984 reference that 2+2=5. But i think we've reached a point where all that really is left is speculation.
we more or less know the possible shapes of the game peice, if its linked to pasta. And we know that the terrain is going to be uneven.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

the only thing that comes to mind right now is seeing Montana's heights. a return to hanging off a bar? maybe the bar is green, something that the camera could read? hmm, thats all i got for now.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

consider the following:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...97&postcount=1

Dave usually spends his vacation working on the game animation, perhaps this is a twisted image of a scene from the animation.

interesting blue line, especially the bend near the top of the page......

maybe "5" has nothing to do to with the number of robots, but something else on the field perhaps?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I'm willing to bet on it being, in whole or in part, from the 2006 field components. This image was composed from a de-goalified version of the 2005 field. (Note the human player placement and the end zone lines.)

While Dave's hobby may involve tormenting us, I don't think he invests that much time in it.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I really hope he doesn't.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I just don't have enough time to read all of the posts to see if my idea has been posted already.

"a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show"

A shovel is also a spade. Which is a suit in cards.

So maybe, the game peice is flat and round like poker chips. We'll be manipulating giant poker chips.

It could also be like a giant poker game. We may never know!

Except we will in 13 days.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

How about ...

In a 1v1v1v1v1 match;

A scoring benefit obtained by teaming up with another 'bot for moving each game piece to goal. Maybe passing from 'bot to 'bot over an obstacle or to another level. And if you were prohibited from using the same team more than X times in a match, a good chance of a single team winning each match.

For autonomous at the end;

A target that is not revealed until the end, maybe by an overhead or elevated green light or flag to be seen by the camera. That would prevent early posturing before the autonomous period.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hockey has a blue line to indicate off-sides. The person with the puck must cross over the line first, or he must pass it to a teammate before the teammate crosses the blue line.
Do we have an "offsides" line this year?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

In past years the lines in the animation were actually the tape lines on the carpet at the competitions. Last year for example the tape was used to indicate the boundry of the 'endzone' and the area in which the human player must stay.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Tape? Pasta???

3 fish??? why 3?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i dont think they will get rid of alliances just becuase of how greatly gracious professionalism is pushed. as for other things i think the five has nothing to do with # of robots but number of game pieces, it is outside the quotations of the hint remember. i also think that the pasta is refering to those pool noodles and shovle to a log loader.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

For that matter, "Why an Angler fish?"

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i think by 5 they mean 433 n by pasta they mean *give them money!!!***
shovel's show = hug fest! *free hugs for everybody!!!
n seeing montana's green heights means a big pile of money!!! *to give to the 433 firebirds!!!!***

lol jk :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

In response to Michelle's idea(don't know how to quote), maybe there are 5 big goals in the shape of bottles? as for tangling...maybe the game pieces are tied to the goals or something? =) my two cents

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

according to dave the fish picture is for the 2007 game to warn us of a water obstacle, however who can believe dave

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

"In response to Michelle's idea(don't know how to quote), maybe there are 5 big goals in the shape of bottles? as for tangling...maybe the game pieces are tied to the goals or something? =) my two cents"
i am definatly agreeing with five goals but going with the noodle idea i think it will be more like corrals. one thing no one has discussed is human player options. the shovel could be discussing some kind of challenging course representing a show for the shovel"human player" to put on

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

has anyone given any more thought to the Hula Hoops pictured here? it occured to me that there is hoop-shaped pasta which looks strikingly like hula hoops. I personally don't think they will be, but just thought i'd throw it out there

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

actually, it looks like there're are four fish...boy, PETA's really gonna be on their case next year:p

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

That's a banana.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

looks more like a bannana, maybe representing a slippery surface like a couple years ago. the three fish are distracting the blue robot, maybe theres some distraction for the cmu cam

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

you mean you guys haven't seen pipe fish?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I was thinking today and came with the following thoughts:

What ever this years game is I think it will be a multi-demensional game. Triple Play, while fun to play, was pretty one demensional... You could either cap or place a tetra under a goal, or defend. From looking at the last two lines of the hint, I think that FIRST might be adding more to this years game in the means of scoring. Meaning that there will be more than two ways to score, and a lot more strategy involved.

When thinking about what the game could be I thinking about some of the things FIRST has to take into account when designing a game: How much money would the game cost? How easy would the game be to reset and run? How safe is it for teams, much less robots? How easy is it to transport? Can every venue handle such a game? How easy would it be for teams to replicate? How challenging is it for veteran teams?

In asking myself these questions, this is what I came up with:

When it comes to the field, I don't think that FIRST is going to dramatically change the field from the last couple years, simply because they have quite a bit of money invested in fields and those fields can be used for a wide variety of games. Team San Diego built a field that was pretty close to spec for this years Battle at the Border and it wouldn't be too hard to make the field wider or longer. I think the shape should stay the same.

