Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

What if the end zones were elevated and green? Then if autonomous was at the end, you would have to get on top of the end zone using the camera.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

ummmm
1:autonomous at end would be dangerous and cause problems if u couldn't get ur robot in the exact right spot. u would hit objects, robots. if ur robot is damaged there is even more damage.
2: if its not autonomous whos to say wether ur actually using the camera or just driving it on.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

There are already plenty of chances for the robot to crash into things as it is. Teams would find a way around this, just as they figured it out when autonomous was introduced. I don't think this would be a major issue.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

ya but but but thats more thinking to program!!!! :ahh: especially for me!!!!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

yes, but has FIRST EVER made an easy challenge? it kind of defeats the purpose of having a "challenge"

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I'll second what ^ said.

Easy, they just shut off the OI like they normally would at the beginning of a match. Or am I misunderstanding what your saying, why would the CMU be involved out of autonomous mode? Actually the idea of autonomous would definitely make the game interesting. No guaranteed fixed place or direction, you would see much more complexity in how sensors are used and the fact that field conditions would be different every match would spurn so interesting object avoidance systems. I think it would add a level of reality to the game play, of coarse it would also add a level add difficulty too. If I remember wasn't their some rumor of an extended autonomous mode earlier this (last) year?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

hmm since u put it that way sounds fun but what about new teams who don't know much about all these sensors??? thats a huge challenge for them.. i'm the only one on my team this year that knows anything!! that'd be alot on me to come up with all that!!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Like Dean says, it's not (and is not meant to be) fair. :)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Krispy Kremes? I have to start being wrong more often...

Well then in that case if we are seriously reconsidering the robot's size then we can reconsider how many robots would be on the field at once...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I think that almost every robot in FIRST is addicted to Krisy Kreme...which makes us all go on the nifty "24 hour weight loss plan" the night before ship date :P Maybe we can cut back this year.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

who says you have to do it all yourself? this is a TEAM effort...teach them something. Who knows, with a little luck, you might just learn something yourself! Last year's rookie teams must've felt discouraged by the autonomous mode, but i didn't see any of THEM giving up...if anything they were trying the hardest...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Wow! Can I be wrong too? Please!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I've spent the last three days going through about 3/4 of the posts in this thread. My head is about to explode!!! I'll get to the rest, but I can't resist throwing in my thoughts....

shovel's show....Another name for a shovel is a spade. And spade's show is/was 'Just Shoot Me'. Granted David Spade was on SNL, but he became more famous for his role on 'Just Shoot Me'. Maybe we are shooting, throwing, launching something.

Montana's green heights....I am on board with the Joe Montana/Notre Dame football interpretation here. The Fighting Irish. Sounds like green to me.

five 'bots tangling with pasta....There are pasta shells that are shaped like footballs.

So....Put them all together and you have a field littered with red/blue/green(bonus points?) footballs which certainly could/would tangle some drive trains. and robots collecting their alliance color of footballs and returning them to a human player to be thrown (or shot) into a goal.

Or maybe it's robots collecting the footballs and launching (shooting) them toward a green goal located by the CMU cam.

Or maybe I'll just wait until this Saturday and find out with the rest of you!!!!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

After a little bit of searching for things that FIRST might use that are about $125 dollars, I found everything from waterproof GPS units, to laser optical sensors, to photoelectric detectors. :eek: Luckily, there are only two days until we find out what it all means...

Here are links to some of the things I found that were at least somewhat related to any of the ideas in this thread:

Laser Optical Sensor: - $125
Link: http://www.bmumford.com/photo/camaccess.html

Infrared Beam Sensor: - $125
Link: http://www.bmumford.com/photo/camaccess.html

Garmin Geko 201 GPS [Waterproof] - $124.99
Link: http://ctech.zoovy.com/product/GARGEKO201

Photoelectric Detector - $124.63
Link: http://www.alarms-r-us.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2022

AVS-801 CCD Camera - $124
Link: http://www.fantasticfurnishings.com/avs-801.html

Digital Scout Team Edition - $124.77
Link: http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cl...coring=p&hl=en

Football Yard Markers - $124.99
Link: http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...adv_X SG10001

