Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

So our video-game-obsessed driver gave me a really good idea today: hook up a buzzer or something similar to one of the LED-out pins on the OI joystick port, so we can have a "missile lock" tone when the camera locks on to the target. I was pondering the possibility of this. He managed to find some piezo buzzers from radioshack that emit 9800Hz at 80dB with 4-28v and 12mA max.
It seems that the oi led pins could drive that, since they provide 10mA at 5v, but I was wondering how practical it would be, or if there is some other factor (rule?) that I am overlooking. Also, how high-pitched is 9800Hz? I would like it to sound as realistic as possible (think BattleField 2 missile battery).

Any thoughts on the plausibility of this insane idea would be appreciated (just don't steal it)

EDIT: I was wrong about the 9800 hz figure; here are some of the parts I am looking at:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...tPa ge=search

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...tPa ge=search

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

Also of concern: would a piezo buzzer sound really harsh? Is there any way to get a more sine-like wave?

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Here's a link to a Tone Generator for Windows:
http://www.nch.com.au/tonegen/

9800Hz is pretty close to an unbearably high pitch to me. Think about those really high tones in a hearing test. You'll probably want to find a differently tuned buzzer. And remember that it's loud at the competitions and that a buzzer might interfere with your driver hearing his coach or fellow driver.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

an LED clipped on the corner of your safety glasses might be more tolerable.

I think the buzzer you have is going to sound like a smoke-alarm

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

That's actually pretty brilliant. Sort of like those tachometers that flash a light to tell you when you're redlining. I'll have to pitch that idea tomorrow.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

We're using a flashing red LED for that. We're thinking of mounting it onto an antena sticking up off of the control board, that way it is in our driver's line of sight.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

We talked about a lock tone a few weeks ago. We came to the conclusion that it might be too loud at the venue to hear the tone, and it may cause the driver / operator to lose focus straining to hear it.

Not to discourage you. If you do implement it, it'd be nice to see what we passed on.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Here's another idea: Put a headphone jack on there, and the driver can plug an earbud into it, and then it will give him a tone when it's locked on. Of course, this would be trickier, because you'd have to put an oscillator or something on there to generate the tone, since I've never seen such a ready-made device. Maybe we can do some circuit-bending.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Flashing?! wouldnt that look the same as locked, unlocked, locked, unlocked...

how would you know the difference?

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

How about, instead of visual or auditory, the driver gets a more physical cue. E.g. a small electric shock to the base of the spine...

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

studies have shown that postive feedback works better. Driver should get a shock until he obtains target lock, then it stops.

Performance incentive :^)

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

As long as I'm not the one driving, why not. =)

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

hahaha yes! I can also have a knob on the other side of the controller so the second driver can give a shock if driver 1 messes up!

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

What about a cluster of colored LEDs that will shine on the plexi of the drivers station aimed at about eye level?

My team originally thought of the LED clipped to the safety glasses thing but didn't want to have to deal with the quick disconnect for autonomous mode requirements.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

The only problem is for that to work you'd need some pretty bright LEDs, and the 10mA is unlikely to help you there (maybe if you used all 4 led pins). As for the HULED (Heads-Up-LED as i've just now dubbed it) you could take care of it pretty easily by just putting a standard headphone jack on the controller. I like headphone jacks because they're so easy to connect/disconnect, and they're compact. (Just don't plug a pair of headphones into it, they'll be destroyed instantly)

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Time you are connecting your controls in the match is time you aren't driving. Your coach cannot connect it for you.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Yes, but this device would be for the benefit of the secondary driver who controls the shooter, so it's unlikely that he would have any pressing issues to address in the first 2 seconds of competition. Overall, I think this might be the best method of lock-on notification.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Or, if you wanted to use more than 2 LED's (on a stereo headphone jack), an RJ-45 connector just might do the trick. It'll disconnect quickly but it'll also stay put (unless you've broken the tab off of the modular plug :( ).

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

I wanted to stick a lexan game status panel to the lexan of the arena with suction cups so that the driver would have a status panel at "HUD" level. Once again, I was outvoted by conservative teen-agers... Where are the rebels of the 60s and 70s? The kids today just want to drive SUVs and build things that look just like everyone else's. :)

Oh, yes, by the way, our drive team this year consists of a Pilot, a RIO, a Crew Chief, and an Air Boss. Drive the theme...

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

I thought they said we weren't allowed to attach anything to the lexan...

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Well, our students certainly didn't know that...

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Is this legal?

Several years ago, I looked into it and decided that is was not (using an IO LED output to drive something other than an LED).

I have not looked at the rules this year, but I suppose that it is still illegal.

From IFI OI Reference Manual:
and again:

The above rules & reference seem to imply that it would be legal as long as it use power from the Joystick Port and it is not a Portable computing device.

Even it there is some rule that makes it illegal, the work around we came up with (but never implemented) was to connect a PC or a stand alone device to the dashboard port and have the PC or the stand alone device generate the tone.

Thoughts?

Joe J.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

I don't know the ruling last year, but in the past we've been told it's illegal to put things on the driver's station lexan.

Would this sound device on the control board violate the rule at competitions about no noise makers?

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

I like the tone idea.
I wanted to have a light up arcade button that said fire. (Like the big ones on the arcade coin-op basketball games) When it lit, the driver would hit it to fire.

Instead, we bought high intensity LEDs, and mounted them next to the joystick. I hope the drivers will be able to see them.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

If my memory serves me, you are not allowed to use ear buds or headphones in the drivers station. One of the reasons is safety and the other is that there could be communications from the stands or pit area.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

One other low complexity option is to use the code to set one of the lights on the OI to tell you when you have a lock. Unfortunately this is not quite as convenient as a bright light or electric shock, but it is much simpler to set up, as you don't need any extra parts.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Er, why even worry about the OI? Stick a LED (not red, green, or blue) or other light on the robot and control it with a spike that triggers on lock-on conditions.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

One of the things I like about sound is that it takes another data path into the Operators' brains.

They may have all their bandwidth used up on the Visual Databus while the Audio Databus may have some extra bandwidth available.

Joe J.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

We are hooking up a photodetector to "watch" an LED hooked to a port on the OI. When the photodetector senses that the LED is on, a high-gain circuit triggers a relay which delivers the output of a Model T Ford spark coil into the calf muscles of the game operator. This lets him know that the target is in range, and has been acquired. :)

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Yes, you are correct. Even when all other databuses are totally out of bandwith, the PainInTheCalf Bus gets top priority.

Good thinking ;-)

Joe J.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Our OI has a pair of safety glasses with LEDs mounted in the upper perifial and tells the driver if he has to pivot right, left or is locked. I guess we haven't thought about how to put them on at the start of the match. I guess if we win auton and become backbot he should have time. If not the operator will have to do it for him. Do think it would be legal for the driver to change safety glasses at the beginning of operator control?

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

The way we do it is to have the glasses plug in to the OI console. The operator wears the fancy safety glasses full time, but they remain unplugged until the start of teleoperated mode.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Could you have the driver wear one pair of glasses in auton, and then switch to ones that are connected to the OI in user mode?

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

Well I think the rule says you have to wear safety glasses at all times during the match, so unless you could somehow swap them without being sans safety glasses at any point, then that wouldn't fly. It would really be easy enough to just put something like a headphone or rj45 jack on the OI that the driver plugs into.

Re: Has anyone tried a "missile lock" tone?
 

I really like the idea of a piezo buzzer, actually.

I think I may try this out...