2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

five 'bots tangling with pasta
a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show
and seeing Montana's green heights

Let the Games begin!

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Seeing green...hummm dare I say that the camera will be back this year?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

This isnt the official hint is it?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

"a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show"

A moving game piece?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

My guess is that the pasta is some sort of obsticle that will cause driving issues for the 5 robots that will be on the field.

The game object is obviously something that needs to be shoveled. Sand?

As for the green heights, I think the CMUcam will be making a comeback. I'm not sure what Montana has to do with anything though.

Maybe the game object is something that has to do with Montana. Then it needs to be placed into some sort of high green goals.

Edit: Per google, "show" can also mean getting 3rd place.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

This is indeed the official hint, as originaly posted from the thread here

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Like I posted in the other, fun noodles i wonder if that is the game object, or something of the sorts.

Its much like a log from a shovel log loader, and it can be confused with pasta. Maybe auton mode will be you have to find the green fun noodle and put it into a scoring device.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

"five 'bots tangling with pasta"
Five? such a strange number, it goesnt seem to work out if you want equal alliances. I really have no clue what to make of that. Pasta reminds me of those foam noodles. that kids always take to the pool. Those could be really fun scoring objects, but might induce the same dread and annoyance as the floppies did in 99.

"a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show"
what does a shovel show? You move stuff with it, so if the show the process of liftinf stuff up into a goal or something like that? Could indicate a highly offensive game where a lot of scoring is required.

"and seeing Montana's green heights"

well, green was the unofficial color of the CMU, so this might suggest it's comeback. Montana is a rather large state, this + the word heights seems like it points to there being a large object in the middle of the field, like a huge green goal or whatnot.

To summarize, my thoughts on it are:
1) Foam noodles.
2) Use of the CMU Cam
3) A large green goal/tower the size of montana in the middle of the field.

I'm not quite sure the litereal meaning of "Five 'bots tangling with pasta." It could be scary. Six was quite crowded last year, but it made for even alliances.

Well, only 2 weeks left. I'll definitely be watching the evolution of this thread with interest.
_Alex

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Time for an analysis:
A few possibilities here:

• 5v0 - Hopefully not. 4v0 was irritating for some teams. Adding another team into that would create issues.
• 2v2 - Maybe they're just saying 5 to throw us off (as always)
• 2v3 - Unbalanced teams, yet still plausible. The team of 2 might get extra points to balance out the lack of a 3rd robot.
• 3v3 - Again, they could be trying to throw us off.
• 2v2v1 - Few options here. Two alliances and a lone team fighting to win. The lone team could potentially be a mercenary working for whatever alliance they feel like, or the points gained by the lone bot could be added to both alliances.
• 2.5v2.5 - Perhaps we have 3v3, yet one random robot gets disabled every 20 seconds, and another is "unfrozen"

Hmm...

• Shovel - A lifting mechanism for pickup sticks perhaps?
• Snow/Ice - Lets see... a shovel picks up snow in winter. Maybe we have a sled or even CURLING on snow/ice?

Two words pop out here: seeing and heights. Seeing could be a reference to the reappearance of either the CMUcam or Infared. Heights could mean a multi-leveled game platform or a hill on the field or a raised part of the field.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

I think my guess that 5 "'bots" of pasta has something to do with Dave eating a lot would be quite valid... hehe

[Edit] My final analysis is that it is a pasta eating contest between Dave and 5 robots to see who can eat more

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

If I were Dave, I'd post correct "ideas" here about the game just to throw us off.

But, now that I've posted this, he'll give us wrong hints. That will give us a way to eliminate the wrong ideas.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

... What if there are 5 foam noodles for each team to play with? And I don't think I am going to analyze "bot."

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

It's a shovel's show. Sounds like digging to me, but that seems a bit to obvious...

I'm dreading whatever pasta means.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

I'm not one to care about the hint so much -- I have enough things to worry about, I guess. That said, y'all are amateurs ;)

For your consideration: "Just Shoot Me," and "8 Simple Rules".

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

The Clue Says "A game piece obsessed with a shovel's SHOW" It wouldn't have anything to do with snow or ice, look at where the regionals are.

You can't have snow or ice, at a regional. You realize how fast it would melt? For anyone that has been to a regional they should realize that ice isn't even a feasible idea.

(Not trying to flame, sorry if I came across that way. Just didn't want anyone thinking that they would actually use a snow or ice game field.)

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Maybe its 2v2 where the other "robot" is actually a moving field element like a shovel?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Actually I was thinking it may be a free for all, style game. Or a 1 team idea. So no alliances. That would be sort of awkward though.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

2vs2 with the re-apperance of the placebo?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

The robots arent obsessed the shovels show
It says a game peice

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

has anyone connected previos hints to any of this

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Well, these are my 2 top ideas so far...

