***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Dont post rumors here, this is what we know of the game....
Wow a Noodle used as a ring to shoot balls into....
AIM HIGH
10 seconds auto, 10 balls in each robots possesion at beginning if they choose. 10 point bonus for highest scorer at auto
1 robot cant cross line in center?
looks very interesting.... beware of flying balls in the stands!!!
25 points if all 3 robots are on ramp at end of game i believe
also one point for ever low ball scored in the enemies side... AMAZING GAME this should be very interesting, it switches between offense and defense,,, wow
Penalties when offense crosses line, human players get a chance to throw balls or shoot or whatnot?
seems fun yet confusing lol
Violations... hmmm offsides, height violations lol what else?!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Wait wait, hight limit the entire game?!?


Im also rather confused why the human players were throwing balls. Can anyone clear this up?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

i'm not sure! at elast it appears heihgt violation when youre on offense, they didnt talk about defense, but i think that it will be for the entire game

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

if you have 1 robot in the endzone when the buzzer rings, you get 5 points, for 2 robots you get 10 points and for 3 robots you get 25.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Yeah, no more than 60inches the entire game..

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Anyways things for sure:
Teams that get most points in auto get extra 10 points
Then the team that scores the most in auto becomes defense for the first period, offense the second and the last is for the ramp?
SHIP DATE: FEB 21st
***Humans can outscore robotics***
a human scoring in center goal is 5 point penalty althought they can score in lower goals
ROBOT CAN NEVER grow more than 60 inches tall, but can expand up to 5x5

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

pretty cool that we get a digital camera, anyways lets win a regional or technical award, so we get published in the robotics book
THE PASSWORD FOR THE MANUAL: um please tell me lol that went too fast!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

S1x240JrTBmsqf95DL06FdsTM33H

Key

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

S1x240JrTBmsqf95DL06FdsTM33H PASSWORD

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

height limit will make it interesting ....no dunking

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Good game.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Something that kind of confused me was, how do they calculate the balls? Do they count the total at the end of the match, and if so, how do they tell whose balls are whose???? I'm so confused!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

It seemed that the balls put in the corner goals were then shot by team members, which would indicate that those balls are scored as the game goes on. Not sure about the center goal though

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

From watching, I saw that the balls that went in the center goal were not touched, but the side goals the human players were taking balls from the hopper and putting them back on the playing field...(from the animation). If thats the case how do you tell whose are whose and are the total amount at the end of the match your points??

1pt side goals, 3pts center goal, ramp point: 1-5pts, 2-10pts, 3-25pts, 60" HEIGHT REQUIREMENT FOR THE ENTIRE MATCH, and centerline penalty.

Does the centerline mean if one robot stays back, and another comes back across, that other robot is now eligible for going on...offense??

Confusing....haha!!!, yeah right....

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

As far as I could tell, you put balls in the goals across the field from you. Human players can load balls to the robot or shoot for the lower goals. The top goal can only be scored by the robot. The bottom goals are worth one point apiece, and the top goal is three. 1 robot back on the platform at the end = 5 points, 2=10 points 3+ = 25 points.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

The event this year looks like a ton of fun, although the fact that robots will be throwing balls around the arena kinda makes it dangerous. That means I might have to bring a shield or something to the Regionals to block flying balls. <.<

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According to the game documents, there is a system in place to count the balls as they go through the scoring area, and putting your hand in it screws it up. Yee-haw strategy here we come!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

well good luck on brainstorming from japan
i wish i could be home with my team to help them but work calls
im off to sleep as its 1:30am
so be safe and work hard only 6 weeks!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Explicit promotion of both offense AND defense! NO HUGE LIFT ARMS! Projectiles!

I think the FIRST GDC hit a homerun with this one (I'd have said they scored a touchdown, but Joe Montana would suddenly run into the room and admonish me for using a football cliche). Great job!