Football Training Blocking Dummy - $114-$129
Link: http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cl...coring=p&hl=en

Football Post Pad - $129.92
Link: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...30660805102498

Kicking Cage Replacement Net - $125
Link: http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cl...coring=p&hl=en

:eek: 18 ½ Dozen Krispy Kreme Donuts - $125
using Price of $6.75/Dozen

What did Dave cook up for this year's game? Could it be a robot donut eating contest?!? :p

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't think so... If a robot "sees" wrong, that's a ball in the audience. Also, in the past the rule has been no untethered projectiles, and tethered ones had to stay under 1.5m/s. They have a good reason for this (safety) so i don't think they'll be changing it unless they enclose the entire field in Lexan...which is not only REALLY expensive, but it makes viewing harder too...although i suppose they could use mailboxes for that (viewing might be a problem tho)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Agreed. That portion of my post was to be taken in jest. But we clearly could have a human player throwing/shooting a ball. We did it in FIRST Frenzy: Raising The Bar did we not?!?!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

yup, tossing the ol' pigskins around wouldn't pose a problem...except that i can't throw footballs..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Going back to the football theme, in football games, teams going for a field goal have to kick the football between the goal posts. But what's there to stop that football from going into the audience and potentially hitting someone? A net. It can't be that expensive to hang some cheap netting around the field to stop stray footballs, can it?

Maybe this is all just wishful thinking, since I've always wanted to have the robot throw/shoot scoring objects into the goals, program in some ballistics calculations, targeting systems.... oh the possibilities.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Two years ago, FIRST Frenzy required shooting balls into a basket from ~15 feet away and no netting was used to protect the crowd from either bouncing or badly thrown 4-square balls.
But if field goal kicking is one of the tasks, some netting might come in handy.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

good point. Dang, but I'll be in even WORSE trouble if i have to kick field goals...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i know what is meant by kicking field goals but... ya it would be bad cuz a lexan and aluminum structure would really hurt to kick, so if thats the case make sure to wear steel toes.. haha poor humor..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

And it's an open secret that we'll have that Easy-C compiler with us this year.

At my heathen college, at least two people on my dorm floor didn't know it when I began to play it :(

Have you not read Dave's posts championing a 1v1v1v1v1 game? I think that may be where we're headed...

Did you not read last year's game hint? You wouldn't call the fact that Triple Plays were performed by John Neun and George Harrison in the 1930's obscure?

Then you didn't read the thread...but I agree.

Bucko, what kind of mailboxes are you talking about? Because I'm $@#$@#$@#$@# sure that Matt Leinart couldn't throw a football into my mailbox.

If you're talking about a big blue, side of the road mailbox...than maybe. But I doubt it.

I assure you that you will have a lot less trouble programming this year with the new coding system.

Two guarantees:
1) No field goals (as much as I loved Flutie's drop kick)
2) No robot projectiles

I think it will be footballs, and the goal will be on a central truncated pyramid. In it, rather--a deep depression in the top of it.

Aw hell, why not throw out another couple halfass predictions.
1) green cmu cam
2) autonomous at end of the match--robots must stand on the ramps of the pyramid to get points at end
3) 1v1v1v1v1. Why not make it exciting?
4) no goals near the sides of the field, to minimize errant throws into the audience.

Why is there no one else on this thread at 2:50 AM? Are there no other college students on this board :)

Well, we'll see in two days won't we!

--Petey

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Just a thought about the CMU cam since it keeps getting brought up.

We couldn't get the thing ro stay callibrated because the light conditions varied so much at the competitions even day to day, so unless FIRST solved this problem with say powered LED targets on the the scoring object and goals or something else to eliminate this issue I have difficulity in believing they will just give the same camera again.

It kind of like the IR beacon from 2004 it was better in theory than in the practice of the competitions because there were too many interferences when you got to the competition the FIRST hadn't accounted for. I would hope that for any new sensor this is considered before it goes into the kit again.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

First off, forgive me if I break some unwritten rule that I haven't read yet, but I just stayed up till 3:ish reading through 42 pages of ideas we've come up with from three lines of text hints. Amazingly, I've got some ideas nobody else has mentioned yet.

