Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Yesterday when making a post about rookie teams I got walked all over


What Does everyone think? After getting trampled and receiving -120 rep points i could use a little help

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Some people just dont know how to take critisism, this board is a great recourse for FIRST teams but [insert your diety here] dangit, you people need to toughen up!

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

After reading your posts, I suspect that a large number of the members of this forum decided that someone wondering if everyone hates rookie FIRST teams probably didn't have the kind of positive attitude towards helping out other teams that is typically prized on this forum and in the FIRST competition. Thus the negative reps.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

It takes a lot for me to give negative rep to someone. But there's a few on here who seem to have no problem giving it out like candy.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

This program is not for everyone. Thus we expect those who are participating to be of a higher grade, and we hold them to a higher standard as such. Rudeness, name-calling etc are symbols of immaturity and childishness. That is not the type of people who belong here. As I've told my students, I am not your babysitter. If you are adult enough to be a participant in this program, then you are adult enough to act like an adult. It's fine to have fun, it's awesome, just look at the "Being silly" section of our website. But there is a line between having fun and acting like a child. We expect the people that post on these forums to not only act like an adult to represent themselves well, but also to represent their teams well (see thread "What Happened to Class"). Bottom line, the people who are active on here are professionals. They are mentors. They are not babysitters and expect the students on here to be able to act old enough that we wouldn't have to put them in time-out.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I feared that this day would be a long time coming. I hope that everyone who reads this thread or posts maintains an open mind about it, because something like this has the propensity to cause a ton of controversy. But at the same time, I believe that this thread should be left open because of the concerns that it raises.

For more than three full seasons I have witnessed the growth of ChiefDelphi, in users and in posts. I have also witnessed the arrival of many different personalities (not a surprise given the increased number of users) and as such, some of these personalities have been a direct contrast to what is usually seen in FIRST Veteran Circles, or what ChiefDelphi might have been (I am not that old school :rolleyes: ). However, time and again I have witnessed the same arguments from the same group of veterans. There is one group who take themselves far too seriously and expect everyone to act in accordance with the conventions that they established, informally or not. There is another group of these same individuals that espouse the need for acceptance and freedom of expression while stipulating that new posters should take the time to read the forum rules, outline their thoughts and ideas and avoid provoking individuals. Because of concerns raised in past seasons, I am glad to say that I have witnessed a distinct shift toward the latter group. However, some individuals continue to maintain a collectively held belief that ChiefDelphi is a bastion of expression that can only be sorted in one form, their form.

Granted Pyro's original post was lacking in a well-formed argument, or even a relevant topic, but I see absolutely no reason in giving him 120 negative reputation points. No where does he actively insult a FIRST team, but he divulges his personal beliefs on the state of freshmen in a high school, something the same group of posters on ChiefDelphi have no doubt said before, only in a different context or tone. Why should he immediately be slammed for something like that? What I would have liked to have seen is someone posting about why that kind of reasoning or argument should have been left to somewhere else, or the fact that he should have presented some form of evidence or relevance about the freshmen treatment. I firmly believe that either negative reputation or reputation itself should just be scrapped in general. For someone who consistently abuses the forums, negative reputation isn't going to stop them. For someone who just doesn't understand, a PM or a posting in reply that is well-formed, patient and respecting of their opinion would be far more effective, despite the fact that you can now attach comments to reputation.

I realize that ChiefDelphi isn't a free board, there are rules that everyone should follow, but for something as trivial as Pyro asked, there was absolutely no reason to slam him with that many negative points. Obviously you cant track how many he received, but I would like to believe that individuals would think to post or private message him first about his topic rather than trying to discourage him in such a manner.

Everyone has a different maturity level in their lifetimes and they still need to be respected and to have their opinions heard.

There are a lot of great people who have yet to post on ChiefDelphi and a lot of great people who have stopped posting due to the amount of politics and incidents like this. Let's not scare them off anymore. Please.

Veterans, be smart in how you treat newcomers. Point them to rules, guidelines and above all be patient with them. FIRST and ChiefDelphi aren't exclusive clubs, indeed, they are meant for everyone to experience.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Ditto I don't think Ive given out one yet. One thing to keep in mind is that emotion and tone don't carry over well over the Internet. Though content of posts might play into it a bit. Something I had to learn, keep in mind that you are writing to all types of people mentors, sponsors, students, teachers, veteran team members, new team members, rookie teams, etc... It helps to review posts to see if theirs something in their that CD on a whole might not approve of. You can't please everybody and their are cases where people generally do overreact to posts but I don't think that thread fits in either category. Just think posts over.

Also J Flex 188 has it on the dot. I find if someone has a problem with something someone posts and it's a big enough deal that they feel the urge to negative rep that person it might be more beneficial and productive to message them first. Sometimes people really don't know that what they are saying may be offensive. Most people are reasonable enough to change their post or keep what you said in mind in the future as long as you aren't hostile in your mail. Also it may be good for readers to look at a post and think "Is it the post or is it just me". Sometimes we over react to things and thats where a PM can clear a bunch of confusion.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I think if you read the threads I PM'ed you then you would probably understand why some have given you negative rep. Just in case you didn't get them the first time, here they are:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/announcement.php?f=16

If you start here, then you're off to a good start to understanding what is expected on these forums when you post.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

to get hit with that many - rep points in one day Pyro must have hit a raw nerve with a lot of people!

very often new (freshman) teams do have problems. Sometimes we do get rookie teams who think FIRST is battlebots, or who are way skewed on the mentor designed/student designed balance of things.