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only question i have is how are they going to calculate the speed of the balls being shot? 6 officials with speed detectors? :ahh:

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I find this rule very interesting

<R04> "Wedge” robots are not allowed. Robots must be designed so that interaction with other robots results in
pushing rather than tipping or lifting. Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed. All parts of a
robot between 0 and 8.5 inches from the ground (the top of the bumper zone – see Rule <R35>) that might
push against another robot must be within 10 degrees of vertical. Devices deployed outside the robot's
footprint should be designed to avoid wedging. If a mechanism or an appendage (a ball harvester, for
example) becomes a wedge that interferes with other robots, penalties, disabling, or disqualification can occur
depending on the severity of the infraction.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Why would they calculate the speed? Is there a maximum speed for shots?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Hey Guys
I was wondering if anyone recorded the webcast. I saw it but I also want to play it back to the rest of the team in 25 minutes - if anyone can send it/post it online that would be great... if not, does anyone know when NASA will have a downloadable video?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

the balls say 7" diameter right?
on poof slinky website the balls they sell are 7.5"..
does someone know the actual correct balls? or are these the ones to buy...
Toys R Us run anybody?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Nvm

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I haven't read the manual yet, but you would think that they would've made it clear at kickoff that there was a speed limit. Correct me if I am wrong.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

4.3.1 <S02> defines muzzle velocity, he was right.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Hey, quick question everybody. Has anybody found anything about point/disqualification penalties if your robot accidentally ends up hitting an opposing robot with one of the balls while it's being fired (like the opposing robot getting in the way at the last second)? Since the balls can be fired at up to 26.8 miles per hour, it seems like it could do some serious damage to an opposing robot if they accidentally get in the way. I can't find anything that talks about this unless the damage was intentional.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Theres a max speed? :ahh:
I searched the manual for the game and i didnt find any max speed.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Yes. If you throw the balls over 26.8 miles per hour your robot could get disqualified from the match.

Or to be more specific...

<S01> If at any time a ROBOT’s operation or design is deemed unsafe by the head referee, it will receive a 10-
point penalty and be disabled for the remainder of the match. If the safety violation is due to the ROBOT
design, the head referee has the option to not allow the ROBOT back onto the field unless the design has
been corrected. An example of unsafe operation is repeatedly throwing balls off the field at audience
members, media personnel, judges, referees, etc. An example of an unsafe design is a shooter mechanism
that has a large mass that is stopped abruptly at the end of travel and is at risk of breaking off the ROBOT
and becoming a projectile.

<S02> Muzzle Velocity - No ROBOT may throw a ball with an exit velocity of greater than 12 m/s (26.8 mph).
As a reference, a ball traveling at this velocity when leaving the ROBOT at an angle of 30º from
horizontal with no spin will travel approximately 35 feet. A robot that violates this rule will be
considered unsafe per <S01>.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

True, but with the limitations of our motors, overdriving a provided motor from the kit at 50mph is about impossible.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

max distance the balls can shoot is 35 feet...
I'm assuming that this is ground to ground distance, or will we need our physics, and is it the distance the ball is in the air hahah
i assume that ground to ground, becasue this cant be too hard to calculate haha

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Wasn't that what the little blue plowbot getting hit was about? Being careful w/ where you put your robot? I think that it's probably up to the drivers to keep the robot safe.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

4.3.1<SO2> No ROBOT my throw a ball with an exit velocity of greater than 12 m/s (28.6 mph). [...] A Robot that violates this rule will be considered unsafe as per <S01>
EDIT:whoops, a little late. Oh well

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Even if its not in the rules, remember GP guys, don't build a bot to attack others, build it to work with the rest as a team, and have fun while youre doing it!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

So does anyone know yet whether it is 1 robot back during offense or deffense period? I'm stil unclear on that.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

does anyone know how the human players are operating this year? do they continue to throw balls onto the field during the scoring periods when the balls are being pushed into the scoring zones?

*confuzzled*

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

That is during the defensive period, therefore he will be on the offensive side and ya...

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

there is just one robot on defense "picked at random" (according to the manual)

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You put your balls into your goal, which is right in front of the opposing human player (they are counted as they enter the goal). Then the opposing human player can do whatever he likes with them, most likely throwing them back on the field to his robot. Please guys, READ THE RULES!!

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Has anyone any idea what the mass of the ball should be? :)

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

All I know is it is 7inch diameter foam ball.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

good question, my suggestiong would be to at least guesstimate at the moment, by seeing the s/h charges when ordering the balls, that i know we're doing today!

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My friend, they are Nerf balls. I don't know if you've ever been hit with a nerf ball at that speed but it doesn't do anything more than leave a red mark that fades quickly.

If your robot falls prey to nerf balls, than you probably shouldn't be at comp.

