Teams going after the ramp?
 

Just curious if anyone is going after the ramp this year.

We will try, but if it won't work it's not the end of the world. :D

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We will have the option to go for the ramp, but I think that it is not going to be a main feature of many robots. Also, our potential CG has a lot to do with our effectiveness at the ramp. I really don't see it being too key in this game.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

This was my personal thought as well. I thought the ramp relied too much on everyone else being able to make it up the ramp as well.

As a team, we thought the ramp would be a worthy goal because of the 25-point bonus.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

I do feel the GDC did a great job this year with the relative scoring/penalty impact for the various elements of the game. The one problem with the ramp is that if your alliance cannot get all three robots back then it is only worth an incremental 5 points for you to get there.

Our bot will definitely have the capability ... and we may have some related tricks up our sleeve (or whatever robot part compares to a sleeve ...) ;)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

I'm of the school of thought that any robot can make it up the ramp if they're going fast enough ;)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We are going to be able to get on top of the ramp.

And for those teams that have a high CG remember going really fast and then running into the ramp might just allow you to flop on the ramp, where than an alliance can push you up. :D

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Our original thought was that of "the ramp is not worth it" but our robot design allows to go up it if necessary. We would hate to be the only one in the alliance that could not make it.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We're supposed to bring our own robot? O.o

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We're planning on it; time will tell whether the CG of our machine allows it.

Our team brainstorming came to the same conclusion as another poster in this thread - that if your robot can get up the ramp, you make yourself a valuable alliance partner to another team that also thinks it's important.

We saw many games in Triple Play that hinged on the 10-point bonus at the end of the match. Those 10 points were equivalent to a single completed row. The 25-point max team bonus this year equals a lot of balls in the goal. It could be important.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

The largest problem we observed was the clearance because of the seemingly "extreme" 30 degree angle. Being a rookie team and using the stock frame there was a small amount of clearance with the kit skyway wheels, but they did not provide near enough traction so we resorted to the "running start method" and made it up. We purchased new wheels that will hopefully allow us to have a high enough coefficient of friction to claw our way onto the ramp.

-Chuck

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

And you'd be alot more vaulable if you got the torque and the design to help your other alliance robots get up the ramp :D

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We will just speed toward the ramp but with the new traction wheels our robot has it might be able to grip onto the metal...either way we have brakes that will lock the robot in place so we won't roll of the ramp..we might be able to push "other robots" onto the ramp too ;) ;)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

we have proven to ourselves that we can already get completely up the ramp. this is not the key aspect of the game though therefor it will not be the most important to any team. it will however be very helpful to teams if all the robots on an lliance can make it up the ramp because then you will recieve an extra 25 pts. but it would be better just to score in the upper goal if only 1 robot on an alliance has therefore proven itself.

this is my opinion here.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

well i think brake HARD right before the ramp so you fall forwards onto the ramp rather than backwards onto the carpet. easier to push a robot half on the ramp than ompletley on their backs on carpet.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Getting up the ramp is a major part of our strategy (it's 5 points at least and 25 if all three bots get up there. Why not do it?). So much so that we emphasized a bot with a low center of gravity as a major design feature (that means we want a bot under three feet tall) .

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

How about an out-of-the box idea? Cover the front rail of your robot with something soft and highly sticky -- like a layer of natural rubber. Drive up to the ramp and stop when your rubber bumper hits. A ram (which can be nearly 60 inches long under the rules) then extends out from the bottom near the other end, levering the robot up onto its face until the CG passes over the rubber pad and the robot tips up on the ramp. The soft rubber bumper keeps it from sliding back down.

OK, it's weird, but you could use it with a holonomic drive or with the Skyway 8-inch wheels. Somewhere, someone is building just this system into their robot.

Rick's first FIRST rule: If you've thought of and rejected an engineering approach, someone else will successfully implement it. Every conceivable approach will be tried.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Yes are Team is going after the ramp.. its gona be sick...

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We actually are building an assist into our robot, just not the one you described. Time will tell which system is better... :D

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

we're going, hopefully, I think. we just need to make dure our wheels are good. so yeah we're going to try. those bonus point sure sound nice. :)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Yes! You guys are on the right track, I think this is the minimum a rookie team should aim for.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Another thing to keep in mind. The rules specify off the carpet, not necessarily on the flat part of the platform.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

I personally can't understand how some teams could not think that the ramp is important. It's 25 points if everyone can do it, that's a lot! I'd hate to be on the only team in an alliance that could not make it up, that'd be quite a letdown. So yes, we are indeed going for the ramp.