We have awards for rookie-of-the-year at regionals because it IS very challenging for a rookie team to excell side by side with vetran teams.

That being said, if you post something on CD and the red dots start flowing your way, you do have the option to go back and edit what you said, or to acknowledge that you appear to have offended a lot of people.

The irony of all this is Pryo has 14 posts, so he is a rookie on this forum. People are jumping on his case for making generalizations about rookie teams and at the same time wacking his rep for acting like, well... like a CD rookie :^)

CD rookie: someone new to the forum who does not yet understand the norms and workings of this place.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

If you say anything other than what everyone expects you to say, then you will be reacted to. If you calculate well, and determine what words would be most effective, then you'll float upstream.

If you must say what's on your mind, then you may have to learn to do it well. That is, you have to convince everyone that what you think is actually the way to go. You do this by presenting your ideas exactly how everyone expects to hear them (psst, they don't have to be valid, they just need to be said properly).

Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I read your thread this afternoon and it seemed as though you were asking a rhetorical question designed to generate a lot of response. If I were wondering what other teams thought of rookie teams, I'm not sure I would have phrased it quite that way and it could have generated a lively (healthy) debate on the subject (although I think I know what most people would say).

We all make posts we wish we could take back. We all have typos, misspellings and poor grammar occasionally. We all feel strongly about certain aspects of this program, and that is what makes it so special. We all have mis-interpreted a post because we are not having a face-to-face discussion and cannot detect body language or speech inflections or have forgotten to put a smilie face next to something meant to be a joke. Are we thin-skinned? I don't think so.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Well... after reading your thread, you did come off as a bit negative towards rookie teams.

As being a member of a rookie team and participating in an off-season event, I would have to say that many veteran teams and members are willing to help out rookie teams and accept them into the FIRST community. I personally have never been looked down upon by members of other teams or on these boards for being a rookie. In fact, our team has been praised by some for getting as far as we have this season. Everyone here is just trying to help each other out, and it is usually frowned upon when somebody says something offensive or rude about other members of the FIRST community, especially when they are new and are trying to be accepted into the community as a whole.

Now would I penalize you for your comments? Personally, no I wouldn't. I would formulate my own argument on why I do not agree with you, and see where it goes from there. Yes, some people are quick to judge, and would rather punish you for what you have already said rather then hearing what you reply to them, but that is why you should be as professional and as courteous as possible when posting. Come up with a full fledged argument that anyone can understand, then let people respond to it. We are all grown ups here, and we should be able to carry out civilized conversations that prove that.

With that put out there, I must add one last thing. In any place, whether it be on these forums or out in daily life, everyone should be as courteous and professional as possible to one another. You never know who may be out there that may take offense to what you say and penalize you greatly for it. Like Dean Kamen said, "Life isn't fair." Sometimes you just got to suck it up and take the consequences for your actions.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Negative Rep may or may not be a good way to give feedback, but it's not a matter of being thin-skinned at all. Rude and insensitive comments about freshman, rookies, or any other group aren't tolerated, period.

In the popular culture of the US it has become way too easy and way too common for individuals to poke fun at or even taunt others. It's one thing to joke with an individual you know, but it's quite another to poke fun at groups of people, especially since our founder tells us every year to HELP start new rookie teams so more people can be a part of FIRST and feel welcome. I chose not to confront/post/PM/negative rep the thread the first time I read it, but I am a mentor of a rookie team. I left a very successful veteran team to start a new one. I believe that's what our founder and leaders wanted me to do and it was a change that I was ready for. I was and I still am offended that someone, even in jest, would suggest here that rookies and/or freshman have less value than others just because they are "new" or have different needs.

While the thread in question ( http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...?postid=450960 ) may have been an innocent mistake and a rain of negative rep may not have been the best way to get through to this one individual, everyone who posts on Chiefdelphi as a member of a FIRST team needs to understand something simple, yet difficult...

FIRST is about changing the popular culture. It's about coopertition, gracious professionalism, learning skills that will help us solve society's hardest problems, celebrating an inclusive way of advancing the culture. If you are here and are part of a FIRST team, then the assumption is that you understand this. Don't believe me? Ask Dean Kamen, Dr. Woodie Flowers, Dave Lavery (do you know the dollar figure NASA puts toward rookies every year on purpose?), the board of directors, FIRST HQ Staff, regional directors, senior mentors, ...

Different folks react differently to posts/threads that are in direct contrast to the mission and goals of FIRST. Some will PM. Some will post. Some will negative rep. Some will report posts to moderators. However, you can be assured that such behaviors will not be ignored, they will be confronted. While in many other places in our culture poor behavior will be let go, in FIRST it will be dealt with in one way or another.

