Chief Delphi - can the game flag be used?

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- - can the game flag be used? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41875)

Re: can the game flag be used?

I highly doubt the flag pole will be capable of blocking a shot. Bicycle flags are quite weak and flexible, and I doubt that they will be able to severly alter a shot. And if they could, Id be more worried about my own flag blocking my shot than someone elses (if you have a turret system, or place it in a really bad spot).

Re: can the game flag be used?

One stick can't take all the pressure, but a bundle can..

Re: can the game flag be used?

what i meant was parking the robot in front of the center goal for defense against the balls. although i agree that it is very unethical i think of one thing:
a center block is good defense

for this reason i thought it would be cool

Re: can the game flag be used?

I understood what you meant, but I highly doubt it would work. The flag poles are small and flexible enough that a ball would just power right through them.

Re: can the game flag be used?

I don't know if this'll matter much. Seeing this thread FIRST might add a rule revision which bans intentional center goal blocking with the flag.

Re: can the game flag be used?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkwetzel

A rotating turret will most likely not extend to the corners of the legal size of the robot because most people will have it on a circular rotating base. So you could put the flag in the corner of the robot. This would cause your launcher to have a small range in which it could not be used due to the flag being in the way.

We were already planning that, the problem comes in where we are looking at our launcher being roughly 4' feet high, so we have to rase our flag mount up atleast 2 feet to make the top of the flag clear the top of our bot. Not hard, just alot of extra stuff for a flag.

You can, but that dosn't mean you can.

You need to read ALL the rules COMPLETELY to understand them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by <G16>

Maximum Height - A ROBOT may not extend above 60” above the floor or the ALLIANCE PLATFORM in a stable configuration at any time during a match. Each violation shall result in a penalty of 5 points per occurrence or 5 points per ball shot or ball blocked during the occurrence, whichever is greater. ROBOTs designed to violate this rule are not allowed. For example, a ROBOT that extends a blocking device in front of the center goal will be disqualified. Transient conditions that may cause a diagonal dimension of the robot to momentarily exceed the 60” height restriction – such as during a tipover or when climbing onto the ALLIANCE PLATFORM – are not subject to this rule. The one exception to the height restriction is provided in rule <R13> (flag rule).

Empahsis mine. Since <R13> provides the exception, lets go take a look!

Quote:

Originally Posted by <R13>

Robots must use one of the two colored bicycle flags provided at the event queuing location to display their alliance color (red or blue). Each robot must include a 12 inch long, 1/2” ID PVC tube, capped at the bottom, permanently mounted on the robot such that when a 3 foot long, 1/4 inch diameter flagpole is inserted the top of the flagpole is no higher than 6 feet from the ground and the top of the flagpole is at least 12 inches higher than any other point on the robot (+/- 1/2 inch). The flagpole must be mounted such that it starts the match, and remains, approximately vertical. The flagpole receptacle must be statically mounted, and not articulated or actuated.

Ah ha! The flagpole receptacle needs to be mounted such that the flag is 12" taller then the rest of the robot, but less than 6 feet from the ground. So if you make a 5 foot tall robot, the flag MUST be mounted so that the top of the flagpole is at 6 feet. Since the flag is exempt from the height rule, you will not be penalized for it being above 6 feet. No penalty, block away!

Wetzel

Re: You can, but that dosn't mean you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetzel

You need to read ALL the rules COMPLETELY to understand them.

Empahsis mine. Since <R13> provides the exception, lets go take a look!

Ah ha! The flagpole receptacle needs to be mounted such that the flag is 12" taller then the rest of the robot, but less than 6 feet from the ground. So if you make a 5 foot tall robot, the flag MUST be mounted so that the top of the flagpole is at 6 feet. Since the flag is exempt from the height rule, you will not be penalized for it being above 6 feet. No penalty, block away!

Wetzel

Wetzel, while the rules you've quoted definitely show that you won't be penalized for your flag going over 5 feet (something we've already known), they don't help any to determine whether or not you receive a penalty for blocking balls with it (something I still think is pure fantasy, and not even worth the time everyone has spent here thinking about it).

If people are actually worried about this, it obviously needs to be submitted to the Q&A forums to receive a definitive answer.

Re: can the game flag be used?

I'm with Wetzel. But it will be impossible to park in front of the goal and block though. You would need to be at the front of the platform to make any impact.

Allowed to and able are diffrent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

Quote:

Originally Posted by <G16>

Maximum Height - A ROBOT may not extend above 60” above the floor or the ALLIANCE PLATFORM in a stable configuration at any time during a match. Each violation shall result in a penalty of 5 points per occurrence or 5 points per ball shot or ball blocked during the occurrence, whichever is greater.

Cory, you only get penalized for blocking a ball if you are violating the height rule. Since we both agree that the flag does not violate the height rule, we should agree that you won't be penalized for something that doesn't violate a rule.

Wetzel

Re: can the game flag be used?

so in other words no you probably wont get penalized for the game flag blocking a ball.

however the flag probably wont do much as it would snap from the pressure

Re: can the game flag be used?

A couple things to consider...
gondorf, you underestimate PVC's bendability. It won't break with a ball hitting it. If it does, someone is probably penalized for exceeding the muzzle velocity.

Wetzel, <G16> says that any robot extending a blocking device (over 5 ft tall) in front of the center goal will be DQ'd. Plain enough, except that the flag is an exception to the height limit. So, the only question here is: Is the flag a blocking device? I predict that Q&A will have to think this over for a while after someone submits the question. (And by the way, you will be penalized if the top of the flag is over 6 feet from the floor, according to the rules.)

Re: can the game flag be used?

its hard to believe that any of you have been to a competition before.!
you have a 1/4 inch rod and a 7 inch ball. 5 robots tangling with each other. drivers with so much adrenalin that they can barely hold still. and you think that a robot can be positioned to block a 30 inch wide goal.!!
statistically this is a very small event. if you base strategy on this event, you will lose quickly.

jerry w

Re: can the game flag be used?

I wish they just stuck to LEDs. This whole flag thing is confusing.

Re: can the game flag be used?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excelsior

I wish they just stuck to LEDs. This whole flag thing is confusing.

The LEDs were hard to see, and some teams didn't even hook them up or lacked the "back-up battery" to power them. I personally liked the old lights we used, but those drew alot of power.