1. One of the definitions of "shovel" is "The amount that a shovel can hold; a shovelful: One shovel of dirt" ... so could the game piece have to be filled?

2. "a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show and seeing Montana's green heights" ... the "and" can make the heights relate to the game piece.. so the game piece might have to be up high to score points... kind of like in 1999 with raising the floppies to a certain height

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

I somehow doubt that we'll see a placebo as a full-on FRC robot in its own right, as one of the oft-mentioned constraints is that a team should be able to replicate the field with stuff from Home Depot. And you just can't get an IFI RC at Lowe's.

The fact that a shovel show is being held at the High Wire Gallery (link credit: Not2B) makes me wonder about hanging making a return, but perhaps in the form of having to traverse something while hanging. (Teams like 237 and 330, who perfected the art of the monkeybot in 2004, might have the edge here.)

On the other hand, I think I'm going to just go back to finishing off the Pre-Season FF draft, run a couple more caption contests, and relax before the madness.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Maybie "5 'bots" means exactly what it sounds like which is that there will be 5 robots on the field. This could mean a number of different things:
5v0 - This would be cool
ueven teams - could be interesting
2v2+1 - The 5th team either switches sides or somehow influences the game in a special way. I think this is highly unlikely

Well when pasta is uncooked, it is straight. Remmeber the batons (straight things)? Shovel: thing that picks up logs(straight things)? The game peice will be some sort of log-like thing.

Montana + heights - montana has mountians. I don't think the field will be flat this year

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

i think there will be possibly a third alliance introduced this year as well as a hill or mound.

There was the mention of pasta. As well as green.

Pasta is one of Italy's biggest foods, green is on the Italian flag. The Italian flag it broken up into 3 sections, green, white, and red 2 of which are associated with the colors of first if you look to the first logo.

Italy also has allot of mountains which relates to the green heights



in addition i found this from
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/montana
and significant lumber and mineral extraction (gold, coal, silver, talc, and vermiculite) industries.

Vegetation of the state includes ponderosa pine, lodgepole pine, larch, fir, spruce, aspen, birch, redcedar, ash, alder, rocky mountain maple and cottonwood trees. Forests cover one-fourth of the state. Flowers native to Montana include asters, bitterroots, daisies, lupins, poppies, primroses, columbine, lilies, orchids and dryads. Several species of sagebrush and cactus and many species of grasses are common plants in some regions. Many species of mushrooms and lichens are also found in the state.


i was thinking since we had 2 teams of 3 last year
it would be
3 teams of 2 this year

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Having gone through two hints in my FIRST career, I'm willing to bet that you may be onto something here. The derivative thing seems to be the key. (After all, was Led Zeppelin or John Neun on the field?)

Perhaps we'll have to maneuver our robot to retrieve things from a somewhat awkward situation? (Imagine if you had to get tetras out from the center goal from this year. Scary notion, especially if they were to raise the goal a bit.)

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

i was thinking that

five 'bots tangling with pasta
mebbe 5 robots get to hold batons or get the option to get batons (i really have no idea lol)

a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show
means that u have to stack batons as high as u can

and seeing Montana's green heights
n mebbe after u stacked the batons as high as u can, u need to use ur camera (like last yr for the vision tetra) to reach some goal. dave said last yr at kick off we'll use camera's more, so mebbe this yr the camera obstacle will be a bigger part of the game

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Also the 2006 Winter Olympics is in Italy, so maybe an Olypmic theme

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Pasta does not have to be spaghetti.

I also don't think that the pool noddle foam toys would work because they are long and it would be hard to put them somewhere (as every game has used as the scoring method)
A list of pasta types with pictures can be found here :Hormel Foods

-shovel's show could imply that the piece needs to be lifted off the ground

-seeing...heights could imply that it needs to be put up high to be scored

-considering the lack of punctuation, the pasta might not be the game piece.

-If you move the apostrophe over so that it is on the "five" and not the "bots", then it is simply saying five' or five feet/foot bots - perhaps a reference to the size limit.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

One of Webster's definitions of show is "to point out". I think there will be a devece on the field to "show" the shovel what to pick up. maybee a trafic light type object that chooses a color at random and you have to get that color object at that particular time.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

I think someone might have been on to it in the other post when they mentioned Joe Montana.

the clue mentions "Seeing Montana's Green Heights " well Joe Montana played at Notre Dame and played in a green jersey Number 3. Instead of saying we are seeing an object maybe seeing would be more of an adjective describing Montana and in his green jersey some heights he accomplished. He did win 4 superbowls, was inducted into the hall of fame recently. ( 2000 I believe? )

I havn't found any of his great achievments while he was at notre dame but maybe his actual physical height has something to do with it.

Maybe it means that there will be 3 green targets at some height on the field in which we have to place the pasta.