In a very particular order... (random) ^__^

the 5 bots with pasta, thing. 5 pasta stations. two on each side of the field, one in the middle. fits with the symmetry idea, doesn't it?
~or~
yes, more on the pool noodles. maybe there will be a bonus noodle cap that there is only one of. I like my 5 legged octopus idea, cause it'd be cute.
~or~
interesting things with autonomous could happen this year, like one bot on autonomous at a time with the game divided into 6 equal segments. I'll finish with the rest of my ideas later, because I have to go to school now. YAYS!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Seeing how this is the game hint thread, I will venture my guess prior to ranting. . . . then I will rant.
'First thing that came to mind when I saw the word pasta was pool noodles. I think that these are plenty sturdy to use as game pieces and they could be really fun to manipulate with a robot. As for the 5 'bots clue, how about if they give us vex kits (or similar) that allow us to make 5 robots per team. An alliance, then, might be made up of all the robots from one team. That would allow for a smaller (more economical) field also.
Montana's green heights. I am thinking that this isn't related to football. I figure this is a structure that resembles a mountain and perhaps something green that the CMU can pick up and track.
As for the shovel's show, the first thing that came to mind was a pile rather than a hole. Perhaps you have to make a pile of a certain color of pool noodles. That, again, would bring the CMU and green into play.
Yet another guess is that on top of the mountain is a randomly moveable hole with a green rim around it into which you have to place pool noodles that your robot has collected from the field. That 5th robot is a part of the playing field and it is actually a big robot that can pull or push your team's robot out of the hole when it falls in. For autonomous, you have to find the precisely placed/colored noodle that will release the other noodles or give you some related advantage.
Now for the rant. What's this about an extra piece that we have to buy? Didn't that $6,000 that we paid go towards the kit (as well as costs associated with putting on a big travelling show)? It seems that a $125 part, especially one discounted to $58 when purchased in bulk, could have been thrown into the box with the rest of our parts. Perhaps these are the afformentioned pool noodles. After all, we had to buy boxes for Stack Attack, PVC and end-pieces for tetras, etc. I guess that would make sense.
I guess I also just talked myself out of a rant.
Good luck teams!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Yeah, what doesn't make sense is where would you put them? Assuming retail here: $5/noodle, $125 worth of noodle- that's 25 noodles. That's a heck of a lot of noodles to put into your car.

Assuming your standard 4" diameter, 48" long pool noodle... that would consume a volume of 20" x 20" x 48". I guess it could fit in most cars? :confused:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

they have already used field goal uprights as the goal.

that was 1995, ramp and roll. fyi, this was also a 1v1v1 game.


man i'm getting old....

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

for a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show... I think someone was right when they thought of spades and poker. (credit to my senior English/literature teacher for getting me to think of alternate meanings and synonyms of shovel's show. I am working on the football assumption as I like football a decent amount and it hasn't been done before in FIRST that I'm aware of. Ok, connections time. in poker, at the end of a hand you SHOW your hand. another word for shovel is spade. What is it called when you show all spades? A flush, right? Now we just replace shovel's show with flush(ing) and what is the first thing we think of that has to do with flushing? If you are like 90% of the population, you should know what I'm thinking now. I think we will be throwing footballs through a game piece deserving of flushes. a toilet seat. Can you imagine how much fun that would be for everybody involved? I sure can. Granted, I suppose this could be considered a long shot, but hey, its my pet theory now. also, five cards in a poker hand, you "see" someone an amount, and can "raise" the stakes some if you so choose. And as for the "green heights" has anybody else seen how much poker has been on tv recently? there's a fair amount of green felt on a poker table... and cash too...

I think maybe the noodles must be dug through to retrieve the footballs with which to score. and for the heights, I think there will be a platform of some sort in the middle of the field. yeah, long shot, huh?


A toilet seat is a much nicer target than a mailbox size wise, anybody know how much a toilet seat costs?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Sara,
We're not getting old we've only been out of college... 4 years
Nevermind, we are getting old.
Pete

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

He could be on to something. In the case that my football idea is off, and it is something to do with spaghetti shaped stuff/batons/something else, I could easily see bowls in the corners.

But again, 5 bots...why not 6? and why the contraction to 'bots, aside from an 8-10-8 haiku?

Very bright.

