2006 Game Documents
 

Any idea if the documents are being pre-released this year? It worked well in the past. I hope that they are still not working on them :ahh:

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Here you go
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=484

Enjoy!

PS: technically they arent done working on the documents until the last team update :D

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

thats odd, they usually release encrypted documents early, they are useful when you go to a kickoff site that doesn't have Internet access

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

FIRST probably will put them up some time this week. My guess would be Wednesday or Thursday.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Another workaround for pre-receiving "locked" PDF files of the 2006 game rules might be to have one team member bring a laptop PC with a wireless card to your local kickoff venue and then downloading the documents while at the kickoff event; assuming that your kickoff venue has Wi-Fi access.

That way, you could go to Kinko's on the way from the kickoff back to your school and print-out the rules at a copy center, etc.

But, YES, I do suspect that FIRST will upload "locked" PDF files at least one or two days prior to this saturday's kickoff event. Just don't know exactly when.....


OR.....just stop at Kinko's after the kickoff and immediately download and print the rules at their facility....a few minutes/hours over six weeks of build period won't matter.......ha, ha.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

If I recall correctly, the reason they released the 'locked' files early was to keep the file server from melting into a smoldering pile of goo when 1000+ teams had several people try to get the files all at the same time.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Well if no one else is gonna admit a wrong by the group, I will.

That said, I'm guessing because all of the talk of attempting to crack the PDF's last year (yes, it was here on CD in these forums by a small group of individuals), FIRST said no to making the game portion available this year early.

Just another case of a small group of people ruining it for the masses.

Maybe next year they will release it early, and people won't talk about cracking it, and it won't be an issue.

I won't be holding my breath waiting for that though.

I will happily download the game portion of the manual on Sunday morning before our team's kickoff meeting to avoid mass server slowness.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

While I agree the "cracking" discussions were WAY out of line, I doubt that would influence FIRST. Last year the encrypted documents were not released until "approximately 6:00 pm EST on Thursday,".

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed ... and hoping for a bit earlier this year.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

I wasn't on CD during the 2004 season (scary, isn't it?), but wasn't there talk about cracking the manual then?

Someone will always bring it up, either out of being naive or being dumb. But with three days before Kickoff, three things come to mind:
a) Why bother? Three days, and you can get it without all the effort and guilt.
b) In order to crack the manual before Kickoff, you would need some black-magic, CIA-type computers (assuming one were to use a brute-force method). I'm sure your parents/school/sponsors would love the power bill that comes from running that much crunching power.
c) The DMCA prohibits circumventing "measures that prevent unauthorized access to a copyrighted work" (source, page three at the bottom). Do you really feel like tangling with federal law just to get a short time advantage on a game for an extracurricular activity?

That said, I think FIRST will release the manual tonight or tomorrow. (Too much travel on Friday, I figure.)

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

ok since everyone likes the idea of getting documents early how about. U CAN'T GET THEM BY HACKING. We thought of that 2 years ago and our head programer greg inozempzev( one of the creators of open first) explained that to crack the code would take weeks!!! theres only what 3 days until launch.. if ur teams good enough waiting 3 days won't hurt!

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

No one here is suggesting cracking or hacking here. It was only talked about in the sense of, "It happened last year, it was dumb."

Do HTML-like things work here, and if so what is the syntax? I don't wanna destroy the topic, just a link would be great or a simple "no".

Also, what exactly is the website it will be posted on?

Thanks

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Here is where they should go:
http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/doc_updt.htm

However last year's stuff is still there.

I have to say going to the live kickoff like I did with a laptop the last couple of years was nice so we could read the rules on the way home. That is why they do this, because they didn't want to print up all the material for the teams going to the kick-off like they did up to 03.

THIS JUST IN !!!
 

In past years it has been posted on the FRC Documents and Updates page. I would expect that to remain the same.

I am sure there will be an email blast from FIRST, or you could just check the DOCs page once ina while ...

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

I emailed FIRST about the release and got a reply today that said that they don't have a date yet and to look for a email blast coming soon about the docs.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

In the sense of educational information, I'd actually like to contradict your statement.

The software to decrypt PDF files does exist, though it does take awhile. At the most, it would take 8 days to guarantee a successful crack on one Pentium 4 3.00GHz computer if you attacked the password through brute forcing the encryption algorithm (which is limited to 40-bits because of US export regulations, so its not uncrackable). Software does exist that splits up the workload on this, and you could extend it to several computers, reducing it to a day, or even a mere hour if you had the resources to do it with.