Exactly. Read the rules--this "official" thread is 4 pages of spam. Please guys--I know 1073 has forbidden any team members to post anything at this time until it has been cleared by a committee to prove it hasn't been answered in the manual already. It would be nice if some of the forum members could exercise that restraint.

Two legitimate questions as yet unanswered by the manual:

A) Can you broadcast a green light that is the same as the tall green light in order to trick CMU cams during the match? Edit answered by <R31> negatively.

B) How will the balls in the corner goals be scored? It seems that the balls in the corner goals are also fodder for the opposing team's human player.

So are balls scored on their passage through the portal of the goal, or upon their final resting place? For instance, if am I, as the red team HP, allowed to remove a ball from the blue corner goal (which is on my side)?

It seems that you're able to, or else the HP would be denied ammunition. But doesn't this imply that emasculating your opponent's corner goal is as easy as emptying it at the end of the match in a flurry of Nerf? But I don't see anything about scoring-as-you-go, and FIRST has always been "tally at the end of the match"....rule <G39> is exquisitely ambiguous on this standpoint.

iCurtis, for the life of me I can't find any documentation to support your contention that balls are counted in progress. Please cite me a rule and prove it's not just a common sense deduction...

Insummary:Whence do human players derive their scoring objects, and does that derivation deprive their opponents of scored objects?

Breaking news from kickoff: our kickoff kids just got back and pointed out that there are cameras above each corner goal that apparently count as the balls are scored--so that seems to answer this question. Until I have verification from FIRST though...I'll wait and ask this in the official questions page.


When will the video of kickoff be up...

--Petey

p.s. I won't edit it like I originally did, but here's a strategy hint 1073 rookie Sean Sabo figured out. Take a good look at <G24> and think of a strange answer Dean gave during the game show that everyone laughed at, but perhaps shouldn't have.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

this appears that the scoring will not be a tally at the end, becasue the balls are removed after scored by human players and restocked on the field, correct?
anyways, yes, read the rules, and it is apparent that they didnt cover some important things such as the things you mentioned. Read the rules, ask later, thats what i'm doing so i'll be able to be more knowledgeable by the end of today :)

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Auuuuhhhg.. why couldn't i of graduated this year.. this game pwns tripple play :(

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

:confused:
Robots must use one of the two colored bicycle flags provided at the event queuing location to display
their alliance color (red or blue). Each robot must include a 12 inch long, 1/2” ID PVC tube, capped at the
bottom, permanently mounted on the robot such that when a 3 foot long, 1/4 inch diameter flagpole is inserted
the top of the flagpole is no higher than 6 feet from the ground and the top of the flagpole is at least 12 inches
higher than any other point on the robot (+/- 1/2 inch). The flagpole must be mounted such that it starts the
match, and remains, approximately vertical. The flagpole receptacle must be statically mounted, and not
articulated or actuated.

This rule confuses me, doe it mean that the robot can only be 5 feet high (not including the flag)?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Yes.

<R08> Once a match begins, robots may extend horizontally beyond the 28-inch x 38-inch starting size under their own power, up to a limit of 60 inches in either horizontal cardinal dimension. The robot may not exceed the 60-inch height restriction at any time during the match. In other words, after the start of the match the robot may expand up to a maximum volume of 60 inches by 60 inches by 60 inches. The one exception to the height restriction is provided in Rule <R13>. Any restraints (elastic bands, springs, etc.) that are used to maintain starting size must remain attached to the robot for the duration of the match.

<R13> Robots must use one of the two colored bicycle flags provided at the event queuing location to display their alliance color (red or blue). Each robot must include a 12 inch long, 1/2” ID PVC tube, capped at the
bottom, permanently mounted on the robot such that when a 3 foot long, 1/4 inch diameter flagpole is inserted the top of the flagpole is no higher than 6 feet from the ground and the top of the flagpole is at least 12 inches higher than any other point on the robot (+/- 1/2 inch). The flagpole must be mounted such that it starts the match, and remains, approximately vertical. The flagpole receptacle must be statically mounted, and not articulated or actuated.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Great Game :)

I like how the vertical element that we've had to deal with for two years is no longer there. Definetly think this will be more fun than triple play.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

as we understand it it must be progressive scoring throughout the game.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

i dont see any other way besides progresssive scoring, and as for the flags, I would assume its to not interfere with the readouts, since the sensors are looking for lights this year....