Pyro, it's my sincere hope that you see this as a learning experience and move forward. While you might not like the way others handled their responses, you sure can admit that your thread did cast a negative light on both rookies and freshman. As far as I'm concerned, you have now had a chance to learn and understand the big picture. Let's move forward, more positively.

Namaste.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

everyone picks up on the 'professional' part of GP, but very often we gloss over the 'gracious' part

being gracious is when your long lost cousin shows up for your wedding, wearing blue jeans and a Tee shirt

and instead of ripping his spleen out through his nostrils, you tell him how great he looks, how happy your are to see him,

and hey I just happen to have a new dress shirt and tie that would look great on you (almost as if you were prepared for something predictable?)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Manipulation? ;)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I think you need to learn a bit about behaving yourself in public.

If you come on here and say "Do you hate rookies like you do freshmen? I know they don't all suck, but most do", you should be fully aware that many people will not like what you've said.

When you make comments like that, you make yourself and your team look stupid. If you want to talk with your friends about how much everyone sucks, feel free. But don't come on here and do it, where the whole goal is to make rookies/new people comfortable in a community where we can all share information.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

You bring up a lot of good points.

I believe that the organizers and moderators and everyone associated with these fora are worried about how to manage this and how to strike the right balance.

It has gotten harder and harder as the shear number of posts gets too big to read without making a full time job.

I think some of the problem comes from variations in moderator style.

Shear numbers dicated that we've had to open up the moderation to a larger number of people. This has lead to some variation between what moderators accept. We try to use similar standards, but it is not easy to get a group of people to all rule identically.

So... ...do we need to get a little thicker skin? Maybe.

Are neg. rep points a problem? Probaby yes, in some cases.

Do we need to open the fora up to all comers and all comments? No.

This thread is a good opportunity to think about how we can improve.

I think we can all support more free speech if there is a general concenus among ChiefDelphi.com users that yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater is not an acceptable use of that freedom.

Joe J.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Ya know, I often think that we as FIRSTers often get wrapped up in the "lets change the world through gracious professionalism" way of life. It often shows here on Chief Delphi, and people tend to take a post for what is said instead of what it truely is. I think Joel hit something right on the head with his response...and whether we like it or not, its the truth. The FIRST community as a whole kinda has its own way of speaking, thinking, and acting. Often when an individual says something that might be contraversial or edgy, they get flamed because it goes against your typical "normalcy" found on this board. Take for instance Pyro's post. Valid point and conversation topic...just horribly said. Unfortunately as a result of not wording it in the "gracious professionalistic" kind of way, the true value of the post got left behind, and next thing you know the thread is locked. People see the wording, they immediately jump to action, clicking the negative rep button as fast as they possibly can, and next thing you know...everything spirals downhill.

My point is this...maybe sometimes along with judging how someone posts, we all need to also judge how we ourselves react.

It does seem like everyone is a little thin skinned lately. Of course that is just my opinion.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I go to alot of messageboards and it is a serious balancing act on how to conduct the board.
I call CHiefdelphi the Clean Room because it's like a pure environment here. There is no trolls (a HUGE messageboard problem) and the drama threads are really minor annoyances (try any thread on race and religon and watch things get ugly fast).
About the only other messageboard that was "on course" as CD is CG Talk which is all business. On other boards the poster don't repsect one another. Often engage in name calling and thread hijacking commonly, insted of debating like ratinal adults. Will resort to posting mocking threads or even vulgar images to belittle other poster and have multiple accounts so they can engage in trolling.
Yeah alot of what the mods have to do may seem like mind control but if the mods weren't here, believe me, CD would be a VERY unpleasant place to be.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I have gotten annoyed this year and last on almost every post I had. It makes it harder and harder for me to make the time to come here. There are a lot of very smart students that are savy and computer literate, Yet some have no true real world experience. I have owned my own company for over ten years and support dozens of other compaines in Video/Web/Graphic Design/ and Multimedia Technologies. I often stick to forums on these topics. I feel everytime I post a technique or solution to a question, I get lambasted. Recently A user made a new tread on Web Hosting for FIRST Teams- So after his sales pitch, I posted a reply that didn't discount his offer but offered an alternative- By the end of the page- I got told that my sugested company was no good (by somone who admiting to having no experience with the company- go figure) and then I was told if I didn't want the first guys company than just don't use it. I was furious. I couldn't believe that I couldn't make a sugestion without being jumped all over. I find the same when people talk about different programs. I get people that are religious about some free download or some "in-thing" and my time tested professional sugestions (which offen offer different price range solutions) gets destroyed by people that have no real experience.

I'd love people to be more tolerant and take sugestions as just that. I'd also love people with no experience on subjects to refrane from being so adiment. Its ok to have oppinions- but why attack everyone elses who differs.

Good luck as the weeks wind down.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

On CD, as in life, you have to say what you want carefully, (and it's a lot easier on CD, where you get to look over your words before you post them) but at the same time, if we spend all our lives trying to sidestep offending someone, we never get anything done. Did Dean Kamen worry about the minority that would hate Segways when he designed them? No, he thought about the people that would benefit from them!

