Re: Food for thought
 

CJBonez, I understand where you're coming from as I'm also from a team in which students do all of the building of the robot. I wouldn't have it any other way because I take great pride in our robot at the end of each season. It's a great accomplishment to be able to compete against robots that were sent away somewhere to be precision laser welded or something. I know that I'm not going to be in the pit polishing up the robot like some other teams. We're definitely going to be working out some of the kinks during practice. Just take pride in your robot and have fun. I've learned so much by building the robot with my own two hands rather than having the robot built by somebody else.

Re: Food for thought
 

As a student on 1501, i can honestly say our robot is student built. The mentors are there to teach us and show us how to do things safely. As far as our work shop goes take a look at our workshop last year, there are tons of pictures here, oh and here are the basic tools for monocque construction. The only thing that has changed since last year is that we have more space and a mill and a lathe. The mill and the lathe are there for the students to learn how to use. I know many teams that have a lot more than 1501 does.

Re: Food for thought
 

I totally agree, i see a lot of parts that are simply purchased from the store and strapped on, and it underminds the whole .. lets be on the forefront of engineering, that is why we custom made our 2 traction wheels, and custom shooting wheel rather then simply purchasing them. Also we find they save a lot of weight!

Its hard to balance letting a student do it and a mentor doing it, i know, especially since you have to spend so much time teaching the student to do it, but an idea: if they do it horribly wrong/really bad that it has to be redone, by a mentor this time, both tasks get done,, the student gets experience and the final product is good. Thats still better then just the mentor doing it from the start!

Re: Food for thought
 

Personally, I don't care if it's 100% student built or mostly mentor built or a mixture of students or engineers building. If it gets to the competition and works the way it is supposed to and does what it is supposed to, I don't care. If the students get the picture of what engineering is and are Inspired, I don't care. I would prefer a 50-50 mix, but I don't care what your mix is, as long as it does what works for you.

It's been said that "100% student built" is pretty much ignored by the judges. I can believe it, because half the teams out there say that. How about letting the mentors guide you through the engineering process, from the project requirements to delivery of the product? Including helping with the build or doing some building themselves? Wouldn't the robot turn out better that way than if a bunch of students spent 5 weeks struggling with the game, then spent 1 week going with the first design that looked good or was the coolest?

Re: Food for thought
 

7 years of Big MO and this is my 4th year on the team. Every year we concept the robot and make the parts out of wood then we have pars made that have to be precise made, and anything welded we mook up and hold together so it can be sent out to be welded. We in the past have ordered out frame thru 80/20 but for the this year and last year we have used extruded aluminum frame which was welded. 2 years ago we used a 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate (bad idea, but we won a regional). For the past 3 years we have used the same drive train and have only have 1 ort 2 chains break, and we have a total of 5 chains on each side.

When you say building a robot completely by the students i hope he is refering to assembly or parts and final construction. Because almost every robot has to have a precision part and if not something bad might happen.

For instance, in this years game you might want to have a precise motor mount for your shooter if you h a direct drive. If your motor is not secure you might run into shafts breaking and wheels flying.

Most parts on the robot do not needt to be precise but not every team is able to have a robot building spot such as GM or other corporate giant. These teams that do not need to have parts made outside of there shop, these teams might need outside fabrication. And if you think of what FIRST is trying to get us kids tolearn, it truly is just to make us further our knowledge by learning mechanical, electrical, programming skills. They are not saying we have to completely design, fabricate, and build our robot. But understand how things work and new innovative ideas on how to do things. :)

Re: Food for thought
 

we design, build, and erm.... change our own robot. all student work. we do get input from the mentors because well hey, what else are they there for? but its all about the students.

Re: Food for thought
 

1568 is a second year team, and ive been on it for both years, as a driver and a college student now, it is still a student built team, with some adult help, the team is small and everything is done by everyone, there are no sub teams except for programming, being smallm helps us get the job done, the most widely used tool is the drill, and a tablesaw.

Re: Food for thought
 

Last year, Division by Zero worked with ThunderChickens and Dynamos for a large portion of the design. Many of the parts were built by them and then shipped to us, but that was mostly because they had the better facilities. Everything was also assembled and tested by the individual teams. In the end, if you looked at pictures of the robots side by side yes they were simular but they were also very unique.

We were a coalition. A team of teams, working together and exchanging ideas. Personally, I feel that is very much with in the spirit of FIRST. Much more so than if someone sat in their own little corner and said, no we're not talking to anyone. I think its really cool how teams help each other out in the pits, and we then extended it to build season.

There's quite likely someone out here who knows more about the details then I do but figured I'd throw it out there.