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Upon reading the rules (although it is slightly hidden) balls are counted as they go through the corner slot. Therefore, it doesn't matter where the balls end up. As long as they go through the slot they are scored, then when put back on the field by your opponents HP, they can score again.

Yes Petey, I was going on the circumstantial evidence throughout the manual. Another instance however is rule

which seems very pointed to me.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

If you'll notice, in my post, iCurtis, I said I'd read and hadn't been able to find it, although I did update to say we had kickoff evidence of progressive scoring.

Could you provide a game clause please? <GXX> and whatnot.

Thanks

Ooooh this is interesting:

This hints towards progressive scoring although it is not explicit. Is this what you were referring to iCurtis?

Notes randomly edited in during a team meeting. If they're not answered in here, than we'll post them in the Q/A

• our team is unclear: do the points you score at the beginning of autonomous mode count after autonomous mode is over, or is it merely used to determine order of turns, like a pre-game roll of the die? Rules seem to be silent (reading <G01> is unclear), and the animation doesn't explain it...is it a bonus on top of the scoring or the extent of the scoring?
• since they make the distinction between "all goals" and "opposite goals" in <G01> and the others, are we to assume that if we score on our goal (which is to say the center goal directly above our own drivers) it still counts for our team?
• May a defensive bot sit beneath the goal and fire directly up balls with the intent of deflecting incoming shots? For that matter, may a human player throw balls at incoming shots provided they do not leave the field? Neither would seem to infringe upon <G39> considering it does not interfere with ball counting any more than any other defensive method.
  
  <G38> reads:
  
  Quote:

  <G38> Entering balls onto the field - Only the HUMAN PLAYERs may enter a ball onto the field, either by attempting to throw it to a ROBOT, attempting to throw it in a corner goal, or throwing it onto the field for pickup by a ROBOT. Balls must be thrown over the top of the Alliance Station Wall, and may not be thrown around the side of the Alliance Station Wall. Violations of this rule will result in a 5-point penalty per ball entered onto the field.

  This seems like it rules that out...but I'm not sure...
  
• If a robot is on the platform and a human player throws a ball the length of the field that bounces off the robot and scores in the correct (i.e. opposite) goal...does it count?

Overall, though, this is a remarkably good first draft of the manual...

--Petey

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Anyone get a chance to see how reliable the scoring cameras were? How fast could you shoot balls through and still have them all counted as individual scores?

The confidence level people have in the automatic scoring system (which I think is great - automated real time scoring!) will be critical to avoiding complaints and "we were hosed!" arguments during the competition season.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

hey im kinda a rookie this year so i was just wondering are all games every year this weird?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

ok. i know the balls are progresivly scored, but how r they counted, via sensor or human ( referee) clicker counter

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Assuming they are (there is no rule documentation), it seems that there is a camera that documents the entrance of the balls suspended above the goals. Kickoff attendees reported this.

Yes.

--Petey

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

does the height limit include the ball?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

OK, so apparently people think I'm a moron, because I got a few negative reps for apparently "being stupid". I clearly said I hadn't read the manual, and the point I was trying to make, was if safety is such a huge deal this year, they should've CLEARLY stated a ball's max velocity during the kickoff festivities. Wilshire did not state a direct rule from the manual (Xxx), so how was I supposed to know if this was a valid number? Now I know I'm no speed reader, and for all of those people ( who shall remain namelss ), who have allready read the rules, and memorized them, pardon me. Sorry for trying to ask a real question.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amos229
ok. i know the balls are progresivly scored, but how r they counted, via sensor or human ( referee) clicker counter


Originally posted by Petey
Assuming they are (there is no rule documentation), it seems that there is a camera that documents the entrance of the balls suspended above the goals. Kickoff attendees reported this.


my question is is if it is a camera or some type of laser, what happens when you push more than one ball in at a time?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I agree it should have been stated. I mean, in 2004 when safety/velocity was a factor, it was part of the clue, and very clearly explained in the kickoff.

But, what are ya gonna do?? Throw bad rep at someone who says "they should have done this" or "they should of done that" in the concern for safety?

I don't think that's very GP.