Very smart newbie here!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

$7.84 at Home Depot. Bemis White Round Toilet Seat Model 70BPA 000.

I know, I know..... Get back to work and stop reading CD so much! :o

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

its my 4th year on the team, so I'm not really new to FIRST, just the CD forums, and I'm a girl (only one in an electronics class out of a school of over 2000 students, YAY, I'm special!) I'm used to being "one of the guys" and prefer it that way, its much more amusing when looking for the nuts somebody lost :yikes: . Its also fun to see how people react when I tell them I'm a girl.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Actually I checked the math and if you are using basic pool noodles that may be an overestimate. I'll round up on everything here for a worst case scenario. Your average pool noodle appears to be just under 4 dollars. That makes 32 noodles. If you look online you see they are 60 inches long and "nearly 3 inches thick," so we'll call that a 1.5 inch radius. That's 1.5^2*pi*60*32 noodles or about 13571 cubic inches. Divide that by 12^3 since that is cubic inches and you get about 8 cubic feet. It probably is a bit more than that since nobody can ever really do ideal packing conditions...but still...your average team is already probably bringing a vehicle large enough to hold the kit bins there is probably enough room for a few spare noodles...and probably most people either will bring the team (meaning they need two cars) or no passengers (leaving them with a lot of extra space). It really actually sounds quite reasonable (assuming of course the pool noodles are the game piece) because pool noodles are out of season right now and so might be hard for some teams to find.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

here is the statement it was talked about here

Hello Teams,

There is a thing-a-ma-jig that every team FRC team is going to need this
year. By placing a bulk order, FIRSTWA was able to purchase this doo-hicky
for about half of what it would have otherwised cost. We went ahead and
ordered one for every team so we could get this bulk price.

At Saturdays kickoff, you will be able to pickup and take home this widget.
To do so, you will need to bring $58 with you. You can bring either cash or
a check made out to FIRSTWA. We will provide you with a receipt for $58 so
you can get reimbursed. We will be unable to accept purchase orders for
this.

If you elect not to purchase what we are offering, it will cost you
approximately $125 to get on your own. Please plan on taking advantage of
our offer on Saturday. That is once again on kickoff Saturday only! We are
sending you advanced notice so you can make arrangements for the $58.

Thanks, see you on Saturday morning.

Kevin

the statement reads that FIRSTWA is getting this item. FIRSTWA is first of washington. seeing as how the only people who have probaly heard of this $125 item it are going to that kickoff it is probably a non competition oriented item such as some sort of software or something else that isn't needed. this was mentioned by me and another person in the thread this orignally started in..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Then why would it say Why not then say "may need this year"?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

good point but why have only the teams at that kickoff heard of it??

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Caring Regional Director? :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I agree. My bet would be that when FIRST sends out their next email blast they will tell teams to bring the $58 to their kickoffs.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Here's the way I interpreted the situation:

People running the remote kickoffs are bound to have the Kits by now - or, at least, a list of what teams are going to need. They know that, in addition to the Kits, teams will have to buy one extra part that is going to cost $125. Whoever is running FIRST WA took the initiative to contact a dealer of said part and buy a bunch in bulk, getting a discount on each part. Rather than having the teams attending that kickoff go out and buy the parts for $125, they are requesting that each team bring $58 to get the part, at a discounted price, (a one time only deal!) at kickoff.

I don't think there will be an email blast saying "bring $58 to kickoff!" I do think that, at each kickoff, we will find out what this extra part is and be responsible for obtaining it on our own.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Oh man.. yet another Montana.

In the movie Scarface (which I have never seen yet mind you), Al Pacino's character is named Tony Montana.

Anyways, going by the IMDB page for that movie, their was a film editor in that movie named Jerry Greenberg. He was also film editor on a movie called "They Might Be Giants".

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind seeing a band like They Might Be Giants at a regional, or The Championship event this year.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

"Say hello to my little friend!"

