Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Hello,

I just have one question, can our team use a wireless 2.4 ghz video camera on our robot as a visual link between the driver and the robot, the video would then also be used for our end of season video, I have been searching all night and cannot find any rules against the use of this kind of camera, nor can I find anything in the support of it.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

I don't have any manual to cite, but historically the rule has been as follows:

1) The feed must go to the video board. No feeds to the driver's stations.
2) The camera must be cleared by FIRST Engineering.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

If you are using it to provide feedback to the driver, I think that's illegal--can't remember where. Probably in Section 8 or Section 5 where it talks about controls. If you are just recording video, it's an NFD (I think). Q&A could tell you what the official answer is.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

<R103> Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the robot, such as remote cameras, must be cleared with FIRST Engineering prior to use. Teams may not use 900 MHz camera systems.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Theres more than one issue here I think

<R59> Custom Circuits may not:
• Interfere with the operation of other robots
• Directly alter the power pathways between the battery, fuse blocks, speed controller/relay, and motor.
Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to
the robot’s electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be
inconsequential.
• Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying
a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to a relay module
• Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance
station
• Connect to the radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

OK I have a history with this question and I think I have that answer. Yes a wireless camera can be used on your robot, provided it does not transmit on the 900 MHz band (many transmit on the 2.4 GHz range), to transmit anywhere but the player station. As soon as it transmits to the player station it's a sensor and not a decoration thus following the custom circuit rule of not being allowed to transmit to the player station. It's kind of a funny loop of two rules. I plan to use one but I'll be picking up the feed on my PC in the pits for website content. FIRST has been asked about this and their response in previous years has been what I said above, feel free to ask but I don't see any indication from the rules that they have changed their minds. If you still want a camera go to www.supercircuits.com They are literally the best place on the web, even Discovery channel interviewed them when they wanted info about spy cameras.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Hi mechanicalbrain,
thanks ever so much for that link to supercircuits.com for their 2.4GHz "spy" camera to mount onto the robot. I want to get one instead of clamping my vidfeo camera to our 'bot during build season......

Having an on-board camera could be a great training aid as well as a fun view to use for our highlights video.

However, as someone else pointed out, cameras DURING actual FIRST events need to be pre-approved.
<R103> Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the robot, such as remote cameras, must be cleared with FIRST Engineering prior to use. Teams may not use 900 MHz camera systems.

Personally, I would like to see this clarified to NOT allow any sort of camera at all DURING any official match, even if it's being transmitted to a DVR in the stands for training. Use during the build season is fine, just not during matches. As an example, what if a driver was to wear "stealth" video sunglasses that DID capture & show the video that was "meant" to go to the stands....Or what if someone in the stands was watching the on-board video and then yelling instructions to the drivers.....

Not fair nor in the spirit of FIRST......My opinion alone.......

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Well I would be shocked to no end to see any team so grossly violate the rules but if a team is going to go such extremes to cheat nothing would stop them from hiding a camera their robot rule or no rule. Camera's have been used before, mostly for TV stations. If a team did violate the rules as you mentioned it would be quite obvious (even the best glasses Ive seen are obvious). The point is if a team is willing to go to such lengths to cheat then why would putting down rules like that stop them? Again I have trouble imagining another team doing something like that. Anything is a possibility and I seem to remember hearing things but mostly that was teams being confused about the rules.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

mechanicalbrain,
I agree with you, that the use of on-board cameras during a few matches would be great for the audience, for TV stations, etc.

In that case, the camera should be supplied by the TV station or by FIRST and could be "strapped-on" to a random number of robots just before their match; assuming a team gives permission to be the token "camera-bot".

Or...better yet, maybe like NASCAR in-car cameras, somebody will actually PAY MY TEAM to carry their camera, and I could fund the whole venture....

Kodak is in my home town, bring on a sponsorship! Love the idea.

No...I don't think that a team really would "grossly violate" the rule, but the rule in place is pretty simple to NOT open-up Pandora's box of "what-ifs"...

I believe....I believe.....I believe......in Gracious Professionalism

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

I think it'd be great to have a camera recording that for future reference. Those kinds of videos would be tons of fun for websites and various awards meetings afterwards.

How much fun would that be?

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Yes, that video is very cool and that is why the robot rules allow teams to use wireless cameras under certain conditions and those requests need to be cleared before competition. I seem to remember a team that actually provided the video to the arena as another camera position.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Before the Greater Toronto Regional last year our team asked permission to use a wireless camera on our 'bot just for entertainment purposes (ie. to be shown as a different camera angle on the "big screen" during matches) and were permitted to for a certain number of matches. It was of no benifit to our drive team (turning around to look at the screen wasn't exactly practical during a match) but it did make the view for the audience much more exciting. In a game like this years' where more is played at ground level I think it would be even more exciting.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

At the Las Vegas Regional, Team 1425 and Team 8 both had recording cameras mounted on their robots during some of the matches on Saturday.

There was some controversy on Friday about the permissibility of the cameras on the robot since the lead inspector, who had approved our camera on Thursday was not available. Saturday morning, we were given permission to use the cameras.

In this case, neither of the cameras were capable of broadcasting. The cameras recorded to on-board media and the video could only
be viewed after the match. Team 1425's camera was an action cam made for this sort of thing by Oregon Scientific. I'll try to find a way to post some of the video.

The game officials did say that they would be discussing the issues raised by our requests and their decisions with FIRST and that hopefully things would be clearer for the events in Atlanta.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

Wow,
this is an old thread re-surfaced!

1) You can do almost anything you want to do during off-field practice runs and even during Thursday practice days.

2) You can duct-tape a mini camcorder to your robot to get 'shooter-eye' view video for use later on (for strategy or just for fun as highlights video). My team did this with my Sony mini-DV camcorder and the robot almost face-planted onto the camera before tipping back upright! Yikes. It was hilarious. We had another camcorder running, so I'll do the split-screen video for the highlights footage.

3) If you try-out some sort of wireless "spy-cam" be aware of the following.
a) It surely CAN'T be used to provide any feedback to the drivers
b) The receiver also can't be in the stands where you shout to the driver "turn left" .....or something like that.
c) Any onboard camera will be susceptable to machine vibrations as well as on-board interference from motors, etc. I was told that the nanny-cams that run at 2.4GHz are problematic at best.
d) The FIRST control system operates on 900MHz spectrum I believe and there are also a lot of stuff that will create havoc with the 2.4GHz spectrum. Some of the newer pinhole spy cameras operate at the 1.2GHz spectrum

4) THEREFORE.....at the 2006 nationals, our team may play with an on-board 1.2GHz camera during practice rounds just for fun.

But, absolutely NO CAMERAS should be on-board during actual matches for ANY reason. It just opens up too many "what if" possibilities.

Re: Can Wireless Video Cameras Be Used?
 

By the way, what would be even better than "on-board" cameras for the 2006 Aim High, would be two small cameras mounted above the high goals pointed downwards like basketball games. Even hockey games now have "wired-up" the goalies from their perspective.....

I did get to witness the on-board camera used in Toronto during 2005 regional, but still think that it should NOT have been permitted at all during an actual match......

Having two "fixed" camera angles plus the two high-goal camera angles will give the video producers plenty to do to get the point of th egame across to the audience.