Note: I never have and never will condone doing these actions, as the software that does exist is ONLY to be used for PDF files that YOU CREATED. Breaking into unautorized files is highly illegal, and can land you in serious prison time for doing so. Also, it isn't in the spirit of GP to hack such files, for several reasons, such as: from the amount of time it took the Game Design Committee to design the rules, to the fact that you'd be cheating all the other teams who decide to play by the rules.

Brandon/GDC: If you'd rather this post be deleted, just PM me, and I'll take it down.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

thats a very good point but another thing i said was if the team is good enough the couple extra days shouldn't be much of a deal.most teams have been here a couple years and should be used to the strenuous deadline by now.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Acrobat 5 and higher support 128-bit RC4 encryption, and Acrobat 7 supports 128-bit AES encryption on its passwords, so your theory is flawed. I think on the order of weeks is the correct timeframe.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

This comment was included in the FIRST email blast announcing last years availability of encrypted manuals:
...BUT I suppose you are much smarter than US Government scientists/programmers.

PLEASE utilize the search feature of this site and read some of the prior discussion on this topic, AND THEN PLEASE DO NOT WAIT for Brandon's request to remove your post ...

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

ok i didn't expect all this oput of my comment.. my main point was that its stupid and pointless so stop talking about the idea!!

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

I'm sorry, I happened to be at school, and I didn't have time to check everything. I wasn't completely sure if they used the old 40-bit encryption or the newer 128-bit. Also, your sarcastic tone is quite unnecessary, so please refrain from it next time. Thanks.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

An older version of adobe had a flaw, there were a maximum of 1024 keys to be tried to crack any pdf. Not so now.

Although, if security is an issue, theres always RC5, which, for this purpose is essentially uncrackable (Theres a distributed computing project goin on now, using a 72bit key, that cracks 138,905,230,942 Keys/sec, and its 0.287% to the solution after cracking for ~4 years)

It would really be nice to have them early though, I won't have internet where I'll be watching the kickoff.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

b) Heh, talk about power bills. Experts have said that it is physically impossible to brute force a 128 bit key. With the most efficient, super-conductive, etc. etc. computer, it would take 10 gigawatts (~4 nuclear reactors) of energy, and STILL take over a century.
c) The DMCA is a failed law. I quote
Therefore, it is illegal for me to attempt to find flaws in computer code. If the good guys don't find the flaws and patch them before the bad guys find them and exploit them, bad things happen.

Meh, just thought I would add my two cents. With all this being said, hacking is bad (mmkay?)

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

The same government that has been known to post highly sensitive information regarding top secret missions on internet-connected Windows machines?

Or the same government that security was so lax that a man searching for proofs of UFOs was able to hack in?

Yeah, that government.

(Double posted for the sake of our threaded users)

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Uh don't know when they are going to officially put it up but here's the index for 2006 documents http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2006/

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

Actually, the link for one of the game documents last year was:

http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Dra...ayout_ R5.pdf

So likely, this years would be stored in:

http://www2.usfirst.org/2006comp/Drawings/

And lo and behold, there's an index file waiting to stop us from seeing! :(

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

It would be reasons like this why things don't get released to the public in advance. If theres a file there blocking you from seeing whats in that directory, then let it be. If FIRST wanted everyone to know right now whats in there, they would not have that there and send out an email blast saying find everything here. Kickoff is a mere <60 hours away, lets just wait out and see what they have in store for us.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

ok if u figured they'd stop u from getting there why did u even bother??!!!!
theres only what 56hrs left until launch like whats 2 days more.. if u got the info now u'd have to wait and try to get everyone togethor tomorrow which would probably b hard as ppl are still on christmas vacation well atleast in canada.. i don't really know about every where else.. so u'de get everyone togethor friday most ppl would probably sleep in so u'd get a couple hours and then waste half a day on kickoff to get ur parts.. is it really worth it???
i have an idea how bout we end this very boring topic of how to get the info early!! CUZ IT AIN'T WORTH IT!!!

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

C'mon guys, let's get back on topic.

Re: 2006 Game Documents
 

We already have an answer.

I stated a fact about last year's discussions, and apparently my wish that no one would even think about talking about trying to hack the manual this year went unfulfilled.

Thanks for letting me down folks. :( :(
(And, I know it wasn't everyone who posted since my last post in this thread)

I vote this thread be locked since the original question had it's answer already stated by Ryan.

Thanks for the link to the info Ryan, and that's all I have to say for now.