...does that mean we'll have miniature footballs this year?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Wasn't that a white mountain on his desk in Scarface before the "Say 'ello to my lil' friend!" scene.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Katie's right and I have to eat my words! :ahh:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

"Say hello to my little friend!"

maybe we'll have MiniMe Robots this year =D

but I've never seen Scarface so I don't know what you guys are talking about...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

THAT WOULD BE SOOO AWSOME!!! TMBG r0x0rz!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

ok im gonna go nuts on this clue, and say this:

five 'bots tangling with pasta: i guess it could be foam noodles. (already said)

a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show: Spade is a synonym for a shovel. David Spade was on the show Coneheads in 1993. Therefore, this refers to a cone shaped object, or rather, a cone shaped game piece.

and seeing montana's green heights: a hill of some sort in the middle of the field.
(already said)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I think some other people must be thinking the same thing but:

The 2006 advance field parts list has us buying a lot of plywood, as well as some diamondplate and lexan. I think this pretty much confirms there will be an elevated area or areas, topped with either diamondplate or lexan.

Also, it looks like they are distributing the rest of the game objects in the KOP due to the number of boxes. Rats! No guessing what the game objects could be! :D

Only 1d 03h 48m till kickoff... :rolleyes:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i don't know about the diamond plate...couldn't that just be the same stuff we've had protecting the player stations in the past? or do they not included that in the BOM?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

For all those interested, look here: http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2006...s.htm#Section3 for the list of materials. Obviously, as has been said, this isn't a completed list.

Also, isn't it more like 38 hours till kickoff?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

You've come the closest to what I think is simple-- 2nd grade math (subtraction):
6-1=5
There will be 6 robots in each match, playing King of the Mountain (Montana/height). Only one can be on top, leaving 5 'bots below.

I like the idea of pool noodles. Surely they can't be any more fragile than the Stack Attack containers, and they're cheaper. Plus, no assembly required! But there would be a new rule: no Tug-Of-War with the pool noodles! They'll be a challenge to drive over, though. (Transportation note: they can bend easily to fit inside just about any vehicle or crate.)

Here's another possibility involving pasta of any shape: The human players will have an eating contest! Pasta instead of Krispy Kremes. (My cat ate an entire piece of Alberstons Essensia gnocchi last night, so it must be so. It was kind of rubbery, like a football skin.)

Shovel's show--I prefer the interpretation of the part of the shovel that's showing. This could be a simple stick protruding up from a broader base. Or it could be a shovel handle with the perpendicular grip loop at the top. In any case, it could protrude up from the top of the mountain. Maybe the loop part would be big enough to put something through or in. Maybe that's where the mailbox will be (if you believe that rumor).

They are green in summer--dark green, covered with pines and firs (hey--like the shovel handle??).

With all the negative things Dean Kamen has said about our culture's obsession with sports, I'm not sure I like the idea of FIRST using obscure sports facts in game hints two years in a row. Last year was baseball, then this year football? Hmmm... So I prefer to think of Montana as the state, not the athlete.

About the 2000 mailbox rumor: Do you really believe that an employee is going to risk his job sharing confidential information about customer orders on the Internet? Even if this is the case, a search for 200 Bedford Street turned up:
--Manchester Historic Association (Millyard Museum)
--University of New Hampshire Cooperative Extension
--St. Mary's Bank/The Mortgage Center
--Science Enrichment Encounters
--New Thalian Players (lists 2nd floor of FIRST admin offices as a "venue")
--Holliday Picture Frames Inc. (in PA)
--SEE Science Center
--WEE PLAY SCHOOL INC

I'll leave it to others to guess why any of the above might want 2000 mailboxes.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

that has me thinking.... mabey one has to dig something out of a box on top of something and down onto the field!?!?!?!?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't know...I just copied it from the countdown on the ChiefDelphi banner. :p

If it's off, I'd like to know :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

well the last thing is a playschool mailboxes make good shoe storage.(like in mcdonalds playplace). and ya thats alot of different places that could order them to put ur job on the line.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Why not just install the Firefox Countdown Clock extension? I have it installed, and it's been counting down to the Kickoff on both of my computers for the past month. I also made it so that is plays a Hallelujah sound clip when it gets to 10:00 AM Saturday. ;)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

What part might a human player play in the whole scheme of ideas that we've created here?
I can see the human player briskly walking pool noodles over to the mailbox loading station and dropping them in for the robot to retrieve.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