And though I hate to say it, because I know in life I've offended a lot of people for blurting something out before I thought about it, but Pyro, your thread was a little offensive. Maybe if it was something like, "Are rookie teams treated like freshmen," fewer people would have been irritated. As is, I think you got more bad rep from freshmen who took offense at the negative connotation you put on their name.

But like I said, we all say and do dumb things, me especially, and sometimes all you can do is apologize.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

OK... I don't know about you but because one person makes a mistake becaue he is new to a forum... I don't pass judgement on an entire team !!
I also don't appreciate the fact that in a passive way, you called both Pyro, and team 306 stupid. We people on chiefdelphi ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EACHOTHERS FRIENDS, and therefore we are supposed to be able to talk to eachother about subjects that don't really offend anyone. Also, Pyro is a rookie/ new person to this forum... Do you think that -120 rep points made hime feel comfortable or welcome???? No. I tried to help him, but my meager 13 positive rep points did absolutely nothing. As can be expected.

Aren't you glad that I didn't give you negative rep for posting something that I didn't like?

Remember, Being on this forum for a long time lets you learn not to post truly what you feel, but a watered down version of it so that you will not get flamed ( not exactly Right in my eys, by hey, Who cares right?)... Pyro hasn't learned this yet.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Good question -
I'd have to say that some are and some are not.
Some just want to protect the integrity of the website.
Some just want to keep the threads topics above the flame wars and name calling level.
Some use the ability to negatively rep a poster to send a message.
Some have never used negative reps (me for one).
Every year someone (usually a rookie or trouble maker) gets slammed with negative rep after posting comments that match what we have warned everyone about (see the stickies all over the place???).

I have advocated on many occasions to reduce the number of forums - particularly the ones where the flame wars and troublesome posts usually turn up (Chit Chat, in particular) and I am continually reminded that the posts wouldn't go away - they would be posted on a different inappropriate forum. So, we leave the troublesome forums "out there".

Every year, we hope that the new visitors (not always rookies) read the advice that our long standing users have provided and take heed in the warnings about what and how to post (behave) in order to keep things operating smoothly.

Most of the time - it goes pretty well, but once in a while we have moderators that have to deal with issues.

I do understand the protective nature of the folks that want this site to be managed "within" and at a standard that their grandmother would be proud of - the mantra of a very smart person associated with FIRST. I'd like to think that we do everything we can to do just that.

In closing, I also recognize that "new folks" that may not be aware of "how it works" on this site might need a break for a short while until they read the sticky posts and get used to what the expected behavior is. So, I will inquire to our web master what it would take to modify the rep capability so as to limit the amount a person can get, based on the certain criteria (time as a registered member, number of posts, ect.)

I'm sorry that you got so many negative reps from that post about "freshman" - my advice is to try and make sure that what you post won't be taken as objectionable by others, and to keep using this website as a tool to improve your overall FIRST experience (it really can be a valuable resource if used properly).

Mike Aubry
Engineering Mentor Team 47

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I've been on these forums since the second day they were live and used the old forums before that. I have not once posted a watered-down version of anything and I certainly don't go out of my way to placate people. If you take the time to construct intelligent, thoughtful arguments, there is nothing to 'flame', simply put.

Is ChiefDelphi too sensitive? We largely close threads that have no demonstrated useful purpose and did that here. In response, the original poster says that we need to toughen up and deal with things better? I think a quick glance into a mirror may be appropriate.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

NOTE: I didn't write this to make people angry, so please don't read it as though I did, I just wrote it to Try and show my opinion on some touchy matters




Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Krass
I've been on these forums since the second day they were live and used the old forums before that. I have not once posted a watered-down version of anything and I certainly don't go out of my way to placate people. If you take the time to construct intelligent, thoughtful arguments, there is nothing to 'flame', simply put.

Is ChiefDelphi too sensitive? We largely close threads that have no demonstrated useful purpose and did that here. In response, the original poster says that we need to toughen up and deal with things better? I think a quick glance into a mirror may be appropriate.






I have ... numerous times :yikes:. Those of you who haven't had to do that haven't because you have been here since the beginning, People see eleven bars of positive rep and say to themselves "Wow, they are a tank, what can my 6 negative rep points do?". So you guys pretty much have nothing to fear on this forum.

I assure you that Doug (pyro) was not trying to aggravate anybody with that post, and he was in fact just trying to make friends in an unfamiliar place by posting a thread about a subject that he thought he would have similar opinions on as a lot of other people. This much is obvious... and If Someone cannot see this, then they are in fact "thin skinned".

Or maybe they just want to reprimand someone on the forum so that they can get good rep points for doing it... either way... It is something that should be changed, because I don't care what anybody says... everything is political, even if it is rooted in GP.

In real life... There is no Negative rep, you can't close a person's Ideas like you can a thread, and you DO have to learn to live with Ideals that may be different than your own. That's what a lot of us (me included) on chiefdelphi have to learn to deal with, whether we like it or not.


:rolleyes: And once more... If you have a problem with this post, please take it up with my inbox and NOT my rep box.


I thought about this quite a bit... And it is at least 50% intelligent

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I beg to differ. There are red and green dots in the world--but the stakes are far higher.