Still trying to figure out what they are telling us :-) Its a different point of view .. discuss :-)

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Maybe some sort of "king of the hill" type game with (green?) foam noodle where the bot standing in a particular area at the end of the round or on whatever is supposed to represent the "hill" in this situation scores bonus points?

The heights reference might mean that the field won' just be flat, maybe raised, multi-leveled, or maybe with some sort of mound on it? Or maybe you will have to score into a goal that is placed up high, or stack/unstack the noodles.

the 5 bots part is confusing, because you could divide the bots into diff. coalitions, or put them into a number of different situations where the total number of bots is 5. or this part of the clue might have been purposely made to mislead us.

well, that's just my two 2 cents. ;-)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i believe that the " 5 'bots" part has nothing to do with the actual number of robots on the field. a " 'bot" might be a goal of some kind that "tangles" with "pasta." i believe that "pasta" might suggest the use of fun noodles or another pasta-shaped object.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

What about rope? Perhaps some net to go under?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

i don't think they would miss punctuate on something to carefully planed out

we can't forget the Emerald Isle though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland

rocky terrain, the flag is almost identical to Italy's except its orange not red

Ireland has a history of being separated with goes with my idea of multiple teams

according to http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ei.html
Ireland has the natural resources of natural gas, peat, copper, lead, zinc, silver, barite, gypsum, limestone, dolomite

Italy has coal, mercury, zinc, potash, marble, barite, asbestos, pumice, fluorospar, feldspar, pyrite (sulfur), natural gas and crude oil reserves, fish, arable land

about joe montana's stats at notre dame http://www.thedebster.com/ndstats.html

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

ok this may be completely off, but if anyone has heard of the idea of entanglement(the idea in quantum mechanics that to things can be so closely related that by changing a property on one thing you effect the other as well). If we apply this to the hint then perhaps the 'bots' are not the robots, but some sort of field element that releases the 'pasta' game piece.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I've found the key to unlocking the mystery of "shovel's show"! Turns out they're talking about a TV show....

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2....cid=80488&fp=F


What....it wasn't obvious to you guys???? :p

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Looks like Lavery's animation robots are looking more and more realistic every day :) .

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

After a bit of mediation, what goes well with pasta?

Meatballs.

All of a sudden, I'm getting scary visions of us having to retrieve balls from a big area littered with ropes or noodles or something.

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Living in michigan it gets pretty cold outdoor reginal??? I was at the Monster jam and they had a halftime show with snowmobiles and despite being ^of 80 degrees in there the snow was there in entirity the whole time.

I think that Stud Man Dan is on to sumption here, look back at the post about decoding the '05 hint
especially the part about the name of the game and the history of it. The FIRST hint comittee may be leading something historic with this part.

For the montana part i am guessing that there will be something large similer the the center goal last year that will block the view of the other side of the field, i dont know what leads me to think this but i just do.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Bringing Dave's hints in as well:
"five 'bots tangling with pasta" Analysis: There will be five robots at a time. I don't know how, but possibly there are six with one off by itself.They will be tangling up in something-- this could go with the English Channel hint. Although "pasta" suggests spaghetti of some form, it may be sauce, because you almost never see it without sauce.

"a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show" Analysis: First, you have to figure out what a shovel's show is. Personally, I think it might be the shovel's handle, which would put batons into the game. I am most likely wrong on this.

"and seeing Montana's green heights" Analysis: First, seeing, particularly seeing green. I think there will be a return of the cmucam. Montana has mountains, so there will likely be a ramp to go over, possibly green. Green: possibly three alliances with green being the third. Green heights: possibly forested hills, so there may be a "forest" of batons (or something) on said ramp. Worse yet, a game piece that can see.

OK, enough speculating. I'll leave for now before my brain is totally fried. We'll see what they've got for us in two weeks!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

A good description of "shovel logging" is here. In particular, look at the description of the serpentine path the logger takes on very steep slopes (near the bottom).

http://web.cocc.edu/logging/szlinks/shovellog.htm

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

rocky mountains
essentially
cuts off the west coast from the rest
so possibly not being able to play defense
or maybe just one way over to the other side?
potential strategy to block the one way so your opponents cant inter fear

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i dont really want to say this, but could the bots be driven by tethers again?
maybe there will be tall scoring structure(perhaps green), with something that needs to be placed on the top. and then smaller objects would need to be hung on it in the middle.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

if i had to make a guess about the shovel part of the clue i would go back to some of the previous theory's. Every1 was talkin abou the new traction wheels from IFI so it could have something 2 do with a slick surface (when it snow it gets slipery and shovels remove snow) on the field. Deffinently not ice or snow, but some kind of plastic like on the ramp in 03.

but im prolly way off

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

i've got it!! this year's game is going to be just like "Maize Craze" except instead of corn kernels its going to be a bunch of ziti and spaghetti!