...we FIRSTers are sad, sad people. :D

--Petey

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

not sad, just....different...yeah DIFFERENT!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i know this may be kinda random; but has anyone thought of the saying "green with envy" ?


since there is no green paint on the field material list, i think we should look at different possiblities for the "montana's green heights" part

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

The Regional Director for Washington is either Jim Beck or Jason Morrella, they also oversee kickoffs at all west coast locations - they wouldn't show preference by helping one location over another - they are very fair. At UC Davis, we received the KOPs yesterday and they've been secured until Saturday 10 am. That is most likely true of many remote kickoff sites. I doubt they have opened up those KOP's in WA to find out the game piece. Looking at the Advance BOM - perhaps they're getting a good deal on the lexan or diamond plate which are hard to find at your local hardware store, or it is something else entirely.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I'm going to agree with whoever suggested that someone in the WA area found a good deal on a field material (the diamond plate is the most likely) and simply wanted to pass it along to the other teams at the kickoff

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

- 2 vs. 2
- The camera's back, and its going to cost you $58.00.
- Small platform, for autonomous.
- stationary and moving scoring bins
- interaction-less autonomous mode.
- new game piece shape (haha, what's next, a tesseract?)

Yep, yep.. autonomous is gonna be an important one this go 'round.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

That green paint is a very specific color, one that is probably sitting in the encrypted game documents right now! :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

1) the camera would come with the kit if they wanted us to use it.
2)small platform for autonomous? its still on the field after autonomous unless it magically vanishes.
3)umm MOVING scoring bins??? where in the field BOM do u see casters or wheels of anykind??
4)interaction-less autonomous?? iv'e been hear a couple years don't remember human players interacting at all during autonomous so thats nothing new! unless of course the robots are interactionless which means no autonomous but that definetly won't happen.
5)new game piece? well ya theres a different game piece every year.

i'm not trying to be rude but your points are either obvious or obviously make no sense what so ever.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

yeah it's definitly not the camera that they got a bulk deal on. It's probably the diamondplate or something similar not parts of the robot.

I like the idea that we will be playing KOTH. that would leave 5 'bots on the ground struggling to get up. and that pasta is some sort of obsticle.

What if the robots had to play King of the Hill in autonomous mode? That would be sweetness....and that would explain the green mountain.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I sense many infuriated programmers trying to get the robot away from mechanical so they can start fighting with the PID loops... :yikes:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

LOL you betchya! Programmer wars!!! w00t!

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

5 'bots? i highly doubt that there will be five..... such an odd number.... i mean, it maybe... or it could be just to throw us off..... if there is five, it may be another part of the field that th robots have to get to or 5 ojects to get that are pasta like..... 5 'bots though, i highly HIGHLY doubt that there will be five... typo? or maybe part of a rule? nothing to do with it? but 5... strange number..... then again 5 is how many letters are in FIRST...... :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Who wants to bet that the Montana football reference eludes to the football uprights in the game Ramp n'Roll. I bet this clue meant that we would have ramps to deal with.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

That's essentially what happened in Stack Attack. I've seen video. It wasn't pretty.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

My spy that I placed outside HQ (in disguise, of course) happened to notice the trucks leave yesterday and arrive at SNHU. More details to (hopefully) come...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hey, who shoveled a bunch of macaroni into my green extra-tall Joe Montana mailbox? :D


You actually SAW that movie? :)

David Spade was also on the TV show "Just Shoot Me". Look out-flying noodles!! OH, THE HUMANITY!!!

I'm not even going to touch "going postal" (mailboxes)

Hope everyone has a ball at kickoff--only a few more hours to catch up on your sleep!!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Putting together a couple of ideas I saw earlier in the thread:
Shovel's show -> Handle
6-1=5

So what if one robot has to be pulling a handle in order to allow the other robots to get a game piece or achieve some goal? That would only be "five 'bots tangling", but could still be a 3 vs. 3 match.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

After reading your post, I went and checked the old 2005 advanced materials pdf file and saw that only the "Sunny Summer" color was included on the advanced list last year. Green, blue, and red were not on that list (probably to throw us off).
I am not counting on robot vision systems (CMU or otherwise ) to be going away, especially based on the list. I just hope that my team will be more successful with vision should it be there for us to utilize this year.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Maybe that big 4' x 8' lexan board it the slippery surface that goes up hill.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Doh'
That post made me remember the 1/4" plywood/luan was used to make vision targets last year. This is likely what its for assuming we get the cameras again. I doubt the wood will be for a curved surface but something like a target works.