I live in Preston College here at USC. I do a lot of things, from being a member of the Selection Committee to running the web site. All of these things lead to a positive reputation amongst the folks who run the show, which has come in handy when I need something like a job reference. That reputation has paid off for me, as it's led to being able to launch other things in the building.

Now, suppose I go two doors down, bang on the Principal's door, and start cussing him out. Not only will I immediately be unable to do anything of value for the building, but I'm willing to bet that I'll also find myself in the falling-apart Towers as one of the final residents before they get torn down in the summer.

Similarly, suppose that I'm applying for the job at Apple. While in the interview, I start ranting and raving about how the iPod is going downhill and PlaysForSure is going to own everyone and that Steve Jobs needs to quit with the turtlenecks already. (Those aren't my real opinions.) Not only am I going to lose any chance of getting the job (and thus that source of income), but the word also gets around that I have this attitude. Next thing I know, it's a whole lot harder for me to get a job in the town.

Moral of the story? Think before you start saying things. This very post went through two or three revisions to make the points clearer--and if you apply it to anything you say or do, you'll be better for it.*

*Of course, there comes a point where you have to shoot the linguist and say the darn thing. ;)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I just think it's kind of funny how that happened; he managed to offend the group of people who have the least experience with the reputation system, and are therefore most likely to give negative reputation.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

When Two people have a dissagreement, does a red dot appear over one of their heads that lets every single person that sees them know that "He is a bad person because he has a red dot above his head, no. "reputation in real life is between two people... also, You didn't comment on the thread closing that I mentioned, yet you still told me to think about what I post... I just want to let you know that it took me at least 6 diffeerent revisions of that post to get one that was fit for this forum.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Not necessarily. The op/ed section of a newspaper is quite useful for this function. If a writer goes out and publically criticizes a person, the person's reputation and credibility can be seriously harmed as a result.

Also, Billfred was talking about red and green dots figuratively, not literally.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Sorry to rain on your parade but reputation is not between two people. I have worked for 31 years in a company where your reputation arrives well before you do. It doesn't take long to lose a good reputation but it takes years to get it back. I have learned that hard way that there are ways to speak your mind and still have a good reputation. It is a skill that your must learn and the sooner the better if you plan on succeeding in the business world.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I've been posting on CD frequently now for about a year, and I've noticed a few things about it. The major thing though is timing, you posted a touchy thread right in the middle of build season. And in build season, everyone has a short temper, why? We have 6 weeks to go from start to finish, its a very high pressure situation for all of us.

That was probably the main reason why as many people gave you Negative rep as they did, but hey lets go review how exactly reputation works
I hope that explains it some more, the rep system is full of Grey area, my best advise is most definetly, THINK BEFORE YOU POST, my second best is, does this offend anyone? and my third would be Does this post benefit from discussion?

Of course you can always review the stickies (*gasp*!) what a concept

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Nobody in real life paints a number on me that everyone else everywhere can see... a number that will cause pre-concieved Ideas about me. i.e.) You don't know whether or not I am the most popular kid in my school.
( I was talking about figurative dots too)

AND...

If you are in a professional environment, of course you have a reputation, but we are in a peer environment, Not many people choose whether or not they are going to hire anybody based on chiefdelphi.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I've experienced this phenomenon of disproportionate effort required to gain or lose reputation just by being on a robot team. After I do something stupid it takes a long time for people to stop hassling me about it. But when I finish the electronics board and the operator interface on schedule, my respect level doesn't really increase that much.

... It just makes me want to sing an Aretha Franklin song...

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I would like to propose an alternative to jumping on the Negative Rep button. While it can be useful, it often has the effect of getting the person more mad and bitter (and often quite defensive), rather than actually solving the problem. The solution: Follow Arefin Bari's method.
In the game hint discussion this year, I made a post that was quite harsh on one of the senior members of the forum. Instead of giving me negative reps, Arefin sent me an IM (PM's will work too) and calmly asked that I remove the post. I did. Problem solved, no feelings hurt, and no reps lost. I felt that it got the message across much better than negative reps would have.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

You in right... ...In real life, you paint the number on your OWN forehead.

How you dress, how you look, what expression you have on your face, your body language, etc.

You may not see the number but it is there.

People make unfair, unscientific, snap evaluations of other people all the time. It is the norm, not the exception.

Think about it.

Joe J.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

My two contributions to this thread:

1) If you think you are getting rep points unfairly, send me a PM¹ rather than PM'ing the rep givers with vulgarity, threats, and other messages that aren't helping your situation. If you're getting unfairly attacked, we can do something positive and productive about it .. rather than sending inappropriate messages to those who have given the negative rep.

2) They're just dots. You can get them back.



¹include a link to the post, please.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

[quote=Cody C]Nobody in real life paints a number on me that everyone else everywhere can see... [\QUOTE]

Untrue...While it may not be a number, you give yourself a reputation (For better or for worse). In your actions, your words, and your mannerisms you are being judged by your peers, always.

In business, that reputation will make or break you...It will get you that great promotion or hold it back.

Here in CD, we can only see the words you have typed. And that is all we have to go on. Until your reputation exceeds those little red / green dots you will be percieved by them, and the posts you make. Choosing those words wisely is sometimes an artform.