Have some positive rep Greg, on me. (Your only freebie. :rolleyes: )

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

At this point of this thread, I think I need to point out few threads people should read before posting...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=41233

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=38973

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23802

With that being said, I think the game is very intersting and fun. I am still going through the manual and trying to memorize all the rules. Then off to design a robot. Good luck to all teams.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Hey guys, re-touching on the muzzle velocity subject...
A ball shot verticly at 12 m/s will reach its maximum height of 7.35 m (from source height) in 1.22 seconds.

-Henry

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Can the balls scored in either of the upper goals be removed by human players, and put back into the field? Or are they scored and out of the game for good?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

What I said about Triple play last year...
... maybe minus the modularity part, applies to my reaction to this year's game with an addition:

What were they (Dave Lavery and the rest of the R&D group) thinking?

Nicely done nonetheless.

$0.02
-Joe

P.S. Source of quote is here.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

What exsactly is a bicycle flag?

Im currently reading the manual so maybe i havent gotten to it yet, but the HP can only score in the corner goals not the center or the upper right?

[edit] is there even a center goal or is that the upper middle one? someone on my team said you could score where the botts started off

I have a feeling this game is going to kick bott.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

There is a chute that is clearly pictured in the manual, and visible in the animation that shows these balls going to the Human Player in the center.

On a related note, Brandon can we get a thing for this forum/thread for the next few days that says something to the effect of "Be sure that before you post a question regarding this years game that you have read the manual thoroughly." or something to that affect?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Did anyone notice the 4 errr ramps? in the animation, I cant find them in the manual...what are they for?

(i've actually read the manual now and its like err confusing)

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

They're marked as exit chutes and deliver balls from the upper goals to a receptacle below the center goal for use by the HP.

No idea. It looks like we have LED's AND flags this year, according to <R13> and <R14>, but that seems extravagant...no other way to read it though...unless "diagnostic" is more comprehensive than it seems...


--Petey

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I uploaded a picture of the center goal setup. The center goal is the high round goal.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pi...le&picid=12270

The 4 ramps you are refering to are for the side (lower) goals. In The Arena rules, they are refered to as the "Corner Goals". They are an opening of 44"x10" with the bottom of it ~6.5" from the ground. The ramps leading upto it are 24" long.

Wetzel

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

We maybe talking about the same thing
I dont think we are...

Here's a screen shot, i resized it some so I hope it isnt distorted

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Those are there every year, they're just for loading and unloadings robots onto the field.

And now for my return to FIRST after a 7 month hiatus. this is definitely going to be fun, wish I was still a student.

EDIT: I'm not sure if the whole thing about automated scoring got sorted out. From what I found in Rule <G39> it states:

If this counting system is able to be interfered with, it makes sense that this is not a human, who would not mistake a robot, human player, coach, or driver for a ball. Therefore, this system must be an automatic counter, perhaps an infrared beam like the one apparently included in the kits.

There was also a similar rule for robots not interfering with the counter, but I can't find that rule at the moment. But I'm sure it's there.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

As far as the scoring system:

Corner goals: the ramp brings the balls over a light bar (like the ones in your chool cieling), which allows a camera-like sensor above to count them. Since the hole in the wall is only tall enough for one ball, it can easily count any number of balls left to right.

Center goal: the sensors are on either side of the sloped ramp, aimed across to the other sensors (so, aiming parallel to the front side of the goal). The goal's internal ramp is only deep enough for one ball really, so the sensors dont have a problem there either, since they pass down the chute one at a time.

What I've heard as far as reliability "not 100%, but pretty darn reliable"

As far as human interference:
The ball corrals on the corner goals are very long (as far as from the wall outwards) so an HP would have to intentionally try to interefere with the system by leaning way out over the "corral" and extending his arm all the way, so it would be rather obvious if this happened.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

awesome game !!! :)

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

The rules state that each allaince begins with forty balls.
However, is thier a rule that determmines how many of these balls can begin inside the robots, or an any one robot?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Please read the manual and post with unenumerated ambiguities, not things that are explicated in the manual. :D

--Petey

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

ok...i have a question....in the animation it says that during auto. the alliance that scores the highest gets the 10 points and their goal goes off and on defense...so y does it say that the red alliance won the auto..when the blue scored 4 in the top goal equaling 12 points, where as the red only scored 10 in a lower goal....is that a mistake :ahh: or is it the alliance that has put the most balls in any goal???

sry if this is a repeated question.... but io havent had the time to read this..to busy working on ideas..lol...

