Chief Delphi - Is FIRST a Sport

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Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

if you think FIRST is not a sport, then what would it take to make it a sport by your definition?

Motor cross, motorcycle racing, Nascar - the athlete is in the vehicle being driven. If we changed FIRST so that the driver was IN the robot on the field, would that make it a real sport?

What about sports like sailing, bobsled racing, or other sports where the athlete is not suppling the energy that moves the vehicle in any way, the wind, or gravity is? How is controlling a million dollar sailboat different from controlling a $100,000 (time and resources invested) robot?

What about sports like golf, where almost no physical strength or stamina is required? Golf is all about skill controlling the motion of a club to hit a ball. How is that different from the skill required to control a machine to move a ball on the playfield?

To me, NASCAR and motocycle racing are both competitions. Thats is purely opinions, it is just how I view the concept of sports. I think that they lack the physical exertion that is required in a sport.

As to sailing and bobsled racing, the 'athletes' are participating in sport (to me) because their actions require a large degree of precision. FIRST drivers require the same amount of precision I agree. However, they do not physically shift their weight, as in bobsledding, or physically raise a sail. They press a button that enacts a series of commands in the controller that causes a motor/servo/pneumatic to do it for them. This is a key difference.

However, you bring up a good point with golf. Golf is clearly a sport in popular belief, yet at the same time, it holds many of the same characteristics as FIRST. To attempt counter this argument, I think that it is nessecarry to again put into perspective the relationship between the golf club and the person. The person hitting the golf ball is using the club to act as an extenion of his arm. The golf club is passivly hitting the ball; the force causing the ball to move come directly from the person swinging the club. However, the force that moves robots comes from motors that in turn are controlled by the drivers.Therefore, there is a small, but important difference.

Two more points that make FIRST a non-sport:

Autonomous mode: This section requires abosolutley no input or interaction from the 'athletes' (drivers). However, it is clearly an important part of the game, as it determines (this year) what position each team will play first.

Robot failure: At many times during competition, robots will break or run out of battery or simply not respond. The 'athletes' have no control after this happens and need to passivly watch the rest of the game commence. Therefore, the robots are the ones that are actually 'athletes' if FIRST were to be a sport. because the definition of an athlete is
"A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as
strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise
or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts,"
(Dictionary.com)
FIRST is not a sport, because the robots are not people.

Again all of this is pure opinion, but I urge all of you to do your best to counter it. Opinions, of course, can be changes. :o

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

I would like to go back to a point Cody C made that I really relished. He said...

Quote:

I have a feeling that a lot of us here in FIRST only want to consider this a sport so that we can check the little box on a survey that says “I Participate in a high-school athletics program." And pat ourselves on the back for being "just as good" as the football, or basketball players. I won't hold myself to those standards, because I don’t play in a sport, and I am not an athlete. Truth is... We, being children of FIRST, have a much better chance of succeeding in life while doing what we want to be doing than a football player does. Tell me a sport that 3 teams have to band together to win... show me a sport that the athletes are as friendly with their opponents as they are their allies.

Most of the colleges I am applying to probably don't care that much if Robotics is a sport or not a sport. Nor does my employer, and nor does my school. FIRST brings a different set of skills to an individual and a group than sports do...and I would rather have allies in FIRST any day.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugenia Gabrielov

I would rather have allies in FIRST any day.

Agreed. Just because it isn't a sport doen't mean you won't get into college. And I highly doubt that a colllege admissions officer is going to think that it is a sport, even if your school does.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by artdutra04

:confused: Yes, this is just my opinion, but I have to disagree with the above statements. As one of the drivers for my team, I know exactly what it is like to be under the spotlight, to get your robot from point A to B while avoiding the opponents, and cordinating your actions with those of your alliance partners.

Examples: Maintainance of the ~~car~~ robot, ~~fuel~~ battery conversation, driving techniques, the skill it takes to drive ~~at those speeds~~ the robot successfully with two drivers, the considerations the drivers have to take (surface, ~~temperature~~ other robots, ~~weather~~ the quantity of poof balls left in your alliance's goals, the number of poof balls in the opponent's goals, how easily the other alliance will will score, etc, and much more!). The amount of strategy that goes into winning is immense. What about alliances? The amount of strategy that goes into coordinating your moves with your alliance partners to maximize your score with your team's abilities is unparallel in NASCAR.

FIRST is an "apples to apples" comparision with NASCAR, and because of the intensity of both they are both sports. :)

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this as well. By calling FIRST a sport, you are not trivializing what real athletes do. In fact, you are calling to light what real FIRSTers do. If someone was to spend 30 hours a week at robotics meetings, staying up until 3 AM every night working on their team's website, teaching themselves CAD and Inventor along the way, being the co-driver for their team, being on multiple sub-teams, and much much more, would you say that this person trivializes what real athletes do? On the contrary, I think this person would prove how much effort really goes into FIRST, and would prove that FIRSTers are not trivializing athletes.