Disagreeing with someone is fine as long as you do not degrade or attack the poster. Reread your post and ask yourself -- are you discussing the message or the poster. If it is the poster you should probably re do your post.

Anyways, this is just my opinion on the subject.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Well let's see, I'm going to share my view of what reputation is...

Reputation is how you present yourself to the world. If you act nice and are generally kind to others, you will have a good reputation, and people will look highly of you because of that. If you constantly bad mouth others and look down upon your peers, you will get a bad reputation, and people will be reluctant to work or associate with you.

As many people have said, it takes quite a bit of hard work to gain a good reputation, but only one mistake to give you a bad one. People are quick to judge, and just one slip, especially when people don't know you, can ruin people's perception of you. And while people may not think highly of you for a single comment, it is not the end of the world. Go out there, make yourself known, show that it was just a mistake and you truly are a good person. While one mistake can affect you for the near future, having a long running positive attitude towards yourself and others shows people your true nature for the long run.

Word about someone's reputation does get around, even if it was only a confrontation between two people. The bad does seem to spread faster then then good, but that is why someone should be as professional and courteous as possible to everyone that they meet. While you may not physically have a dot over your head that says whether you are a good or bad person, from what people hear about you, they will judge you for. By being a generally good person overall, you shouldn't have to worry about how people judge you, even if you do make one or two mistakes here and there.

As long as you continually show yourself to be a good person, whether it be on these forums or in real life, its ok to screw up once in a while. Just show the world who you really are and your reputation will reflect that.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

For shortness, I just quoted the one paragraph.

I was going to say something long, but then this durn guy above me meant and stole all of my ideas.

I too think reputation is fairly silly. For one thing, if you were truly interested, it's possible to give yourself as much rep as you want.

Recently, one of my teammates got bad rep for having his signature be 10 pixels too many. I agree with what Flex said. While pyro's thoughts were not well-considered, there was no particularly objectionable part.

To answer the question: yes, I think CD users are highly over-sensitive.

Paul Dennis

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

And the winner of the second Occasional Grammar Curmudgeon Gold Star award for commendable use of the subjunctive mood is... (drum roll, please...)Congratulations, Ira!



My apologies to anyone whose subjunctivity I may have have overlooked. PM me if you would like to make a nomination. ;)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I would encourage everyone here to go and read the thread. While it is true that we frown upon rude or offensive behaviour and we definitely /should/ frown upon it, this statement implies something that is not exactly true. I agree with you that rookie teams are not looked down upon.
upon upon upon.

Paul Dennis

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I agree totally with what you've said. It's factually true. However, a couple quick points before my mentor picks me up by the scruff of my neck and dumps me in the snow:

1. If someone gets a bad rep, they can start a new account.

2. If someone has good rep, you are much less likely to give them bad rep and much more likely to give them good rep, simply based on the fact that they currently have a high rep. This is simply a fact.

Gotta run, seen some great thoughts here. Keep thinkin the good think!

Paul Dennis

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Wired magazine has just published an article titled that I think applies to much of this discussion: The Secret Cause of Flame Wars

I highly recommend the article. I think that some of our problem is just that folks really cannot communicate ideas and intent through text message.

Think about it when you write a message. Complex emotions & feelings are likely to be misunderstood by a significant fraction of your readers...

...For what it is worth.

Joe J.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Although the reputation system may be flawed, it does have a set task - and that is to show which members of these forums have posted a lot of positive posts which contributed a lot to the the Chief Delphi community. This is a good way to show (more or less) who are the people to ask for help, or who are the people who are "role models" for the rest of the CD community.

I don't know about other people, but I always think twice before I hit the "Submit" button. If I am in a bad mood and the post reflects it, or if the post I am writing is not coming out clearly, or if the post I am writing doesn't contribute anything to the thread, I am more willing to forget it, close the tab, and move on. Having quality posts is much better than having quantity posts. ;)

Giving someone bad reputation points for having a signature that is 10 pixels too long may be a bit too extreme. Sending the user a PM, IM, or email is a much better choice than giving them bad reputation.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Reptation does not matter to me. Mine has been all over.

At times, some things are blown out of porportions. Some are not. The thing is that some posts (and if I step on toes, it's the truth) people are tired and stressed and posts. (Been there in a bad way.)

Simple answer to the thread's question: People can be overly sensitive and overreact at times but who does not. CD is no different.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Ultimately asking "Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?" is akin to "does the sky have clouds". The answer to both is yes. I think we are all a bit over sensitive to a topic and even the way something is said. This is invariably a part of human existence, we tend to to be a little of everything (sometimes all at once). Sometimes we can be very sensitive to a subject and other times we really couldn't give it a second thought if we tried. That in itself doesn't matter, what matters is how we react to it.

Of coarse we should look at our posts and construct them to be intelligent, well thought out, pearls of brilliance. Do we try to do this? Yes. Do we always manage? Of coarse not. And even when we do make such pearls should we also sanitize them of feeling that went into their making? I've seen many references to the responsibilities of the writer, but what of us the reader? If a statement clashes with our ego is it devoid of merit? I think responsibility also lies in the reader who finds themselves bothered enough to stand up and do something to first look at whether or not they themselves are possibly, as hard as it is to admit, being a little thin skinned.