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

In that case 4 teams already know how to play on wierd stuff ;)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Definitions for the term "show":

http://www.answers.com/topic/show

Specifically, definition Noun 6c:

"A usually competitive exhibition of domestic animals"

Okay, who's willing to admit they treat their robot as a pet? :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

sorry for the off topic but,

Andy Brockway jokingly said this at our last meeting.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Some one has already mentioned this to me, but did you guys know that Montana Green is a power company? It researches in ecofrendly power sources, ex: wind, solar.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

The purpose of a shovel is to dig a hole, it's show is the hole. Maybe a game piece that has to fit into a certain shape hole, like the game Perfection?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Montana is also an extremely popular brand of spraypaint, particularly amongst graffiti artists. My brother has several nice hues of green...

5 Makes me think that perhaps we'll be going back to two on two matches, with the "placebo" coming back, perhaps this time in a way essential to the game. It could be a target of some sort.

Does anyone have the exact wording of the VCU "snow" hint? I was there, but I can't remember... :confused:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't believe the game pieces will be noodles at-all. Mainly because this isn't an item which any team in the northern states will have an easy time finding due to the fact we don't swim much during the winter. I do however believe there will be something stored which gets dumped like the balls got dumped a few years back from above the human player. Then the item, easiest item to make is baton shaped, gets picked up and stored into a "goal", likely a box?

-Mike

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Maybe an playing field, the the surface is all HDPE

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

that could bring in the hoola-hoop idea, that there would be raised up hoolahoops and they have to drop the baton into hoop. 10x multiplier for having the baton rest on hoola hoop

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Pool noodles can be ordered online at any season. Just as bins were ordered in 2003, and balls in 2004.

Repeat after me: "The Internet is my friend." :rolleyes:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Imagine all noodles in the US and Canada all sold out in minutes. I better buy stock in a noodle company

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Being a die-hard 49ers fan, I want to believe that the hint does refer to Joe Montana and that "Montana's green heights" refers to things which are 3 feet high. To venture a guess: a central structure with 3-foot, 6-foot, and 9-foot levels to be reached either by robots or by game pieces.

I also like the line of thought that "a shovel's show" refers to a TV show. Another show that has a shovel character is Bob the Builder. Perhaps several different shapes of game pieces will be available and robots must use them to build something to score points.

I don't know what to make of the pasta. Pool noodles fall apart too easily to be used as game pieces, I think.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

In that case, you better start now and buy up all of the noodles before the season starts and everyone else rushes to buy them.

In terms of the original clue, I've got a song stuck in my head:
On top of Mount Pasta
All covered with Cheese
I lost my poor meatball
Because somebody's robot went berzerk in autonomous mode

Or something like that...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Alright, I ahve a couple possibly importent things to bring to the table. I was interested by the thought that all pasta is not spaggetti shaped. Very important. However, assuming the pasta is long and thing, this would fit in well with a long PVC baton type object. Pasta is also typically not made fresh in America, aka dried! The PVC would be far, far more durable than a pool toy.

Secondly, the 5 robots tangling is probably not to be taken literally, but consider this for the strategy people: What if the format was 3 vs 3, and 1 robot from either alliance had to voluntarily agree to sacrifice their driving ability (i.e., stay on a pressure pad), in order for either alliance to play. So, for example, for 15 seconds into the gameplay after autonomous, if noone had gotten onto the pressure pad, noone would play till like the last 25 seconds, or not at all. If nothing could be worked out between opposing alliances, the best autonomous would win the day. Man, I hope thats not it though. Bit too evil for my liking...:yikes:

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Does five robots equal bigger field?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

In keeping with the Italy theory, a Sabot is a type of wooden shoe worn in some European countries. Hmm..... Five shoes tangling with pasta?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

If its five total, logically it would call for a smaller field. it was 3v3 this year. 3+3=6. Yay for math!!:D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

A bigger field than when there was 6? Probably not. But that's if the five 'bots refers to robots. :yikes:

Everything in this clue has multiple meanings.

I'm not going to assume that "five 'bots" means five robots.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

well keeping with the historical joe montana perspective you could look at it like this. In 1984 Joe Montana led the NFC in passing for the second time, and won his 2nd superbowl.

In the book 1984 2+2=5 so putting everything together It will be a 2v2 set up.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

But according to last year, more teams were at each reginal allowing first to due 3v3. A 2v2 would only work with less teams at eah regional OR less playing time per team, something I do not think first wants to do.


