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-   -   To ramp, or not to ramp? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42428)

ICE MAN 24-01-2006 11:02
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phrontist
When I first saw the game this year, I was sure we would have to design around getting up the ramp to be competitive. After all, getting three robots up would get you 25 points (9 high-goal shots!). But the more I think about it, it's really doesn't work out this way strategically.

During the final round, if you are good shooter, you'll want to be firing on your goal (right behind the enemy ramp) right up until the buzzer. It seems as though not going for the ramp would give you considerably more time to score, and it seems as though it wouldn't be too hard to position yourself as to block one of the opposing robots from getting on the ramp while scoring.

The more I think about it, the ramp, much like the lower goals, are rather easy to block, and were probably included in the game to provide rookie scoring options.
remember at the kickoff they stated 3 or more robots on the ramp will score 25 points,but they didn't specify who's robot. so if your red you can push one of the blue robots up the ramp and keep them up there. i don't believe there is anything against this.HA HA!

MikeDubreuil 24-01-2006 11:40
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE MAN
so if your red you can push one of the blue robots up the ramp and keep them up there. i don't believe there is anything against this.HA HA!
You are correct. In fact the pinning rule expliclty allows pinning on the allaince platform. Here is the pinning rule:
Quote:
Originally Posted by <G24>
Pinning - While on the carpeted field surface, a ROBOT cannot pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT while in contact with a field element or border) for more than 10 seconds. This rule does not apply if either ROBOT is entirely on an ALLIANCE PLATFORM....

Rick TYler 24-01-2006 11:54
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sachiel7
Hasnt anyone else thought of the possibility of shooting into your goal from the ramp?
We thought of that about thirty seconds after seeing the goal that was set up at our kickoff. Maybe no one else noticed! Shhhhh....

Dancin103 24-01-2006 12:02
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sachiel7
Hasnt anyone else thought of the possibility of shooting into your goal from the ramp?
I sure hope we won't be the only ones... ;)

With the allowed speed FIRST is giving you, which is like 26.8 mph then
this might be hard to fire from your ramp to your goal!!!
I dont know but this is just an opinion!!!

And to get a ball from your ramp to your goal will deffinately need more speed than is allowed!!!

MikeDubreuil 24-01-2006 12:13
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin103
With the allowed speed FIRST is giving you, which is like 26.8 mph then
this might be hard to fire from your ramp to your goal!!!
I agree with Cassie. I think it would be extremely unlikely that you would be able to shoot from your alliance platform to your opponents goal without violating the muzzle velocity rule. Granted, you could attempt to put a spin on the ball and change the aerodynamics but I think it's unlikely that you will reach 54 feet given the 35 foot reference. For example, the allowed muzzle velocity is 39.4 ft/s, assuming no funny aerodynamics you would have to shoot the ball at about 62 ft/s to hit the goal from the alliance platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by <S02>
Muzzle Velocity - No ROBOT may throw a ball with an exit velocity of greater than 12 m/s (26.8 mph). As a reference, a ball traveling at this velocity when leaving the ROBOT at an angle of 30º from horizontal with no spin will travel approximately 35 feet. A robot that violates this rule will be considered unsafe per <S01>.

Sachiel7 24-01-2006 12:44
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Ok, I think I need to clarify something here,
At least two people have posted to this thread assuming we're talking about shooting from our alliance plaform into the opponents goal.
To those of you, I encourage you to re-read the arena section of the manual.
You will notice that your alliances scoring goal lies across the field, while your alliances platform is right in front of your driver station. If you wanted to shoot into the opponent's goal, then you'd need to shoot the hoop right behind your robot.

I agree, its a difficult feat, but we want to see if we cant find a way to do it.
(by staying within the rules)

slickguy2007 24-01-2006 19:35
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Getting back to the endzone ramp is a tough call this year. Ordinarily, you would be able to scan the field quickly to tell if it advantageous to go back and get the points needed.

2003: You can scan for the number of bins in the scoring zones
2005: Scan the field for triple plays

This year seems to be a lot more tricky. In order to make the call and decide whether to go back or not, it would be very helpful to know your score and your opponent's score. You could argue that you can estimate, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that 2 mins can go very fast when you are only paying attention to your own robot (which you will really have to). For me, deciding to tell my drivers wheter or not to come back to the endzone for the bonus points will come with experience as I learn the game from on the field.


GO 1403!!!

Kim Masi 24-01-2006 22:48
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phrontist

The more I think about it, the ramp, much like the lower goals, are rather easy to block, and were probably included in the game to provide rookie scoring options.
I dont think that is entirely true because we built our ramp last weekend, and it is very steep. If your robot is top heavy, the minute you try to climb the ramp you will turn over. Also, the diamond plate makes it really hard to grip, i think very few teams will actually be able to get up the ramp successfully.

Kim Masi 24-01-2006 22:53
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickguy2007

This year seems to be a lot more tricky. In order to make the call and decide whether to go back or not, it would be very helpful to know your score and your opponent's score. You could argue that you can estimate, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that 2 mins can go very fast when you are only paying attention to your own robot (which you will really have to). For me, deciding to tell my drivers wheter or not to come back to the endzone for the bonus points will come with experience as I learn the game from on the field.


GO 1403!!!
Isn't it true though that because the score is automated, it will be like a basketball game where there is a "scoreboard" where the score is constantly updating? although it may not be perfectly accurate, the drive team will still be able to have an idea as to what the score is...

Donut 26-01-2006 00:33
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robochik52
Isn't it true though that because the score is automated, it will be like a basketball game where there is a "scoreboard" where the score is constantly updating? although it may not be perfectly accurate, the drive team will still be able to have an idea as to what the score is...
FIRST has said that the score will be kept in real time, and that if the big screen with the score is not visible to both teams they will set up displays by the alliance stations that they can see with the score. So, it will make last minute point scrambles a bit easier to decide.

I think the ramp is only a worthwhile idea if your alliance can get 3 robots on the platform and your opponents cannot. If your opponents can as well, running back to your own side to get 25 will allow them no hassle in doing the same thing, negating your score. However, if your team can get the 25, and they may only be able to get 5 or 10, it may be a good idea.

Eria4044 26-01-2006 16:38
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
However, if your team can get the 25, and they may only be able to get 5 or 10, it may be a good idea.
If getting up the ramp is as hard as everybody says it is, then the chance of all three robots getting on the ramp and staying there are slim. Having two alliance partners capable of staying on the ramp could be an enormous advantage, considering the increased points for doing so this year.

Ian Curtis 26-01-2006 17:28
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eria4044
If getting up the ramp is as hard as everybody says it is, then the chance of all three robots getting on the ramp and staying there are slim. Having two alliance partners capable of staying on the ramp could be an enormous advantage, considering the increased points for doing so this year.
Why? Through my testing/visualization, if you have one robot on the flat part of the ramp, and one determined to get it off, you'll have one heck of a defensive battle, most likely with the robot who was there, still being on the ramp, although being in no position to be in front of the center goal. If you have two robots on the ramp, and any number of robots attempting to get them off, it'll be a waste of time, the two robots on top will remain on top, although spectacular play by the other alliance could change this. With 3 robots on the ramp, there's no point in trying to evict them. Reason being, the ramp is not very big from a turning standpoint. Assuming you drive straight up the ramp, you'll be hard pressed to turn, unless you can do so in within your starting drive base.

Lil' Lavery 26-01-2006 17:56
Re: To ramp, or not to ramp?
 
Possibly better than having alliance partners who can get on the ramp, is having opponents who cant get off (aka, bottoming them out over the crest).


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