I don't think that a multi-level field will be easy to transport, setup, reset, repair, take down and transport again. Plus it would be terribly hard for a team to replicate... Plus with fewer teams joining each year FIRST needs to make sure that fields are easy to replicate so teams can hold scrimmages and try to attract more schools to FIRST.

I think that there is a 95% chance that the game will not be water based... Something about electronics, a lot of water and people, I don't know. Personally I can't wait for the year FIRST has a water game. One of our engineering mentors and his dad (also a mentor) used to build boats :)

Alliances should stay, but there might be more teams per alliance. There should be two alliances with an even number of teams... Could you imagine what alliance selection would be like if alliances were uneven?

When it comes to the game object FIRST has to make sure that the object is challenging for veteran teams, but easy enough for rookie teams (we don't want to discourage them). Exersice balls probably aren't going to be used for a few years, footballs on the other hand would be a different story. FIRST has never used footballs, so just like tetras teams would have no prior experience manipulating footballs. What other box, circle or triangle shaped objects has first not used in the past?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

as for a 3d field i am thinking a feild like stack attack with a slippery surface(bannanna in picture) and a ramp ("mountain") with green distractions for the cmu cam("green mountain" and fish in picture)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I've actually tought about it but tought that i'd be to obvious, i mean i think the point of the clue is to get us thinking and totally confused, i dont think that they would put that out in the open like that.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I did a Google image search for Butte and I found some that didn't have slanted sides, but rather near vertical sides in almost all cases. Therefore, I think that this year's game will not have inclined surfaces, but rather a platform (with the top being higher than three feet) with a bar at one, much like the steps in FLL's 2004 challenge, No Limits. The object? Reach the top of the platform before the match expires and you recieve extra points instead of a multiplier (or maybe a fixed multiplier like 2x or 3x) becuase frankly, TV audiences don't like doing multiplication (especially with decimals) when they could be adding.



I'm all for water games, inflatable clownfish games, or whatever other kind of game FIRST could invent. However, the logistics of filling a 60x40 foot tank of water even a foot deep are astronomically nightmarish (that's a lot of buckets :D ). So a water game WILL NOT happen, unless regionals are moved to facilities with Olympic Sized swimming pool facilities (which we know they aren't this year).

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Well I've stayed away from thinking about this nearly all day. You know Christmas and all.

But, while coming down from a Christmas cookie induced sugar high, I realized you're all wrong. ;)

It's not Joe Montana the clue is refering to, it's actually refering to Frank Zappa's masterpiece; "I might be moving to Montana soon... Gonna be a dental floss tycoon" 5 bots tangling with dental floss! :ahh:

And the game name "Floss Boss" - king of the hill with dental floss!

And if you're buying what I'm shovelling, well that'll be quite a show! :eek:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

So withing all my clue meaning searching and maybe some hints on CD...

I came across the following

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?p=383483

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=38140

It has alot of game ideas so maybe ... just maybe it'll tell us something


like for example

Who knows..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hmmm.. Montana.. think about that..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Has anyone thought of screwing around with the word order?

like:

five 'bots obsessed with a shovel's show
a game piece green heights
and seeing Montana's tangling with pasta

that would be an example.

Not only that check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M...state_flag.png

SHOVELS, WATER, MOUNTAINS on the flag.. hmmmm

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Alrighty, I have faced the gauntlet of posts, prior, so the current melted condition of my brain may not be suitable to give this post substance. You are forwarned.


Assuming there is definently a raised platform, mountain, etc. on the field, I concentrate on the "Game piece obsessed with seeing heights" part of the clue. Now, the clue only says seeing heights, not always being on them. So I predict a return of the portable goal. You move the goal, filled with assorted game objects, onto the top of the platform, and you get the appropriate multiplier. Now the hard part is going to be moving a very heavy goal onto a raised part of the field....

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I think we've all just about had it with this clue, and i think we need to listen to the "Quotable Adam" as he puts it...

Just a little skippit of our IM

Adam - 1341 (10:37:38 PM): hey, what's up?
Me (10:37:45 PM): thinking about you know what lol
Adam - 1341(10:37:54 PM): haha give it a rest
Adam - 1341(10:38:00 PM): you won't figure out the game
Adam - 1341 (10:38:02 PM): no one ever has

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

yeah...but this is just so much FUN, not to mention good brain excersize over the holidays!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

not entirely true.. we figured out that the name would be tripple play last year... that sorta counts :-p

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Last years discussion did get very close to money... As a result I think over the off-season (when they weren't designing the game) the GDC worked on their hint-making skills. Or this years hint has absolutly nothing to do with the game. Or... Dave and Lil'Lavery have switched things up a bit by telling/showing us things that are true, knowing that we wouldn't believe them due to years of mis-guidence and mis-direction... hmm... curling robots anyone? :ahh:

P.S. - What does FIRST do with old game pieces?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

That does make an awful lot of sense. Buttes tend to be plateaus.