I am liking the out of the box ideas though. Heres one: latch onto the side wall of the ramp (the ones that are supposed to keep you from falling off) and just clamp on so your robot is just barely lifted off the carpet. That would be cool.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We can get up the ramp, we need quite a bit of a running start though. The wheels kept on slipping, I hope that diamond plating has a higher coefficient of friction then smooth plywood.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Of course, we are trying and wea re trying to work out our clearance issues.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

The problem with this school of thought is that in practice it doesn't work. When you are running at the ramp at a great velocity, you will hit the steep ramp and essentially bounce back. If what you meant to say was that "If you are going fast enough when on the ramp" then that's funny (seriously).

[QUOTE = antthecyberguy]Our original thought was that of "the ramp is not worth it" but our robot design allows to go up it if necessary. We would hate to be the only one in the alliance that could not make it.[/quote]

I'm absolutely in agreement. You don't want to be the "downer" on your team that can't get up the ramp at the end, especially if your teammates are counting on you. Nicely said.


Paul Dennis

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Help other alliance. We plan on pushing the other teams robots our ramp just to make sure we get 25 points and they don't, that is a big swing of points.

and if they are stuck on your ramp they can't score :) and there are no pinning on the ramp.

Question is how many robots can you push up the ramp in 40 seconds :ahh:

power, speed nice

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

My guess is one. Unless you can co-ordinate with your alliance partner to hold the first on in place while you go get the second. And after the first one the other guys might decide to stay away from you.

:)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We're going for the ramp this year, with our design we have a couple of millimeters of clearence. We might move the front wheels back a little... what if their ramp is a mm off of what ours is, then we're in ruin ;-;

I think getting up the ramp will be important, to the point that if you cant do it, you will disappoint other teams. Really all there is to it is having the ground clearence.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

And a low enough CG ;)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Well atleast someone saw my humor behind this. And what might sound stupid might be a good idea if you cant get up there by yourselfs. Have someone on your alliance push you up if they have th power or you can withsatnd being pushed.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We are planning on installing a parking brake on one wheel. To mount the ramp we are going to hit it at an angle as fast as we can, engage the parking brake and slide sideways into our parking spot. This way we don't have to worry about tilting backwards! The key component to this plan is speed though! :D

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

something i just thought of. you can use the reverse method. how about instead of pinning an opposing robot on you ramp, sit on their ramp and prevent them from coming up. that gives them 5 points but not 25.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Here is a video of Team 1480 parking their robot.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

If you can prevent all of them from getting up the ramp this might be something to look at. However, remember you have just given them 5 points, and taken 15 points away from your own alliance. If you are successful in blocking them, the net is +5 for your alliance. But if they can get one robot on the ramp despite your maneuvering to block, the net effect is 0. You would have achieved the same result if you ignored their ramping attempts and just focused on your own end.

If you know they can't get at least one of their robots on their ramp, you will come out +15 by getting all three on your own ramp.

You may be able to block the other alliance and then scoot off their ramp at the last second, thus depriving them of the 5 points your bot would have scored. Even so, not much gain for a risky strategy.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Since i'm seeing a lot of out-of-the-box ideas, what about this? If your robot can shoot well and time's running down, dump a load of balls on their flat part of the ramp. it prevents them getting on the ramp :S. I know its a little bit of a point loss, but it could be worth it.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Another nice thing about robots with a low center of gravity is that it'll be much harder to have someone hit you to fall.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

RATS! I guess yall beat us to our idea already! :)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

I see people talking about the 25 point bonus for the ramp but realistically, will most of your alliance partners be able to climb the ramp?

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

That was my problem; however it looks like most will based on this poll!

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Just try reading this.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Even the best-laid plans sometimes don't work out. Most teams probably plan to get up the ramp, but when push comes to shove, I don't believe many teams will manage to get up the ramp in the crunch of the last seconds.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We hope we can make up the ramp. It would be tough to have your alliance members setting there waiting for you. Maybe they will be able to drag us up???

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

we at team 815 can go up the ramp from a sitting position at the base of the ramp while carrying 120 lbs. this was one of our main goals

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

With out any obstructions (balls - other robots) it's relatively easy to go up the ramp straight on. Try it at an angle approach with the robot at competition weight . It's a little more interesting

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Ok, the space those balls would take up is minimal. It would take 20 or so balls to begin to prevent a robot weighing 145lbs (battery and bumpers) from going up the ramp. Remember your robot needs to be off the carpet not on top of the ramp. Plus if you spat those balls up there you could have just spat them into a goal and gained 20 pts instead of blocking 15 at most. I really do think it is better just to be able to get more points during the play period and not worry about the ramp. But things do change and we hope our top heavy robot can make it up the ramp...

But then again gyroscopes... gyroscopes...