Now onward to the reputation system. Many people mention various unjustified neg reps that they have been the victim to. They happen. However, I submit this to you. What about positive reps? How many of you have positive reputation points that truly say nothing about your character but because you made a good joke or some other useless bit. How many of you are victims of positive reps? It all adds up in the end and a person's reputation will show through. My only grievance with the use of the rep system is it really doesn't give a person a chance to talk. If someone posts something you thoroughly enjoy drop them a mail, you might make a new friend. If they post something you don't like drop them a mail too, you might find it a misunderstanding. Plus some of the people I enjoy talking to the most are people I also find myself at odds with. That doesn't excuse a person from rudeness but it does mean taking a deeper look at something we don't always agree with.

Many people on the Internet are infected with the God syndrome. We assume something is right or wrong, this way or that and apply it to what we read on the Internet. ChiefDelphi is, if nothing else, a community. Communities are made of people and those people bring their opinions and personalities to hopefully contribute to the group, this at least the goal we should shoot for.

I'm sorry if this is a little long and rambling but I had a urge to write down some feelings. If you read it all I very much appreciate you taking your time to listen. Finally in answer to the question that spawned this whole debate. No I don't think Ive ever seen any team look down on a rookie team and I hope I never do. Even experienced teams are made of rookie FIRSTers. :)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

That's definately me.
My rep got fat on the first season of Fantasy FIRST and it's fanatical followers who were so happy to have the game they dumped good rep (and a couple of bad reps by mistake) to any post I made based on Fantasy FIRST for a week. :o

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I only had two off point rep point changers. One was for a cool signature, they said, it added. The other was because someone jumped to conclusions, putting words in my mouth, taking points away. I'd much rather earn my points, that way, it makes me feel better, I'd also much, much rather actually earn the negatives as well, then I actually know when I do something wrong. But some people don't really need to add or take away points for small things, and for when they jump to things, just send them a mail or PM, letting them know how you feel about what they said, or just to talk about it. But please, for the sake of all that is good, no more putting words in peoples mouths to take away points, if you're going to do that, just mail them.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

my first experience on Chief wasn't very encouraging at all because I posted something and I got 3 neg. rep things simply because I had accidently brought up a thread that hadn't been talked on in a while.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Ok... Let me word this differently, for those of you who quoted me.


In REAL life, You make snap decisions... but those snap decisions are based on what YOU think... Not what hundreds of people before you thought and made known. I give myself reputation based on how I act towards one person. My facial expression and body language are part of it, but right now you have absolutely no idea what I look like. All you have to go by are my words... and what the people before you thought. Without my body language to referance, you could easily not be reading what I meant to write, and start reading what you feel I meant... largely based on my reputation. In my case, that is not an entirely bad thing, but in doug's case, everybody saw one green box and assumed, "hey, he's new, I'd better show him (with negative rep) that he shouldn't post things like this."

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

My opinion on this is .. you should give a neutral rep, PM, e-mail or instant message giving some kind of pointer/tip/explanation. Only after that, and some kind of reply, would it be ok (to me, at least) to dish out some negative rep. the next time it happens. I'd hope everybody would follow this, but it's not that important to make enforceable just yet ..

.. and they're just dots. ;)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/im...tation_pos.gif

gifs actually.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Well, I've waited while I thought about this thread and the posts it addresses and I am ready to respond. Are CD posters "thin skinned"? The answer is a most resounding "NO". Are they passionate, yes, are they excited/excitable, most definitely, are they caring and protective, without a doubt. Are they professional and gracious, of course, it is our law, our credo, our guiding light. When you ask a question similar to the original post, you strike at the fiber of each of these emotions and principles. You will see that you need to expect the response to be passionate, excited, protective and I would hope gracious and professional. You are dealing with an imperfect group though, sometimes we are more passionate than professional, or more protective than gracious. It does not make us bad, it just reveals the imperfections.
As to bad rep points, I have not found a reason to give one yet. No one who has ever posted here with sincerity, has ever posted anything that so flies in the face of our ideals to warrant bad rep. Those that have posted serious and meaningful questions or discussions require the rest of us to think and respond, much like in this post. I hope that you learn from the posts in this thread and read deeper than the words printed here that these people are committed to turning this world into a better place. They believe they can make a difference and I believe they can too. First allows us to function in ways that no place on earth can. We compete but are on the same "team", we come from different backgrounds, religions, or countries, but share in the knowledge we gain for the good of all. We are imperfect but are striving to become the best we can be.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

As a newcomer to CD, I view rep subjectively, and I cross-reference it with longetivity of the user. If I'm looking at opinions or ideas, I ignore the rep - good or bad - because often the best ideas come from those that are not mired in the intricacies of the problem. If I'm looking at technical support or testimonials, however, I'll look more closely at, and value higher, the users with lots of experience and rep.
Which begs the question:
Does reputation and, similarly, CD experience truly make one person smarter, more educated, more experienced, more refined, and more worldly than a (to use the vernacular of today's youth) n00b?
As a user with ~70 posts, minimal experience, and one green dot (or jpeg), I hope not.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

well doug, it could be because FRESHMEN arent all bad, just like rookie teams. after all, everyone's gotta start somewhere. [[pointing out the obvious]] ;)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Same here. I have taken criticism for posts before but I don't believe anyone has disliked somthing i've said so much they gave negative rep points.