Yeah. Can we end the water game speculation now?

By Jove...

Good as inference as I've heard from anyone.

I disagree, "Quotable Adam." Last year, CDers figured out the basic tetrahedral part of the game, in that things would be pyramid shaped. We didn't figure out the tic-tac-toe thing, but that couldn't be expected.

--Petey

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

WAS there even a tic-tac-toe reference last year?...i mean other than the "Triple Play"...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

We've all had our theories, here's a very important point that people have missed so far...

If you know anything about pasta it's over 60% WATER! So what does this mean for the field? Probibly a mix of water (roughly 60%) and "dry" (roughly 40%) land. Oh, Or even BETTER! When you cook pasta, you start off dry, but then boil it as you add water! So maybe the entire field starts off dry and then is gradually filled with water throughout the match! Imagine the new drive possibilities!!!

From wikipedia, here's a few other interesting facts about pasta.

Pasta is made either by extrusion, where the ingredients are forced through holes in a plate known as a die, or by lamination, in which dough is kneaded, folded, rolled to thickness, then cut by slitters.

Fresh Pasta cooks quickly and has a delicate taste, but spoils quickly due to its high water content.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

oh man....that'll be hell for our drivetrain team
one problem though...how do we waterproof the motors? I'm not too concerned about the electronics, but you have to leave air holes in the motors, or the overheat..and if water gets in those...say hellooo to rust!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I only skimmed over the thread, so I apologize if anything here has been mentioned before.

The first thing that came to mind when reading Montana was Joe Montana. It seems I'm not the only one who thinks this either. Kinda lends to the idea of footballs for the game piece.

Then it came to thought that shovel could refer to a shovel pass in football, lending even more to the "football gamepiece theory". It could also mean we could get points for passing forward.

My first thought for "green heights" was the Ramp N' Roll hill back in '95. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it green? And it had a field goal on it. Perhaps we're moving footballs over a field goal on a hill for points.

Then there's the "five 'bots tangling with pasta". Sadly, pasta has a very broad definition. I thought of Rigatoni first, thinking that maybe there could be tubes/tunnels we need to go through. Then, I thought about your standard spaghetti, thinking of needing to pull ropes to get somewhere (possibly a random bot on another side of something). There could be a rope net of some sort as well. Or, in a suggestion I saw elsewhere in this thread, the goal could be shaped like a shell. It's my opinion though that the "five 'bots" could be a red herring (okay, I just really can't think of anything other than a pentagon for something).

Eddie's official (IOW, semi-crazy, but fun) guess: The game pieces will be footballs (heck, I'm willing to bet some Dew on this) colored for each team. There will be a bunch of long tubes/tunnels leading to and from the start, ball stations with one ball of each teams' color (around the outer walls and around the field), and the center goal, which will be a giant shell (actually, I'm thinking a large bowl ~10ft in diameter for this) on top of a circular hill. The idea is the smaller bots could go through the tunnels for quicker transit, while bigger robots have to go a longer way around various obstacles if they can't fit. A point for a ball in the goal, another point if the ball was passed to another robot before scoring (assuming there's alliances, you can add a point for each robot it touches, even if it's just two robots passing back and forth and chaining up massive points). Perhaps sort of a three point line where if a ball is shot and made, it's worth double. Maybe add a special neutral ball that starts in the center goal, and which ever team keeps it in the ball station next to their drivers' station gets 10 points. Of course, you can't have a hill without a bonus attached to it, so any bots on the hill at the buzzer get 5 points. And I'll be adventurous and suggest a pentagon field for this. Because I can. :p

And my longshot: We'll be hurling footballs over water while the field is shaking (look up Huang He; apparently, that's where the oldest signs of any type of pasta are found). And if that's true, I so get bragging rights for the year. :D

In conclusion: okay, the only thing I can really guess with at least 90% confidence is that we're throwing footballs (a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show - and seeing Montana's...), and there will be a circular hill involved ("green heights"). I also wouldn't be too surprised if there was a field goal involved ("Montana's green heights", related to the '95 goal). Would've been easier if I just got right to that, huh?

