Chief Delphi - Separate Processor & Robot Rules

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Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Just a curiousity:

Can we use a separate processor (IE: BASIC STAMP) to control the CIM Camera and Camera Servos without violating the rules as long as the I/O is sent to the controller?

Also, is the CIM Camera considered a custom circuit board that can control the pan & tilt servos? If so, can a custom circuit board control only the pan and tilt servos of the camera?

Sorry if any of this was confusing.

-Joe

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

It looks like you may be able to directly connect the servos to your custom circut..

Quote:

<R57> The use of additional electronics is intended to allow teams to construct custom circuits for their robots.
The custom circuits may be used to indirectly affect the robot outputs by providing enhanced sensor feedback
to the Robot Controller to allow it to more effectively decide how to control the robot. In addition to the
required branch power circuit breaker, smaller value fuses may be incorporated in the custom circuits for
additional protection. All outputs from the custom circuits must be connected to the analog inputs, digital
I/O, TTL Serial Port, or Program Port on the Robot Controller.

<R59> Custom Circuits may not:
• Interfere with the operation of other robots
• Directly alter the power pathways between the battery, fuse blocks, speed controller/relay, and motor.
Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to
the robot’s electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be
inconsequential.
• Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying
a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to a relay module
• Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance
station
• Connect to the radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller

However, this may be something to post to the Q&A boards. Last year, they allowed the CMUCam to control its own servos if you wanted it to.

I don't see it addressed in the rules either way.. It's up to you if you assume that means its legal (which I don't recommend), or get someone to post it to the Q&A

I know using a seperate processor to send a signal to the RC to make it change a PWM is legal.

It seems the intent of this rule is so that when the robot is disabled, there is no chance of any part of it moving.. Connecting PWM's to a custom circut would violate this.

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

The CMUcam II (fyi, not "CIM Camera":)) is provided to all teams as part of the Kit Of Parts. As such, you can use it in whatever manner you wish, just as you would any other KOP element. As a KOP element, it would not be considered a custom circuit (unless you modify it), so it would not be restricted by the custom circuit rules with respect to driving servos directly from the CMUcam II circuit board.

-dave

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery

Thank You for the clarification. An engineer and I were looking it up and were curious if our plans were legal. Now we have an idea of where to go from here. Thanks. ;)

-Joe

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

Thank You for the clarification. An engineer and I were looking it up and were curious if our plans were legal. Now we have an idea of where to go from here. Thanks. ;)

-Joe

Didn't team 66 cap the vision tetra last year?

I figured you'd be pretty good at this whole CMUCam thing by now!

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

Didn't team 66 cap the vision tetra last year?

I figured you'd be pretty good at this whole CMUCam thing by now!

once out of ehh.... I'll make a rough estimate of 66 times. :D So we still have a lot of work to do if you know what I mean.

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery

... is provided to all teams as part of the Kit Of Parts. As such, you can use it in whatever manner you wish, just as you would any other KOP element.
-dave

So, FIRST removed the "no packaging material" exception? :D

Ooh, the loopholes! :ahh:

To answer JoeXIII'007's question about connecting the camera to another controller:
I don't think you can do that, based on rule R57 quoted below. The BASIC Stamp is a custom circuit and, the way the rule is written, it cannot command the camera directly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rule R57

All outputs from the custom circuits must be connected to the analog inputs, digital
I/O, TTL Serial Port, or Program Port on the Robot Controller.

If you are concerned about having the camera and multiple sensors connected to the main controller (and I certainly am ;)), I'd suggest offloading the other sensors to your BASIC Stamp or whatever you're using and sending the info back to the RC with the "Program" serial port, since you'd be using the TTL serial port for the camera.

Re: Separate Processor & Robot Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery

<R67> seems to disallow the CMUcam2 from driving the servos as it is most logically classified as a sensor.

Quote:

<R67> You must connect all outputs from the sensors and additional electronics circuits used on the robot directly to the analog or digital I/O on the Robot Controller. Sensors may not be wired so that they directly
control other devices. All loads must be controlled by PWM signals sent by the Robot Controller to relays or speed controllers. It is acceptable to wire switches used as sensors in series or parallel with each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manoel

To answer JoeXIII'007's question about connecting the camera to another controller:
I don't think you can do that, based on rule R57 quoted below. The BASIC Stamp is a custom circuit and, the way the rule is written, it cannot command the camera directly.

If you are concerned about having the camera and multiple sensors connected to the main controller (and I certainly am ;)), I'd suggest offloading the other sensors to your BASIC Stamp or whatever you're using and sending the info back to the RC with the "Program" serial port, since you'd be using the TTL serial port for the camera.

At first I was disapointed that <R57> as written disallows directly connecting the camera to a custom circuit. However, now I realize it closes a major loophole.

Since Dave says you are allowed to connect servos to the camera as it is a KOP item, you could also connect a speed controller. You can send any command to the camera from your custom circuit. One of the commands manually controls the servo ports, which are connected to your speed controllers. Since neither your custom circuit nor the camera get disabled, you could be controlling motors while disabled.

Requiring that the custom circuit has to go through the RC before the camera makes sure that you stay disabled.