OR

smaller field and two field per regional

Sorry I ment 5v5 on the last post

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Maybe the 'bots hint might be referring to 5 bots dots placed on the field, it would also help to fit that the bots dots are regularly in groups of 5 or 6 (this case 5)


from google searched define: bots dots
Rubberized circular bumps that are aligned in groups of five or six to represent dashed road lines. Bots Dots replace painted road lines in sub-tropical or tropical climates. They are not used in colder climates as they would be ripped off by the snow plows.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

My guess is 3v3 like last year but there will be some sort of task at the beginning that there will be some sort of race to do first. The first alliance to get this task done gets to disable one of the opposing alliances robots thus making 5 active robots on the field. Autonomous will again be at the beginning thus making it more important to disable an opposing robot.

I vote pasta = pool noodles as scoring objects.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

http://www.tedsmontanagrill.com/

I like that Montana reference a lot better. And guess what? It's owned by Ted Turner, founder of among other things, Turner Entertainment, based out of Atlanta, GA.

That quite possibly has to be more than a coincidence, and if it's not that's just amazing.

Also, dealing with the Montana FIRST connection; of the 10 teams form Montana, none are registered for The Championship event, but 9 out of 10 are definitely sponsored by NASA.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

so what are you saying, elgin, is we are going to be using inflatable BUFFALO!!!!??? WOot

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

No, inflatable clowns!

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Is this serious, I would of thunk that they release Dec 30

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I did some googling on the shovel issues; I thought this was interesting since last year's hint had a musical reference to it.

"Pank Shovel's music is as unique as its members. Their sound is a Punk Rock/Hip-Hop hybrid that crosses boundaries and challenges the genre's traditional misogynistic stereotypes. Their songs strong lyrical content describes real life experiences with childlike imagination."

So could the "Shovel's show" mean Pank Shovel and one his songs?

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Sorry didnt have time to go through all the posts this might be a repeat. The last two lines look like they belong together making this a riddle(obviously).

five 'bots tangling with pasta
a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show and seeing Montana's green heights

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

In reading some info on the state Montana, here was an excerpt:
"...and the dry farming was very successful with the comparatively new and valuable crops of durum, or macaroni wheat, and Russian barley, which is used in straw for winter feed to sheep and neat cattle."

Macaroni = pasta... Maybe instead of corn on the field, it's wheat, or hay, or possible a mess of pvc batons (like said many times). Heh, who wouldn't love to have wheat all gnurled up in their drivetrain.

I don't think they will be pool noodles. Those tear apart very easily, can you imagine robot claws digging into those things?

Also, Montana's green heights. Joe Montana and Trent Green both quarterbacks, yeah? Both had some great successes and "heights".

Montana, as stated has a lot of varied terrains and physical elevations. I definitely think there will be a vertical aspect to this game, but, in what way who knows.

Minerals and Mining have been the lead industry in Montana since the 1800's. Lumber, forests, logging shovels... a game piece obsessed with the shovel's show... maybe...some animal in the forest who doesn't want the logger to tear down the lumber... lol.. I don't know where to go with that yet.

Just a few incoherent thoughts as of now.

And yes Freddy204, this hint came directly from the FIRST personnel.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

That would be great!!! :D

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

hehe I sure hope no hay or wheat.. heh I won't be able to attend competition hehe and many other people like me with alergies and such :-)

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

"five 'bots tangling with pasta"
5v5

"a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show"
Here's something you guys haven't thought about: Cloudesley Shovell

I know the spelling isn't exact, but 'Shovel's Show' might be refering to the incident where Shovell crashed his fleet in home port: "The disaster of the fleet wrecking itself in home waters brought great consternation to the nation. Clearly, something better than dead reckoning was needed to navigate in dangerous waters. This led to the Longitude Act which offered a very large prize for anyone who could find a method of determining longitude accurately at sea. After many years the consequence of the prize was that accurate clocks were produced which became used throughout the world for navigation at sea." - wikipedia.org

I don't think this means that the game will a water game, but it might have something to do with: direction, dead reckoning or maybe even a playing field that has more that one height differention, just a thought...

"and seeing Montana's green heights"
I have a feeling that the Joe Montana hint maybe be going in the right direction, last year's hint had something related to professional sports. Also Montana is home to the Buffaloberry shrub which can reach as tall as 812 feet, just a fact...

Also lets not forget about another hint: "The fox is in the hen house"...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Okay, after letting the hint digest for a few hours free of ChiefDelphi, I've come up with some ideas. But I reserve my right to revise these guestimates if need arises. ;)

But before we get too far into really wild guesses, let's try to keep in mind a few things. We need a set of paramaters to think within before we come to deciphering the official clue.

1. Nothing can extend under the main plane of the playing field. This has to be the case because FIRST is not going to cut holes under the field to account for a subsurface feature. And raising the entire field is not cheap, nor is it probable. The odds are a 95% chance against something penetrating beneath the main plane of the playing field.