Final thought: has anyone thought of the possibility of Football not being the American version?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I think that water is an absolute impossibility this year. Building robots capable of withstanding and operating in water is just too much of a technical challenge, not to mention a challenge for event operators. Good luck finding a pool with sufficient stadium seating! Also a water competition would not be good for getting new teams because it would just seem too complex. Really - to you, what seems easier: a robot that doesn't need to withstand water, doesn't need a sealed area for electronics, and can operate just like a car, or a robot that has to be waterproof and submersible?

If first was going to introduce water, they would probably just start a new league. (How about a college league!?)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

just a side note, but can we NOT turn this into (yet another) water game discussion? (yes i realize i've contributed to it). the ONLY hint we have of a water game is the picture by Dave, and for all we know, he's just screwing around with some textures

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

There is a motto that we should keep in mind:

KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid.

We are all going into this complicated ball of thoughts..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

the year before we also figured we'd have to reach up and climb, and that nothing could be fired faster than 9.8 ft/s or whatever. So every year there is typically a pretty close consensus to what some of the game elements will be. UNFORTUNATELY its never enough to actually design a bot to hehe.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hey guys just a few notes that I think could head this thing off in a slightly different direction.

Accoding to the first entry in this thesarus, obsessed is a synonym for controlled. So a game piece controlled by a shovel's show? Perhaps the shovel part alludes to how the game piece might be manipulated, and therafore what shape it might be.

On a similar note, the pasta part has been picked apart quite a bit with conclusions ranging from game piece shapes to hydrality (it's a word now), but here's something new. Perhaps it refers to plurality. You never see talk about pasta as a single object, but as many pieces, and generally small. I'll go out on a limb and say many smaller game pieces that need to be collected (going on the shovels show/minining theory) and and put into goals. If the objects were really small (inches) that would lead to some interesting scoring possibilities, as scores would probibly have to be determined by volume, not number of object, also we'd see some very different collection systems.

Also the tangling is a synonym for mixing. Perhaps game pieces can be mixed in goals?


Oh, 5 DOES NOT REFER TO BOTS! Regardless of it's place in the sentance structure. There are many countless reasons previously covered about this. It's far more likely to refer to something more likely like number of goals, game pieces (that would be different, each alliance starts with only 5 pieces to score with), or even something more abstract, 5 minute matches anyone?

And here's hoping this inspires people to look at things a little different, where does the Human Player fit into all this? Are they shoveling? Providing communication to the driver for a part of field blocked by the hieghts? What then?

Anyways here's to hoping people are inspired :)




So in short:

1: Game piece controled by shovels show.
2: Pasta = plurality/small
3: Five /= bots
4: Where does the Human Player fit in?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Random responses to other posts:

Anyone see that movie of the same name; "Sky High" for some more abstract references to the rest of the clue by any chance?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303933/ :p I'm not giving up on my idea from 2004's clue carrying over to this year.

The only reason they barely work inside is because the transmitter of the signal is outside, and the receivers usually need a clear line of sight with at least one transmitter (satellite).

GP also could mean (a'la 2001 competition, and the basis of the Co-Opertition patent) working together as only one team.

Shall we try that again?

I would tend to look at Tckma's idea.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

So we'll be playing Save the Citizen?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

ok so this what our team has been going along so far
we have gone with the joe montana theme (1989, devided 34 by 2=17 before and after auto)

this is what ive been thinking regarding the pasta the green heights and the 5 bots,

first off the pasta has been run through the place over and over
and this is just another wacky suggestion, lets take the shoveling and the pasta toghether, shoveling pasta, but to gain points
thing of the playing field half full or more with a layer of pipes which are hard to drive on (slippery) or to big, so you need to SHOVEL them out of your way
much like a snow plow, the way of gaining points we think will be a football field, and probably your end-game position. I just saw someone saying
maybe it will be none-american football (soccer) and that also looks possible
since throwing objects in the arena seems kinda dangerous.

5 and bots true arent always related
but we have to remember that BOT in web-slang isnt necceserily a ROBOT
it is also another name for SCRIPT (as in mIRC bot\script)
maybe when your robot stands somewhere on the field, it opens the goal
so your teammate can score (soccer...)
5 goals? possible
anyone know the show ROBOTICA? how about 3vs3 alliances, and 5 annoying
robots,
maybe 2vs2 and 1 disrupting robot, that just bugs you.

im gonna go with the bot's being trigers, like weight triggers
once your robot stands on a certain platform it opens up the goal so your buddy can score extra points

another thing could be that it is 3vs3
but it is with goalkeepers
so you have 2 attacking 3 (2 defenders and a goalkeeper)
and your alliance keeper stays behind

5 bot's tangling with pasta (ramp field, gonna be hard to get the ball up there) a game piece obseesed with heights (the bugger is gonna be up there?)

I don't know to mcuh thinking about this

well that's my 2cents and 50$
good luck everyone and remember to have fun

peace.