Also the lexan could be used to make our scoring object.

One more thing I still think my prediction of a wall completely obscuring the far side of the field from last year is plausible this year given the materials.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I had somthing similar earlier in the thread:

I was also in the football themed crowd with the Montana clue, so it seemed hardly a coincidence. I highly doubt this game will be similar to that one, but I'm still betting a Dew on a green hill (with possible field goal). This also goes pretty well with the truncated pyramid theories earlier, because if you remove the back wall and finish off Ramp N'Roll's hill, it'd be a truncated pyramid (something I literally just thought of now).

My final guesses: I'm going with footballs as a game piece. The 5' robots, using the prime number meaning of the apostrophe, leads to a 3 vs. 3 game (and yeah, I'm pretty sure autonomous is back, though still at the beginning), and that the "pasta" are footballs scattered along the ground. I think passing to teammates will be a part of scoring (if only as an increase in points per ball) because of the shovel clue. And Montana's green heights has me going with the aforementioned truncated pyramid as a hill, and a possibility that there will be field-goal-esque goal.

I also feel that one part of the game has been intentionally been not mentioned in this clue.

Oh, and I still have my Huang He "theory" as a backup. :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Montana Green is a type of Evergreen plant with a pyramidal growth structre... Can grow up to 20'

Mentioned this before...but noone caught on. Adds to the pyramid hype.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

"Montana Green Power is your source for information on renewable energy. Explore solar, wind and biomass, geothermal, and hydropower technologies in Montana."

from: www.montanagreenpower.com

just something to chew on.....the sun is pretty high up....*innocent shrug*

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

has everyone seen the bill of materials, just realeased, with all that lexan i am thinking of a slipery surfaced ramp?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Well, assuming that were the case we'd either be looking for something very large, or several small things as FIRST wants us to get 64 sq. feet of the stuff!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

OK, at what point do we say "x hours won't help me design anything" and just wait for the kickoff??? :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

im positive the wood is for a platform. possibly 2... and the deck screws.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I'm surprised with all this talk about noodles, no one has mentioned the Flying Spaghetti Monster. With all the crazy talk going on about mailboxes and such, why not include the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

The lexan and diamond plate are both optional supplies, as it says in the footnotes. These are used every year for the driver station, but are not necessary. I doubt that they would have us drive the robots over lexan, as we would crack it within 10 minutes.

I do see ramps and/or platforms in our future, however.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

renewable energy! now that would be fun and as far as I've heard new to FIRST.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

another possible nudge...perhaps linking the "renewable energy" perhaps new batteries with a longer life....longer matches? maybe? or not...lol

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Alright now everyone just slow down a bit. I'm hoping this thread count hits my prediction made last week.

Oh, I guess this post doesn't help, huh?

There will be a platform with diamond plate on top. The ramp will be curved up to the top of the platform and covered with the Lexan. I'm imagining a sort of speed bump looking shape in the middle of the field. But there's got to be more. Footballs or fun noodles could be the game object which may just need to be pushed (or shoveled) from one side of the field to the other. I don't forsee any "goals", because they usually include PVC or other similar components in the advanced BOM. Well I'm sure we'll all be proved wrong in 16 hours.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

There will be platforms and most likly ramps also. THey will have us drive on lexan, people run into the drivers station all the time ans I am yet to see one break, if lexan is fastened properly it is extrmely tough to break.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

haha, well no matter what the game has in store... we will find out in just a few short hours.... or well for all of us roboteers out there.... the time could go by REALLY SLOWLY! i just have a feeling this year is gonna be awsome...

I just wanna know why we need all that plywood (supply kit) as someone on my team mentioned... maby we just have really a GIANT HOUSE in the middle of the field... and we have to wreck it down. No, it dosnet fit ANY clues ;) but i'd be fun :)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Here's something interesting:
A spade is an old British gold coin. And gold is easy to get 'obsessed with'. So I had an idea of some sort of slot machine that deposits game pieces or something. "game piece obsessed with a shovel's show" how many things it can be!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

...there's General Relativity, Special Relativity and now....KICKOFF RELATIVITY!