2. The main playing field components have to be readily available. Simple as that.

3. The playing field has to be something that does not intentionally cause physical entanglement with robots. How much of a nightmare would it be for field reseters if half of the robots at the end of each match were stuck in coils of rope? I give this a 90% against rope or other physical entanglements.

4. The playing field components have to something that can be easily mocked up by teams of parts from Home Depot.

5. Everything else that has to be considered, including regional logisitics, field reset, etc.


Alright, now to the clue part. :cool:

The "five 'bots" does not actually refer to exactly five robots. There will most likely not be five robots. However, there is a significant chance that there will be six robots. The five can be refering to the fact that only five of the six robots can be doing a task at once.

Other ideas, like a 2x2x1 or a 3x2 match seem very unlikely to happen. Having a team forcefully choose to defect or having one robot randomly disable itself during the match seems unlikely. FIRST always seems to try to "even the playing field" and ensure that each team is "equal before the law"; eg. each team has equal amounts of time to build their robot, as well as compete. And the idea of a "random disablement" must send shivers down the spines of the referees. And they thought too many teams complained now?

The "shovel's show" does not directly refer to scooping up sand, but to the process of what a shovel does. A shovel attempts to gather up raw materials from a large area, and deposit it into a dump truck, train car, barge, etc. or some other container. Therefore, for the game object to be obsessed with the "shovel's show", the game object must be scattered about the field. The duty of the robot is to gather all the objects and deposit them into the "dump trucks", aka goals.

The "green" most definitely refers again to the vision camera. But what about Montana? Montaña is the Spanish word for mountain (which is why the state was named so). A mountain implies that there is an incline, which leads us to think that there is a ramp in the center of the field (a la 2003 style). But looking further into Montana reveals Butte as one of the major cities in that state. If I am not mistaken, a "butte" is a tall mountain with a flat top to it and steep sides.

But here is where we tie the first hint back in. There is most likely going to be 3x3 alliances this year. (There is some probability of 2x2x2, but I seem to doubt FIRST would introduce a third alliance). The "five 'bots" can refer to the fact that only five robots can fit onto the ramp/goal/platform at any one time. Or, this can be refering to the fact that the ramp is not two sided, but many sided. Can the ramp be a pentagon, with opportunities for only five of the fix robots to score at once?

The "tangling with pasta" can be refering not to actual pasta, but to a form of entanglement. If you stretch the definition of entanglement, we can get 'being hung up' in a task, or being 'busy' trying to accomplish something. This implies that the robots will have to venture up the ramp to satify an actual task or goal. This task can be hanging or scoring balls into a goal.

I am leaning toward some sort of balls in this year's game. Especially footballs - as they are still considered a ball, even though they are not a "ball" in traditional form. Plus, footballs are long, almost what one might call "baton-like". ;) (I think that there is some element of truth to the baton hypothesis', but I really find it hard to believe that there will actually be batons as the playing field objects.)

Looking further into Montana gives us the state nickname of "Big Sky Country". This can mean that the main goal is very tall, and we have to "reach for the sky". Can the name of the game involve "Sky High" somehow?

And wait, didn't IFI just release their plans for the production of traction wheels? And I wonder why they chose to make a Vex robot to pick up footballs? Why footballs? Why traction wheels? Does this imply a strond, brute-like game, that battles for control of a center goal? Will this finally be the year of "Grid Iron Frenzy"? After all, this leads back to the Joe Montana hint...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I suggest we all just stop speculating, read Arthur's post and wait for the GDC to completely redesign the game and release another hint becuase they met their match in twisted hint logic.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I agree, Arthur's post does make sense... Just wait two more weeks.

During the year I can't wait for the game hint to be released, but then as soon as it is released and I read it for the first time my head starts to hurt and I regret reading it at all...

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I agree that the last two lines refer to the game piece together. To me, it sounds like the games pieces themselves are obsessed with watching shovels do their work and seeing Montana's high places.

"five 'bots tangling..." I think this could possibly refer to something where only 5 (of 6?) can do a certain thing, while a 6th stays on a pad, or does something else.

On the pasta theory. Pasta changes from hard to soft and squishy when it gets cooked. Maybe a game piece that changes once it is scored?

just my $.02

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

THAT would definitely be interesting, but once it's scored, changing probably won't do a whole lot...maybe it changes after autonomous?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

What does a shovel have to show? A hole.

Will this year's game involve negative obstacles?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

See artdutra04's #1 above. Unlikely, but not entirely out of the question. Maybe some sort of volcanoe shape...though montana's not known for it's volcanoes..