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

I really have to agree with you there. You are basically testing how well your robot can perform under crappy conditions.
What about gyroscopes? Oh yeah, are any teams attempting to have their robot shoot from the ramp?

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

I dont care how many gyroscopes you have.. if you cant change the position of the base over the COG (in the direction of gravity), you are going to tip!

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Nonsense. If you tip the robot in the same direction you accellerate, with appropriate gyroscopic control it could have it's COG over the base indefinately. Some clever fellow a few years back made a little scooter based on this principal and made so much on the idea he can afford the finest denim in the land.

Blocking someone from getting up the ramp is strategically equivalent, and an order of magnitude easier, than getting up the ramp. We will not be going up the ramp this year and if you're against us, you won't be either. ;)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Team 204 will be able to go up the ramp. It was one of the first items we talk about.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

our team is deffinatley gonna try for the ramp. and if at all possible we're gonna try and get as many other teams up as we can if we can push em' up.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

were gonna try to make it but if some one on our alince cant we plan to block the other teams robots for getting on the platform :)

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

That would make an ideal trait for robots this year. I am not sure if I mentioned this before, but I will mention it again if I have. To be able to push other alliance members up the ramp you should be able to push yourself up. If during the seeding process you accumulate a decent amount of points for your current alliance you will be one of the top pick for the leading teams. Your alliance afterward would gain a significant advantage.

but then again, there will be teams who will do what I just said. That would kind of lessen the chances of winding up on a good alliance.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We initially considered running up the ramp REALLY FAST, but then we realized that if you went fast enough, you would bounce off of the top. :ahh:

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Our approach and departure angle is enough to clear. We have 6 wheels so there is no center clearance problem. However, between the front and middle wheels, and between the middle and rear wheels, there is not enough clearance. We are probably about 1" too low. I think it will still make it up if it teeters properly but I'm not 100% sure. We might need to make a forceful run at it. If that doesn't work, we'll be able to get and stay on the diamondplate. If we roll back down. We'll make a brake. We might not get on the horizontal part, but we'll definitely get and stay on the diamondplate which is just as good for scoring points.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

So far we are having no trouble with the ramp.
We are still in build/adjust mode though.

Carolyn

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

O.K. people, we have two weeks left to build. your team should really pick up the pace.

You mean you are relying on your momentum? If you ever manage to get fast enough you have ground clearence, a crucial point brought up by sanddrag(thank you very much), and the possibility that you may just launch yourself a few inches from the ground, hit the wall, and crash on to the ramp. this may sound minor at first, consider the chance something broke inside or you basically ruin the field. even if it was a total accident you should avoid this. Besides, you may also richochet off the wall and your robot slide down the ramp and touches the carpet. Before you can get it off the carpet the time runs out.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Our robot shouldn't have much trouble going up the ramp from what I've seen it do so far (it ran over a team member on tile floor - unexpectedly). I can't wait until we get to test it out.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

If you make a robot robust enough, why not go for the ramp, it's one of the easiest things in the competition to do.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

WOW! Have you even thought about all the variables that go into going up the ramp? If your CoG is high then that CoG will most likely be moved off the base when you go up a 30 deg. ramp! Let’s do the math. If you have a robot whose CoG is 40 inches above the ground and in the center of the robot then using trig you find that the CoG is moved around 23 inches on a 30 deg incline, and with that the CoG is bound to be outside of the base. But if you want more proof, then if its at 30 inches the movement is 17 inches which is you add in momentum and other factors might be enough to get up the ramp but that’s not taking into account all of the diamond plate that’s on the ramp that very slick and hard to get up.
(not 100% sure on the math (tan Theta x dist??))

Pushing around balls/robots has got to be the easiest part of the game (not collecting them). But other than that our team has decided that the ramp isn’t worth enough to go for it but if the robot can do it then good.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Ditto with team 1523. We have four wheel drive and built into design enough clearance to make, specifically to prevent problems such as this: http://chiefdelphi.com/forums/pictur...&quiet=Verbose

I think the problem with six wheel design is that the robot will likely have a high center of gravity. This, coupled with the robot matching the angle of the ramp until it reaches the crest where it could potentially slam down onto the flat surface of the ramp, damaging components.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

We tried to go up with 4" wheels... That was dumb, seeing as we mounted them so the frame would jam on the ramp. Now we dropped the brackets down and it climbs by itself.

Re: Teams going after the ramp?
 

Are you saying your robot is completely autonimous? No human player needed, whatsoever? I guess most of your team, if not all, will be focused on repairing any damages to itself durning the competitions.

team 599 is still in the building process. we haven't even connected any electronics to the chasis at all. we are still tweaking with the default code.