-1577, steampunk, Israel

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

AHHHHH!!! Dave you are one tricky guy.

That bot he uses in the 2007 water game teaser is a plow bot... or a "shovel's show" bot.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=41024

Arghhh....

Why do I get the feeling that every little part of what Dave says or does is oh so relevant.

What does it mean?? What does it mean!!!!!!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Maybe there won't be any carpet??

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Well, Mr. Shovel-Bot is always picked on. It always gets bonked, or broken, or is not well equipped for the task at hand. Obsessed is a synonym for controlled.

Sooo, that would make the hint: A game piece controlled by a not well prepared robot.


Does that mean that when five of the robots are "tangling with pasta" the robot left behind can do something extra-special? By Jove, I think we're onto something!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i think that maybe Dave released that "2007" hint intentionally to point us in the right direction with the bot, that it may not have anything to do with the 2007 game but everything with the 2006 game. That banana. slippery surface maybe?

otherwise excelent idea about the little blue bot with the low center of gravity

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Considering the physical nature of FIRST in recent years every bot should have a low center of gravity regaurdless of the game.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

but many many don't especially the animation robots, which that one has the lowest

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

No one has said anything about the prime symbol ( ' )being in the first line of the clue.
"five 'bots tangling with pasta"

Five is a prime number. Meaning it's two natural divisors are 1 and 5.
Five Prime could mean 6 or 5 + 1.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

No kidding... A lot of tipping kind of makes you look bad, but does add excitment to a match.

Speaking of tipping, something cool I saw last year at Las Vegas was, I think on 399's robot which was able to raise itself if it fell forward. During one of their matches it fell forward and then a few seconds later started to raise back up. The picked themselves up and continued to play the match.

Good point...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

a shovel's show- either a hole or a pile that is made in making it

5 bots tangling with pasta- I like the idea of the foam "noodles" you use in the pool

Montanas green heights- 3 high (from earlier post)-

My guess-

robots need to place the foam noodles in a goal with small holes (about the size of mail boxes) and then somehow stack the goals 3 high?

I'm not sure this is worth spending so much time on since Dave's clues are so obtuse they are pretty much incomprehensible. But I guess inflatable clowns are out this year ; (

WC :cool:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I'll have a more definitive guess later on, but to all you who get the reference, a Dumpling is a type of pasta. :yikes:

Think about that, and then replace pasta with that in the first line. ;)

If you don't get the reference, search here on CD for the word dumpling, and see what you find. :)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Terribly sorry for getting off-topic but I can't resist. Notice how Montana is on the United States NORTHERN border? :eek:

Actually on topic. Dumplings are round, balls are round. Five and playground balls have a history together as five point balls... FIRST 2006: The Return of the Sphere?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

It depends on the game.

In 2001, FIRST gave away all the balls used during the competition, including the large "capper" balls.

My son, Josh, got the large green one off the Einstein field after the Championship, and had Dean sign it afterwards.

Why did he pick the green one? :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Family discussions over the clue brought the following realization:

Sam Spade was a detective on a radio show in the mid-40's. The show revolved around Sam Spade who solved various crimes and so forth. Spade is clearly another word for shovel, so this could be a big piece of the puzzle (or a very misleading coincidence!)

Almost all of the shows had the word "caper" in the title, which may be an important aspect, or maybe because it was a radio show there is something about radios or their frequencies involved. Maybe others who actually heard the show would know about any common themes and could enlighten us.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Actually, this discussion is a very carefully planned strategy of FIRST to get everyone thinking creatively. This gets the "brainstorming" process started before you get the game. This strategy is typical of many groups trying to get into the process; "Begin brainstorming on something non-critical to break down mental barriers, and open up the ideas and creativity. Once that is accomplished, move onto the topic that truly needs to be analyzed."
Whether you realize it or not, you have already begun "playing the game".

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

So the game piece for 2006 is going to be an inflatable Dean Kamen?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Random thoughts from looking through this thread:

- Green "buttes" plateaus that game pieces will have to be put on...5 of them perhaps?
- While it would be interesting to do a 5 robot match, we aren't due for a brand new IFI field control until next year (if I remember correctly, this might not even make a difference)
- Way out there thought: Shovel implies digging. Perhaps a large base filled with game pieces and you have to dig out your side's to earn points?
- While foam noodles sound good, I don't think they'll be game pieces because they break so easily, especially with all the bashing on the field. I kind of liked EddieD's idea of footballs.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

<off topic>hmmm, kind of odd....the most activity was DURING Christmas...and now that it's over, the rate of posting has slowed down significantly. unfortunately, there's no way to tell if that's b/c we've analyzed it to death, or something else.</off topic>

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Wow... good call. Especially since you'd figure if it wasn't part of a clue, they'd have just said the actual word "robot". Props to you on that one.