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I don't think tying the phrases together is what you should be doing, look at last years clue:
Each phrase gave a separate clue or two, and were not combined.
Amethyst = game piece shape
Baseball players = Game Name
"See" = Vision camera
Numbers clue = Alliance size

Now, separate the phrases from this years clue:
five 'bots tangling with pasta
This sounds like a game name to me. Possibly reflecting that this years field will be 5-sided? (Hey, everyone says "think outside the box", so why should we always, by default, play in one?) Anybody want to play Quint Sprint?

a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show
I believe this is the logging shovel, and that we will be playing with long rod shaped objects (PVC?).

and seeing Montana's green heights
seeing refers to the use of the cameras. If you don't want FIRST to keep using them, then get proficient at programming them. They still represent a challenge to teams, and that's what this whole program is about -- challenges. (And yes, green will still be the color the robots will be seeking.)

Montana, aside from the previous information is a "lopsided" state. That is, it is flat and prarie in the eastern part of the state, but rises to high mountainous regions in the west. This reference could indicate that the playing field will be higher at one end than the other.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

what was the highest Joe Montana threw? maybe thats a hint as to how high a potential hill may be or hanging again

or i was thinking since the field goal is 10 feet high http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_go...oal_Dimensions
we could be hanging again or the ramp could go up to that height presenting a greater challenge from 7 feet in first frenzy

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Another interesting fact I hit on from this website

"Known to many as "The Comeback Kid," Joe engineered 31 fourth quarter comebacks in his magnificent NFL career. The following is a list of games in which Joe brought the 49ers (26 times) and the Chiefs (5 times) back from fourth quarter deficits to dramatic wins:"

I know there's been talk here about moving the autonomous period, possibly to the end....anyone else think think is valid?


also a side note...one of his more famous games at Notre Dame was agianst Georgia Tech...in Atlanta, GA

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I haven't seen any other mention of this, I would like to tie the official hint in with the old talk about snow.

First the shovel's show, for the next few months everyt one up north will get plenty of chances to see their shovels and shovel snow (not dirt and not digging holes)

Then montana, while I agree that Joe Montana may be a connection I found this

"Statewide, average annual rainfall is near 20 inches, while rainfall in the higher elevations of the Rockies (especially north) exceeds 80 inches, and snowfall is usually heavy."

Mostly the snowfall at high elevations. I must say many things are pointing towards snow (also you could include pasta-> Italy-> winter olympics-> snow)

Before you all say how impractical snow is because of temperatures you should see that there is more than one definition of snow

The white specks on a television screen resulting from weak reception.

v. tr.
Slang. To overwhelm with insincere talk, especially with flattery.

Phrasal Verb:
snow under
To overwhelm: I was snowed under with work.
To defeat by a very large margin.

To cover, shut off, or close off

those are from dictionary.com I eliminated ones I did not see as pertinent, I believe that either bad reception or to shut off/ close off may be the most pertinent


also games object-> snow-> snowball->balls was a chain of thought that occurred to me.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

^ Or maybe it will be snowing pasta! :D


But the whole John Neun and George Burns, fit together with the Pi clue to give the hint about the number of teams per alliance. I feel that the clue is vague enough to have many interpretations varying from very broad to very specific. During the discussion about the clue last year, many people properly hypothesized the tetrahedral theme through the whole last part of the clue.

heh, but I'm probably totally wrong anyway so.... :D

I have mixed feelings about an autonomous mode at the end of the time, it would prove difficult to maneuver your robot into the proper place at the time the autonomous period started. I know my team has had some troubles placing our robot without a remote at the beginning of the match. Imagine teams trying to drive their robot to a specific position with the distraction of 3 other robots :ahh: .

It could be possible that autonomous mode would be something radically different where exact positioning of the robot would not be necessary. How to accomplish this though, I don't really know.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

They are challenging for the wrong reasons. The difficult thing about the CMU cam has been done for you, recognizing color blobs and tracking them. Algorithmically speaking, homing in on an object given one's current orientation to it isn't terribly difficult. The reason you didn't see every other team capping in auto was because they had tons and tons of issues, and there was little point incentive to spend a lot of time, very little of which would have been real computer-science algorithmic thinking, on implementing a system.

I hope we don't see the CMU cam again, but it looks to be inevitable.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Hey everyone

New here, signed up to put in some input on this.

If I'm repeating anything, sorry. Here are some ideas:

"Five 'bots tangling with pasta"

• 2 v 2 with a FIRST bot in the middle, or moving around distracting the other robots. Even teams and implements the "tangling" piece. (Credit to my mother)

• Pasta... I'm gonna have to say i agree with the pool foam toy objects. Either that or long objects that aren't easy to manipulate...

"A game piece obsessed with a shovel's show"

• When I read "shovel's show" i thought of digging... so that made me think of possible dips in the field

• when it says "obsessed with a shovel's show", after thinking of the FIRST bot running around, I figured it might be that our robots (human run) will have shovel attributes, and the FIRST robot is a possible game piece that is "obsessed" with our robots...