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Does this rule mean that we have to basically make box bots and not allowed to have an angled front or back end of our robot, such as /---\ :ahh:. I am personally not a fan with this rule.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I sure am a fan. I know with my team, the wedge was becoming an arms race. At the BAE regional last year, we got tipped several times. This year we were going to build wedges to protect ourselve from getting tipped all the time in the qualifications when defense it at it's premium becuase team's are generally still working on their scoring mechanism. Basically, the wedge was becoming an arms race, becuase even if you didn't like them, you had to have them to keep other bots from accidently getting under you. Plus 10 degrees is still asthetically pleasing.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Read <G13>. Each robot may contain upto 10 balls.

Joshua

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I have a question about the corner goals.

Im slightly confused, because by the specs for the field, the corner goals are supposed to have a height of 10", but at the IIT remote kickoff, there was hardly any clearance for the balls to go through. Does anyone know how much clearance the balls are supposed to have when they roll through, because as it looked to me, the human players would have a nearly impossible job to try to throw a ball at that, and get it to come to a gentle enough roll to go through.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

After talking to Woodie Flowers in person today at the Kickoff, I can confirm that the balls are counted in real time. ;) I believe <G05> implies this. The way this is worded, it says that balls from the field can only be scored once, until a human player reintroduces them into play. This would mean that once they are on the field again, they can be scored again, and then thrown back onto the field, and then back again... Just like a basketball arcade game. The only way they could track the score is by real-time scoring.

<G05> In order for a ball to score, it must enter the goal and exit via the exit chute. A ball that bounces out of the goal is not scored. Once a ball is scored for a particular ALLIANCE, it cannot score again until it is entered onto the field by the opposing ALLIANCE's HUMAN PLAYER.

The balls in the center goal are counted right as they enter the chute that drops down into a metal trash can. (A.k.a. the ball holder for the center alliance station.) You can see the ball-counter in the picture below. For the corner goals, the balls are counted right after they go through the opening and cross the white light.



If people were wondering what various aspects of the official playing field look like, I uploaded a bunch of them to my team's website at the following address. There are pictures of the center goal from all angles, the corner goals, the ramp, the openings in the ramps, the ball chutes, etc.

http://www.team228.org/index/picture.../kickoff-2.htm

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

[quote=Greg Perkins]From watching, I saw that the balls that went in the center goal were not touched, but the side goals the human players were taking balls from the hopper and putting them back on the playing field...(from the animation). If thats the case how do you tell whose are whose and are the total amount at the end of the match your points??
QUOTE]

What I saw wandering around the field after the kickoff in Manchester was that the scoring in this game looks automated. There are cameras in the lower ball chutes and another sensor in the high basket. There are no Red or Blue balls - scoring is based on which side of the field a ball enters a goal on.

Balls shot into the high basket will be dropped down into a bin (a metal garbage can in Manchester) via a tube and Human players can take them out of there like any other hopper.

Joshua

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Is FIRST planning to put netting around the field to keep errant shots nearby for quick retrieval and out of the stands?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

As of now, it wouldn't seem so, but they may change that based on what they experience at the first regionals. Personally, I think it would help, but may change the atmospere to have nets between the stands and the field, it will seem more like a sporting event than they really want it to. They may just have a bunch of people around the area trying to shag balls as they leave the field. I can't say for sure, but it wouldn't seem reasonable to just let the balls fly everywhere.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

According to <G02> it's the highest scoring alliance. Apparently, this is either a mistake in the animation or there were some balls scored by the red alliance that we didn't see in the animation.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Yeah but then I could see the possibility of outside fan interference when they toss the ball back into play.
There's a potential for it anyways.
I don't see the problem with the nets. Hockey fans still enjoy hockey with the nets at the ends and appreciate the protection from having that puck not hit them upside the head.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I'm still wondering about that ball issue.

Does this mean that each team will already have 40 balls at thier disposal ALONG WITH up to 10 balls in each robot? Or does it mean 40 balls and you can stick balls in the robots but then that gets subtracted from your total?

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

The game is gonna be crazy this year, its basically telling you to use the sensor cam or you will be shooting randomly..

the thing i didnt uderstand is that if you score int he 1 pt goal..the HP from the other side can throw it out...how are they gonna count them if they get descored so fast>?