Okay, so I still have footballs as game pieces (as does half the thread). I wouldn't be suprised if passing (the shovel reference) is a feature as well. I also have my circular hill and possible field goal. And then we have the newly discovered "five' bots", meaning it'll most likely be 3 vs. 3 again. All that's left to do is figure out the pasta clue.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Time for some assimilation, broken into categories as follows:

Robots/alliances: Highly divided. Many figure 1v1v1v1v1 (going off the "five 'bots), but that is highly unlikely. 3v2 is also unlikely. 5v0? Possible, but unlikely, so the discussion has switched more to 6 robots on two alliances, but "how does 5=6?" is the hot item. There is some talk of a placebo bot, but who knows (other than the GDC, that is.)

Playing field: The general consensus is that there will be a ramp/elevated surface in the field, probably in the middle. It will have some form of green on it, and will be where material other than carpet is placed (if there is any).

Scoring objects: General consensus: pool noodles, footballs, or batons of some form. However, as people have pointed out, pool noodles won't wear very well. I personally suspect that the only pool noodles on the field will be used as bumpers on robots. Footballs are (possibly) supported by at least two portions of the hint. Batons are (possibly)supported mainly by one portion and one of Dave's hints.

Miscellaneous: CMUcam will be back, much to the delight of a few and annoyance of many. There has been talk of moveable goals, holes (likely location: ramp--maybe '03 style with the copper grate?) and bars for hanging.

Some of us have made predictions further up, I'm just putting the general consensus together. Maybe between Art, skimoose, and some of the other intelligent folks on CD (most of us), we can force a redesign of the game....

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

A thought just popped into my brain, but I do not have the knowledge in this area to get any farther.

I noticed the odd structure of the hint. Then I though of poetry. Then I thought that maybe the type of poetic structure could be part of the clue.
Does anybody know if this has any merit?
What got me thinking about this was the word " 'bot ", which may have been shortened to fit the poetic structure.
For example, Haiku format or Iambic Pentameter...?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

This was posted back on page 7 of this thread:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Just a guess even though I am jumping into the thread a little late. Green Foam noodles that you have to shovel up and load onto somehting and the human player can throw them too or laod the robot with them. Kinda like a big game of ring toss without the throwing. and there may be different levels of the goals you hneed to get like having the about the field like 2005 or having a medal stand sort of thing in the middle.

Or instead of foam pool noodles they can be like the tubular pasta that you have to load into somekinda thing that goes into the middle of it.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Not quite.. lol Although, I'm sure an inflatable Dean Kamen action figure would be quite the sight around the home. lol

I meant replace the word pasta with the word dumpling, or more ideally, "Lord Dumpling" for that matter, and it's simple (sort of) to see what the "five" means.

But, like I said before, my more in depth answer is coming soon.

Stay tuned.

side note: I nominate this thread for the one with the most quotes of other users.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Sorry, I wasn't around then, so I can't help. Ask Baker. :)

-dave

p.s. This is not a hint. But people won't believe it is not a hint, even when they are told that it is not. So go ahead and analyze the heck out of it. Let me know if you figure anything out...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Montana's green heights could refer to the Sanfransisco 49er's (Joe Montana's team) five super bowl wins ("green" is five in the color code). Maybe we have to fill up five bowl-shaped goals with something? Noodles? Sand? Something else to be shoveled?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

k so i dont know about all of it but im thinking that the shovels of show, well a spade is a fancy shovel, and so im thinking that it might have something to do with spades of some sort...cards, or shovelish...anyway the cameras coming back thats for shure

Good Luck
see ya in mineapolis
-curtis

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hmmm. so the flag of the state thats in the hint has a shovel and mountains... hm i think that has something to do with this. And where is the human player in all of this??? is there not going to be one next year?? And i find it weird that FIRST didnt write out the whole robots instead they put 'bots so idk it just weird.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

bot Pronunciation Key (bt)
n. A software program that imitates the behavior of a human, as by querying search engines or participating in chatroom or IRC discussions.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hey, I think ArkoRobotics is onto something:


So, look at the shovel: What's it pointing at(shovel's show)? ORO - What type of past sounds like ORO? ORZO! And by the way, orzo is a long, rice shaped object. Almost like a football. It also means barley in Italian, which is even more football shaped!


Coincidence? I think not! So, it seems there is reasonable evidence that we are using footballs this year. This definently supports the baton hint interpretation. But, decide for yourself. Wouldn't be the first time we were all wrong.:rolleyes: The ORO is also kinda on a butte type thingy, once again supporting the butte type field obstacle. Eh, sounds pretty sound.