Kickoff Relativity (n.) KĬK-ŏf rĕl-ă TĬV-əty - the pheonomenon that occurs in the days preceding the FRC kickoff, when time slows down and nearly stops the closer it gets to the game release. If you, or anyone you know, is experiencing Kickoff Relatvitity, please refer them to FIRST-a-holics annonymous for treament immediately

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I'm thinking the first line of the hint is just messing with us: if you just move the space "five 'bots" becomes "five' bots" which just means "five-foot bots" simply referring to the robot height limit and not anything about the number of bots on the field.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

and then, the last line of the hint...
You scare me sometimes, other times you make me wonder: what do you know that the rest of us don't. :rolleyes:

Dave, one day before kickoff, and you've given us a great piece of insight.

OK, so may be the shovel's show has to do with some form of renewable enery such as a windmill, but more likely geothermal. Something around the lines of nuclear energy processes perhaps and how a shovel would be used to assist with that. But the pasta part of the hint really evades me in the object aspect of a renewable energy game. Now, pasta doesn't necessarily have to deal with spagetti noodles. Pasta noodles can also include the "screw" shaped noodle. That's pretty much all I'll say there.

Shovel show: scooping for uranium chunks or other energy stuff.

Longer matches: no. No way, no how. I think FIRST has enough on their hands getting all the current teams ran through several matches before dinner time.

New batteries: we can only hope
Real time recharging bases are possible from what your hinting though.

Conclusion: I love the renewable energy idea, I'll be looking for that tomorrow.

$0.02
-Joe :cool:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't want to be the bringer of bad news...but the list of components for the field still leaves all those people holding out for the water game with some hope. Polycarb + Caulk= water tank

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't think the venues are set up to be able to handle a water game...(wooden floored gyms and water don't mix very well) The polycarb is probably either the player station protections or some field surface

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I doubt that FIRST would implement a water tank. Water, which weights about 8lbs/gallon is very heavy. The force being exerted on the sides of a polycarbonate (Lexan) tank would be far too much for a 1/8" think piece of Lexan to bear without tremendous reforcement. The large quantity of 2x4s may lead some creadence to this clue, but if it was for a water tank, they would use thinker polycarbonate material anyway.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Why are people holding on to this water red herring so much?

I would love to know why people think FIRST would even consider accepting that liability. We all know how difficult it is for many teams to even pass a basic safety inspection when it is clearly spelled out in the rules and they don't need to be water proof. This isn't even talking about the cost of waterproof motors and wiring pass throughs necessary in a kit to attempt making it safe.

Pardon the rant but the water thing is so nonsensical I just don't get it.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i completely agree. you must remember, high school kids must be able to build this field, and also, you must think, every year, there are rookie teams, rookie teams can sometimes mean not the greatest robots, which will mean sinking robots, which means, 5K down the drain (No Pun Intended).

This is a fantasy, not a reality.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't think anyone seriously expects it to happen we just like talking about the possibility :D , and to some extent joking about it. We know it's silly but assuming it did happen and if it was ever feasible (which it's not really) it would make a pretty cool game. Anyway the game is in what 11 hours I think ill just wait until im at Richmond to find out. Im not so sure about this whole pool noodle thing by the way. I have a couple lying around and they are pretty hard to manipulate with accuracy.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Don't you remember team 842, who beat MIT in the underwater ROV competition with a PVC robot? They didn't have huge resources, and they made it. Cheapish underwater FIRST bots aren't a complete impossibility.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

While I agree with most of the water points above, I do have to say that it's NOT as hard as it looks. My engineering class built and competed with underwater ROV's last year. We made them out of PVC and standard 12V DC motor (I wanted to water proof some CIM's for it, but the teacher said no) we waterproofed them with vaseline and wax. All seven of them worked and were able to complete the challenge (picking up various shaped cans from the bottom of the swiming pool). In conclusion, I my opinion, it's not the logistics of building and underwater robot that's the problem, but that it's the venue and field setup that would cause problems...plus how do you test on a practice field?