As they say it only takes the few to ruin it for the many...

-Q

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I would expect most people here use the reputation system with a fair amount of maturity. I've only been so much a part of this forum, as my postcount shows, so you might need to take that with a grain of salt.

I have seen, however, others using the system quite immaturely. A friend and another user exchanged a few replies, whereupon an academic means my friend proved the other wrong. The other user decided to "get back" by casting some negative reputation in his direction. What makes it worse, is I've seen a fairly prominent member of this forum (and a member, no less) do the same thing.

If I could offer advice concerning rep, think objectively AND subjectively about why you're giving a person rep. Has how a person said something been incredibly disrespectful? Not just deserving a comment about tone, but deserving a permanent mark for them to remember? Can you see yourself making such a statement and thinking you deserve some neg rep hating? Subjectively should be easier, and oddly enough it isn't. Is what they're saying offensive? It might be offensive to you if you're on the losing side of a discussion/debate, but unless it's strictly matter of opinion, SOMEONE is going to be wrong. Don't start throwing around hate just because someone proved you wrong. Take it gracefully, and learn from it, that is why we have discussion and debate...

Past that, remember it's a number most people don't look at. I know I'm going to look at the content of every post before I ever look at their rep bars.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

From my experiences, I have noticed that members tend to use the reputation system instead of the personal messaging system when it comes to differentiating opinions.

This is part of our nature, but as Talps said, I too think that to allow for a forum that supports constructive criticism, negative rep should be used when the user is being offensive in some way or otherwise damaging the forum environment. Issues otherwise should be handled through either the thread where the issue is or the private messaging system.

There will always be disagreements and even more so in a forum that has a high population of engineers and others that are not willing to stand down from their beliefs and accept new ideas. However, I don't believe that the negative rep system should be used to force ideas or retaliate against other people who may or may not have a valid point in their ideas.


As for the private messaging system, I have received only one of these from another member concerning ideas in a thread, but much more often received negative/neutral reps stating disagreements of opinions. The private messaging system does not damage either users (otherwise leading to neg rep wars) and allows for the users to respond to each other and discuss their different opinions.

I personally have never felt the need to negative rep someone for any action because I have yet to be personally attack or disrespected. I've always felt that issues with other members were better dealt with through either the thread or a two way conversation.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

There will always be times in life when you read or see something that will cause our emotions - whether for good or for bad - to temporarily "over-ride" our logical thinking. When you see a thread entitled "help!!!!!!!!!!!!! my controller wont download default code!!!!11! plz help!", don't automatically and irrationally bomb them with negative rep just because they are new to the forum. Instead, send them a PM or neutral rep explaining what they posted wrong. But do so in a polite and business-like manner. Don't flame them.

In the 18 months I've been here, I think I've only given negative rep at most three times.

Disagreements != Negative Rep

If you present your ideas in a clear, meaningful, and mature manner, there is never a reason that you should receive negative rep. If someone goes out and posts that "Pi is equal to exactly three!", they are not automatically wrong. They could be limited to a single significant digit in their calculation, in which case this statement would hold true. So even something that looks wrong at first glance may hold deeper truth.

When I first signed up, I never thought that I would become one of the members with eleven green boxes of positive rep. All I knew was that I never wanted to have negative rep. So all I did, and still do today, is double read every post I make. I usually take anywhere from twenty minutes to two hours to compose a single post for ChiefDelphi. (This one took about 40 minutes.) I will usually write it out, reread through it, change stuff around, clarify this, take out that, and run the Spell Check until all I'm left with is a great post.

A lot of people forget this when posting, but your posts here on ChiefDelphi will more or less be here forever. Do you really want that post you just be made to be on the Internet forever? Once something makes it onto the Internet, its usually there in some way, shape, or form forever, even if the original post is deleted. Search engine caches, the Internet Archive, and the memories of the people who read it prior to being deleted are all traces of your original post. Post wisely. ;)

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

Excellent points. People... please re-read what Art wrote above. The time he takes preparing his posts on this site means many things:

a. He cares about the people reading his post. The things he can do to make it easier and clearer for us to read, the better the post is.
b. Like he says, anything written on here is forever.
c. The only way many of us get to know Art is through his posts. We aren't fortunate enough to be located in the same area, so all many of us see are his posts. This is one of the only way (along with his masterful Vex creations) that we get to know him. Obviously, he wants to make a good impression.
d. He realizes that he is representing his team. While he represents his own opinions, he does so with tact so that his team is not embarassed by his actions.

Thanks, Art, for this note. We all can learn from it.

Andy B.

Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?
 

I never give anyone negative rep.

If something is said that I disagree with, then I'll just reply to that person's post, not give them negative rep for something.

I've gotten negative rep for posting something that is off-topic, as if that completely ruins someone's Chief Delphi surfing experience for that day. Some people take these forums very seriously.

But those people also help this forum greatly. They keep thing in order so we don't get any flame wars or anything of the like.