Trying to be humble: All of those describe what I do for my team, so yes, those are based of a real person. :)

About the NASCAR comparison, you're missing the point. The reason I said that NASCAR could be compared to FIRST in some aspects is because of the things you pointed out, however, the fundamental difference is that NASCAR drivers are put under much more pressure than FIRST participants. Those drivers are out there risking their LIVES for that competition. FIRSTers are just risking their pride. Yes, on a fundamental level, NASCAR and FIRST are quite similar, but FIRST is no where near as intense as NASCAR. Do I think NASCAR is a sport? As stated already, no. However, it is a much more intense "competition" than FIRST. I was a driver too, and I'll agree that it's intense, but it can't be equated to being under the lights on a football field. pwilczynski hit the nail on the head.

As far as trivializing the work of athletes goes, I once again think you're missing my point. I think we can all agree that a person couldn't just walk up and do some of the things that we as FIRSTers do (IE: Building robots, formulating strategy, etc). By the same token, not just anyone can walk up and do what some athletes do. If you call FIRST a sport, you imply that the participants are athletes, which seems to trivialize not only the work that real athletes do, but the work we do as well. Would you say being able to run fast is the same as being able to construct a championship-quality robot? No, they're completely different. Don't try to make the two equal.

As Dean has said, FIRST is similar to a sporting event, but there are key differences. Let's not try and make FIRST be a sport, because it's far different. Remember, I'm not trying to say that FIRST is inferior because it's not a sport. FIRST and sports are similar, but different. Neither is better than the other, they are each worthwhile in their own right.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB330033

FIRST and sports are similar, but different. Neither is better than the other, they are each worthwhile in their own right.

I think that says it better than any of us.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyik

According to Dictionary.com a sport is....

1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

With that definition, you could also say playing video games is a "sport", which it most definately is not.

Golf is refered to as "The game of golf" for a reason.

Auto racing, motocross, etc best fits as a competition

Quote:

com·pe·ti·tion Pronunciation Key (kmp-tshn)n.

1. The act of competing, as for profit or a prize; rivalry.
2. A test of skill or ability; a contest: a skating competition.
3. Rivalry between two or more businesses striving for the same customer or market.
4. A competitor: The competition has cornered the market.

Competition is a much more generalized term, and thats why I believe FIRST is not a sport, it never was, and it never will be a sport.

Plus, FIRST calls this, The FIRST Robotics Competition.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

FIRST is not to be compared with NASCAR, motocross, or any other vehicle related sport. When you drive a robot, you are not ON the robot, moving at 35+ Mph and having to think about the fact that if you make one mistake, you could very well lose your life.

The reason that saying FIRSTis a sport belittles Athletes is because it says "Yeah, we do the physical activity that you do AND are smarter than you" We don't participate in the same level physical activity at all.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Generally speaking, sports require long preparation, quick action, and immense physical exertion. FIRST is all these things, except physical. The only workout I get from FIRST is standing all day on an empty stomach, and maybe blood loss.

However, I prefer FIRST, which I call a competition, in most respects, to my other major "sport", soccer. There is no need to say FIRST is a sport because you turn a wrench, because its fine as it is, without the title of "sport". Besides, there are other advantages: with the title of "sport", you have to take showers with other guys...

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

I disagree, I believe that FIRST is not a sport but an activity, a junction where team members come and design,built and even test what they have accomplished. For many it something that changes lives ( LIKE ME) and it does wonders for the world.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

I am not sure about you guys but we definately get a mental workout and we do a lot of running between the pits and the stands. Despite this I would say robotics is not a sport.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by IraJason

I would have to say, for a pep rally meant to introduce all the 2006 sports teams and having our robot be the first thing to make an appearance, I would have to consider FIRST to be a sport...

or at least the people who come up with our pep rallies think it is...

True that. My team's robot was the feature of last year's final pep rally, so we gave a nice little demonstration to all that were there. Most of them liked it, especially the part where the principal and one of the teachers pushed our 2004 robot with our 2005 robot towards one section of the stands and people had to crawl out of the way so robots wouldn't crush them (this was followed by us grabbing the controls back from them so no injuries occured).

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I personally can't think of anything less relevant to my life than asking, "is FIRST a sport?", but there is room in my life for meaningless amusements.

You've all missed the point, though. A sport is any activity for which you wear special shoes.

You may now continue your discussion.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

I believe it is, but outsiders that do not understand all of the aspects of FIRST do not...they just see us as a bunch of tech geeks (we are but we're proud of it.

and first is much more than a techie gathering

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

A new form of sport is how I precieve it. The sweat, the pressure, the practice! the sport of Engineering.

Re: Is FIRST a Sport

Can you pull a groin doing something in FIRST? If you can... it's a sport.