::EDIT:: sry, just looked it up, the opponenets HP can only touch balls on offense, and you score while they play defense

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Your alliance as a whole gets 40. Each robot can hold up to 10. Any balls the robots don't have onboard get distributed at the player stations.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I have a specific question. It states in this rule:

<G13> Balls Contained in ROBOTs at the Start of a match - Each ALLIANCE will start a match with 40 balls.
Each ROBOT may contain up to 10 balls at the start of a match. Any balls not contained within the robot
will be evenly distributed between the alliance ball corrals. All of the balls must be contained within the
ROBOT’s 28” x 38” x 60” starting volume and must be clearly visible from outside the ROBOT. The
Head Referee will require that balls outside of the starting volume be removed. It is the responsibility of
the head referee to verify that this rule is satisfied prior to the start of the match.

So do they have to be totally visible, from all angles, which sounds a bit unreasonable, or should the referee just be able to see each ball from some point outside of the robot, and if that is so, what happens if because a bunch of balls are stacked together, a ball is hidden by other balls, and is thus not visible to the referee? Is there a penalty for that, I can't find a penalty for failing to comply with this rule, so what exactly would they do in that situation.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I don't think that it will be penalized when 10 balls are piled in...you obviously can't see through the balls...or it could be one of these "up to the discretion of the referee" deals...in which case they should have a set guideline to go by so there isn't the confusion like there was last year.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

That is a good question, I would bring it up with Q&A and wait for their response. I would assume that they just want to make sure that before the 10 balls are loaded, the robot does not already contain extra balls for cheating purposes. So as long as the refs can easily see nothing is in the robot before and after matches, you should not have a problem. This is only an assumption, I would still contact Q&A about this.

GO 1403 and GOOD LUCK TO ALL 2006 FRC TEAMS!!!

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Just design for the rule. If the ref cant see them, like you said its up to their discretion, but i wouldnt take the chance.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

3.4.3 Ball CorralsA Ball Corral is located at the ends of the Alliance Station Wall to restrain any balls that enter through the Corner Goals. The Ball Corral covers a four-by-four foot area. The side walls of the Ball Corral are three feet tall and constructed of square aluminum tube and polycarbonate. The back wall of the Ball Corral is of similar construction, except it is only 20 inches tall to permit easy retrieval of balls from the interior of the corral.

<G39>Scoring Inerference - HUMAN PLAYERs, DRIVERs, or COACHes may not reach into a ball chute or in any way interfere with the ball counting system. Violations of this rule will result in DQ.

I'm I misinterpreting, or do these statements contradict each other? :confused:

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I think there are designated makrs on the ball chorals which would be "roped off". Just dont reach into there which would interefere play. But you need to pick the balls out.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

I am believing that the velocity speed limit (12 m/s or 28.6 mph) would be the fastest the ball could travel through the center goal to actually be counted as a score by the automatic counting mechanism for their alliance.

-matt

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Actually, im guessing this is a true safety issue. Somewhere else in the rules it discusses that the speed limit ends up equaling a 30deg shot that goes 35'. Any farther than that and you risk shooting it into the audience.

Also keep in mind a ball is NOT Scored when it first enters the goal, its only after it goes down the chute.

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

No.
The ball chute is the drop for the center goal and the ball corral is for the two corner goals. You may not interfere with the ball counting system for either.

This is incorrect. Per <S02>, the velocity at which the ball exits the muzzle(your robot) may not excede 12 m/s. This is considered in violation of <S01>, 10 point penatly and disabled for the remainder of the match.

Does anyone know if a human player picking up a ball from the corral happens to drop it across the counting system, will the other team get a point?

Wetzel

Re: ***THE GAME OFFICIAL: AIM HIGH***
 

Let's put it this way - do you think the refs or the scoring system will be able to tell the difference between you dropping one over the ball counter or it being scoring by the opponent? Probably not. Since the scoring is automatic and immediate and sensor driven, I'm about 99.9% sure they are not going to take those points off because you have butterfingers (not you personally :) ).

However, realize there are times of the game where that scoring side will not be "active" so nothing can be scored on that side. So just drop it then and you won't have problems. :)

Also, regarding netting around the field - I was told it's been discussed and probably will be discussed more. Hopefully we get a decision on it prior to week 1.