"and seeing Montana's green heights"

• This has automatically triggered the thought of the camera coming back for everyone. Both in the "seeing" and the "green".

• "heights" brought the possibility of a ramp. Because they pluralized it, I'm thinking there might be multiple ramps. This plays in with the idea of dips in the field that i mentioned earlier, bumps maybe?

Thats all I've got so far... hope they seem feasible

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I forgot to mention this in my last post but the 2+2=5 accordint to 1984 (one of my favorite books) ties in with joe montana but also with bots

I googled "bots but ommitted robots and robot and came up with alot of gaming sites that refered to both bots and big brothers, (many of these sites with mac ties, we know atleast dave uses a mac)

Big Brother would also be a 1984 reference tying into the 2+2=5 2vs 2 theory

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Thoughts:

1a. 5 'bots = 4 bots, has to. Primarily to to the explanation earlier of Joe Montana's 1984 season => 1984 novel => the infamous problem in that book of 2+2=5. I mean, FIRST wouldn't put 5 robots on the field really, or have 6 robots with 5 on field, 2 swapping half-way through the match; or would they??? :rolleyes:

1b. (added after #3) There could be 5 bots in this fashion: the old 2 vs. 2 format with 1 'house' robot to add to the challenge of the game. Perhaps it will have a shovel as its main tool to 'show.'

2. Tangling with pasta => rope, wire, pool noodles, whatever. FIRST has finally gotten off of using basic 3D figures and gone to a 4th dimension: flex. Congrats FIRST for making that leap. ;) Or will this 'pasta be an obstacle as well???

3. a game obsessed with a shovel's show => definition from www.ask.com says that show in noun form is a display; a manifestation (or indication of its presence, existence; or one of its forms is revealed) It is very tough to get a good clue on what exactly will go on besides the use of a shovel. The show part, whether its uses will be obsessively exploited, or something along that line; OR whether there will be a shovel obstacle.

4. and seeing Montana's green heights => It would be odd if this portion of the clue DID NOT refer to the CMUcam or other optical device. Other than that: Montana => mountain state => elevated field platform (green ramps lead to this multi-level 'mountain' or green lines lead to the top somehow).

So, in short:

*4-5 robots possible. If 5, there might be a house robot.
*Flexible game pieces and/or obstacles tangle up robots in some way which is not known.
*something to do with a shovel
*some area of unknown elevation with green to follow.

Sorry if this is redundant in any way, just had to post on this.

-Joe

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Wow.. just wow.

You all found some reference I would have never been able to find in the 4 hours I have been researching this clue. Where did the time go?
I only have a full page full of notes after all. This mystery of this year's clue and the research behind it is, dare I say, worse than studying for finals.
The reward will not be greater per say in 2 weeks, but definitely a lot more fun.

I have found some you all haven't though, but it is 1:30 am and I need some sleep, and some time to mull things over.

Hopefully someone hits on all the issues in the clue that are meant to be uncovered.

As for me, I'm off to bed, and after some more research, and a few days away from the computer, but definitely not the clue I will be back with so much information, you're head will spin.

Good luck to all in deciphering this clue, and also in the 2006 competition.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Definitions of sabot
n. - Footwear usually with wooden soles 3
n. - A shoe carved from a single block of wood 3
n. - A kind of wooden shoe worn by the peasantry in France, Belgium, Sweden, and some other European countries. 2
n. - A thick, circular disk of wood, to which the cartridge bag and projectile are attached, in fixed ammunition for cannon; also, a piece of soft metal attached to a projectile to take the groove of the rifling.

Could be 4 roBOTS tangling over a saBOT...


Random guess to game points-
-possibly raised, circular center goal or area for bonus points.
-2v2 and one sabot, possibly 2 teams of 3 or 3 of 2. 2+3=5(kinda a loose connection there)
-something will need to be picked up off the ground and moved(yeah, that's pretty much a no brainer)

I've got a bit of a field idea in my head. it would be interesting if it's right.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

What if the fifth 'bot is not a mechanical robot, but more like one of those "chatting aim bots", a computer program that provides information, moderates something, or assists in doing something.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

I found Ravioli Makers when searching for pasta. :rolleyes:

http://www.creativecookware.com/ravioli_makers.htm

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

Ravioli eh...beanbags maybe?

Re: Official FIRST Hint declassification
 

Comeback Kid, thats pretty interesting saying that there has been a lot of talk about a comeback of an old first game. 4v0 game in peticular so i think it will be 5v0

As to the five 'bots tangling with pasta. The pasta i would say would be the batons and tangling cuz, or at least i think, its hard to pick batons up.

Re: 2006 Official Game Hint Discussion
 

People seem to be glossing over the possibility of 1v.1v.1v.1v.1 (Every bot for itself). There are definetly some advantages to this configuaration.

Strange clue.