Dave, kudos to you and the GDC! It would probably take me the entire off-season to create the game hint, let alone the entire game! Like Elgin said, it seems like much of the things you post are thought out and significant. Well, alot of them are thought out...;)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

One word: Brilliant!

less than two weeks left until we find out for sure.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

The wording of this clue was chosen very carefully, as Mme.Miscellania found that this clue is in the form of a 8-10-8 haiku. If they had put "robots" in instead of "'bots", this would not be a haiku. I really think there is something behind the poetry behind this clue. The obvious lack of capitalization and punctuation leads more credence to the fact that this is in fact poetry. So why 8-10-8 haiku?

Can this 8-10-8 be refering to something in the game? Will there be a 10' high goal/hanging bar on the center ramp/stairs, and two 8' high [possibly mobile] goals at each end of the field? Or can the form of a haiku (which starts out at a set value, increses by two sylables, and then goes back to its original value, as in 5-7-5 or 8-10-8) lead us to something in the game? Will there be something that is flat, goes up 2 feet (or inches) and then returns to normal in the field? This would lead us back to the Butte idea.

Would there be a simple 2x4 flat on the ground that spans the width of the field, requiring teams to have at least 2" or ground clearance if they want to go past/over it? Dave did mention this post in reference to someone talking about implementing a mecenum drive this year. With a 2x4 spaning the field, a mecanum drive would prove to be a difficult drive system to implement successfully.

Okay, now to another issue. There will most likely be a rectanglar field this year, with a similar [if not the same] size to last year's field. The field will most likely not become bigger. Let's go back to the regional logistics issue. Some competition venues (especially off-season events held in high school gymnasiums) simply cannot hold a pentagonal or hexagonal field with 15ft plus side lengths. When FIRST actually did have hexagonal fields, there were no off-season competitions to worry about. That is all changed now.

This year's game (at least playing field wise) will probably be similar to 2003 or 2004, with a large step/ramp in the middle of the field. This will be the case because of television/audience viewing. In the 2005 game, as exciting as it was for the drive team/coach to try to keep up with everything on the field at once, the audience was often at a loss for what was going on. In their minds, all they saw was robots going everywhere, deposisting "little triangles" on top of seemingly random "big triangles". At least with the 2004 game, they could tell pretty easily that the point of the game is to get more balls (both small and big) into your goal than the opponent does into theirs. Let's all remember that a large portion of the audience doesn't spend six weeks memorizing the rules of the game. ;)


With about two weeks to go until Kickoff, let's start trying to actually make a game out of all the suggestions/ideas so far in this thread. I may be no Car Nack, but using previous ideas from this thread, I am trying to make a game to go along with them. ;)

Let's take this clue deciphering to the next level. :cool:


Here's what I thought up, the new 2006 FIRST game: "Sky High Frenzy"

This year will present us with a simple objective - get more of your alliance's color footballs into the goals. There will be a 3x3 game, with a field the same size the 2005 field - 27' by 52'. I am guestimating that there will be a pentagonal ramp (with maybe a 1/3 angle, and 8 or 10 foot sidelengths at the base) in the center of the field, with a flat top. This flat top will have one neutral (aka "low goal") in the center of it. Either alliance will be able to score footballs into this "low goal". Footballs in this "low goal" will be worth 5 points each. To prevent a robot from simply pushing footballs into this pit (or from robots falling into into it), a 18" wall (made of aluminum pipe and green Lexan panels) will surround it.

In the middle of this "low goal" pit, there will be a 10' high "high goal". Any footballs in this will be worth double (10 points each). This high goal will also be neutral. Whoever has more balls in the center goal (which includes the "low goal" and the "high goal"), will gain a 2x multiplier for all of their balls in the center goals.

Each alliance will also have one mobile goal, measuring 8' high. Each alliance will only be able to score in their own mobile goal.

There will be eighty footballs scattered about the field, with forty red ones and forty blue ones. There will be an additional eight footballs for each human player of the correct alliance color. This makes a total of 128 footballs. The footballs will be in four rows of twenty each on the field. To make the game interesting, one set of each alliances' balls will be located on the oppisite end of the field. Robots will be able to score the footballs themselves, or pass them to human players (like 2004), who would throw be able to throw the footballs into any of their three goals (their own mobile goal, the "high goal" or the "low goal".

If a team gets onto the ramp at the end of the match, they will get either a 20 or 25 point bonus. There will only be room for one robot one each of the five sides of the pentagonal ramp.


Okay, enough brainstorming for me for one night. Now its your turn to make revisions, additions, propose entirely new objects, or make a totally different game. Let's all get that pinkish grey blob in our heads into high gear by Kickoff! :p

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

wow. i have just one question how are you guys coming up with this. i have heard of thinking outside the box but this blows the box up also. i also think that many people are still skipping somewthing crucial. the bannana in the blue bot picture. i think that the bannana represents a low coefficient of friction surface like a few years ago. just my opinion

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

While I'm not quite ready to take the plunge like Art has, I did notice something of interest. In this picture by Mr. Lavery Mr. Shovel-bot is shown surrouded by a line. Upon examination such a line exists no where in the 2005 animation. I don't have the '04 or '03 animations available and they appear to have been lost in the shuffle on NASA's website. However, I don't recall said lines on either field, nor do I see them in picture from the photo gallery. Unless we are being hoodwinked, which isn't exactly a new phenomenon, we are looking at part of the '06 field.

Mr. Shovel-bot is almost entirely enclosed by the blue line, except in the top of the picture you see the line ends. From the supposed size of these robots I can gather that we are seeing around 4 feet of at least an|_ shaped line, more likely a |_| shaped design. This begins the question, why is the robot facing the line? Are we viewing the loading zone of 2006?!!

So the whole point of this post? Folks, there aren't going to be people scoring footballs or whatever the game object is. There will be people giving said object to the robots for the robots to score.

PS: I'm still trying to figure out what that bannana is there for. Is it hiding something?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I read every darn page of this thread.

With that said, no one has mentioned the fact that Joe Montana went to Notre Dame. Notre Dame's colors: green and gold. Does it mean anything? I don't know.

I am putting my money on footballs as the game piece. I am putting someone elses money on 1/2 the time you play offense and 1/2 the time you play defense.

-Paul

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

well, i dont follow footbal can someone help me out. who is joe montana. i know stupid question but cant help aking. other than that i gotta agree with pual. wait a minute if this thread has sucked paul in wheres JVNeun?lol :confused: . well thats it for now

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

No problem, I don't follow sports too much either, I just know of Joe from other people loving the 49ers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana For you.

Oh, and for all the Montana state references, here's one for you.

"In 1993, the town of Ismay, Montana temporarily changed its name to Joe, Montana in an honorary gesture."

1993 huh? What was the game again in that year?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Joe Montana career capsule.

We're probably talking about the greatest QB of all time. (And this praise is coming out of the mouth of a die-hard Cowboys fan!)

One thing about Joe Montana that hasn't been touched on, is that he won two Cotton Bowls while playing for Notre Dame. I have no real insight as to what that could mean, but I'm sure one of you will come up with some sort of theory.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

The 1993 year was called Rug Rage.
http://www.firstwiki.org/Rug_Rage
Everybody has perceiving a water game as a game where robots are submersed in water. What about a game where you must manipulate water? Has anyone ever thought of how to manipulate a fluid?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

five 'bots tangling with pasta -- Not sure about this, but i am betting it has something to do with the robots being tethered
a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show - Something scoop able
and seeing Montana's green heights - on/near/around the rockies in Montana there are an awful lot of Golf courses

My guess is the game piece is Golf balls, a whole lot of them being scooped up

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Well, after reading this entire thread after getting home from vacation, i have my own conclusions.
(the numbers with decimals are a result of my laziness to replace all the ones after it)
#1. I think 5 robots is unlikley, but still possible
#1.5. I think the 5 prime idea was great. I am all for 3v3 again.
#2. Footballs seem likley. However, so do batons. pvc with footballs on the ends? :confused:
#2.5. I think there will be a raised, center object. A pentagon shaped object, that has ramps coming off of each side. 5 spaces for robots, one team does not have a chance for extra points at the end. Maybe a goal in the middle, but maybe not.
#3. The fully listed-out game a few posts ago seems possible enough, but do you wanna set up up to 80 footballs on every two minutes? 5 or 10 green footballs seems mor likley. (like vision tetras?)
#4. I think "oro y plata" means "gold and silver" in spanish. (correct me if im wrong). Maybe there will be a few gold + silver objects worth Über points
#5. Thinking back, is Montana too far north to have significant spanish speaking segment of population? maybe its french.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

1) It is spanish, and that's what it is meant to mean on the flag itself.
(I'm glad somebody finally mentioned this. - I won't have to explain myself in depth when I come up with my long hypothesis post later on. w00t.)

2) When the flag was made, the country was still divided up into territories. Spanish settlers could of had a larger role than they do now in Montana at the time as opposed to the assumed large population of French(Canadian) who are now currently just north of Montana in Canada and may be in Montana as well.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

you've been hinting at this for a while...just how LONG will the post be anyways???:ahh:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Oh.. it'll be a doozy.. I'm just glad I won't have to share everything I thought of.. cause some people are starting to stumble upon some connections.

Tomorrow probably.