Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

Joel J--- "If you win in autonomous, then you most likely have a good shooter, good software, good 1pt dumper, or a decent mixture. That is, if you are making it happen in autonomous, then you have what it takes to make it happen in the rest of the match."

That's it in a nut shell!!




BTW Joel, how's it up there in the North Country of Potsdam? I was the guy who, after the Long Island, correctly picked you guys to win the nats the year of your picture--a month in advance!

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

A few questions if you won autonomous period what was your record?

What was record when you were RED?
Did you win by more than ten points? How many wins?
Did you win by ten points? How many wins?
Or did you win by less than ten points? How many wins?

What was record when you were BLUE?
Did you win by more than ten points? How many wins?
Did you win by ten points? How many wins?
Or did you win by less than ten points? How many wins?

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

Ok I saw team 25's robot at NJ and I must say do offence but it wasnt that spatacular design or that different from anyother robot but for 1 thing.... Autonomous. No other robot except for 375 could shoot like them. Every match in autonomous they got 9/10 or 10/10. Thats 30 points plus 10 to make 40-0 right from the getgo. After that is hard to make a comeback from that. Luckly our robot got 10/10 most of the time but in the low goal.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

I'd have to argue with you about 25's robot. Yes their autonomous made them amazing, but also they were strong fast and even when they were pushed they could still shoot thanks to their auto-aiming camera. If you don't believe me I'm sure there is video somewhere when in the finals they were almost at the wall and still made an inordinate number of shots.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

I am not going to argue 25 looked great, if not amazing.

But, will they be able to live up to the hype against teams from other (possibly more competitive) regionals than NJ?

I guess we will see.

;)

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

Sean,

Could the 10 bonus points for autonomous be too much of an advantage?

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

You may want to say 20, because although the points are equal to 10, if you switch the those points to the other alliance it adds 10 to them AND subtracts 10 from you, which is a 20 point difference.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

I dont see an automatic clincher if your side gets the high score in auton mode.

If you know your bot cant score well in auton mode you can set it to get into field position and score immediately after. Your opponent, if they have fired all their shots off cannot reload and play defense at the same time. In fact, if you have fired nothing into their goals they have nothing to reload their robot with!

You on the other hand, can fire your shots into the goal, retreat to your side, reload and play defense while your opponents are busy getting the balls you just fired to reload their bot.

Nothing is cut & dry about this game.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

I'll be interested to see what these stats reveal. If being on defense for the first period is a big advantage, will they show that when no one won autonomous the randomly picked alliance has the advantage, too?

If the finals in NJ are anything to go by, it would appear that besides the 10 points for winning the period, there is a real advantage to the autonomous winner. The 25/103/1279 alliance scored an average of 96.5 points in their elimination rounds, but in F1 they lost autonomous and just barely won the round 78:71.

Looking over my notes, I believe that the autonomous winning alliance won 11 out of 16 matches in the eliminations.

One of the things which really impressed me about the game play in NJ on Saturday was how teams adapted their autonomous defense to counter teams like 25 and 375. It was interesting to see the defensive robot driving into a blocking position in front of the goal rather than trying to ram their opponent.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

huh?

There isn't an automatic clincher, from the looks of it, but it is almost clear that recovering from an autonomous loss is not easy.

The stats will probably confirm that defense first is advantageous (from those matches when the score was 0-0 after autonomous). We shall see.

The human players have ten additional balls to play with, if they load the other 30 into each robot.

If the robots fired ALL there balls into the goals to win autonomous, then that's 100 points.. which is a HUGE defecit for the loser to overcome. If the winner of autonomous missed some, then they are on the floor waiting to be picked up.

If the winner of autonomous is playing defense against the losers, and the losers save their balls, and don't score, because they don't have a good shot, then the winner has zero reason to go and load up. If the winner of auton plays defense and the losers fire (and misses because of defense) all their balls, then they HAVE to go and reload, otherwise they have nothing to score. When they are on their side reloading, the autonomous winner is doing the same.

Ok, ok.. I'll stop and wait for the stats as well, but I see a correlation.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

Hi, yes I remember you. Potsdam is awesome.. lovely weather :).

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

If an alliance can fire 30 balls into the center goal in the ten seconds of auton mode, and your side cannot score well in auton mode, then yes, the game is pretty much over

but thats the extreem - Im referring to more evenly matched games, where both sides have a chance of winning.

If your bot cannot fire into the goals reliably in auton mode then you might be better off not firing at all. In fact if you are sure your side will loose auton mode you might be better off if none of your bots fire.

Because:

1. your bots can get into scoring position during auton, knowing you will be on the offense

2. if your opponents fired 30 balls they only have ten left in their corrals, so they cannot reload all three robots, Plus they have to keep a backbot on the opposite side, so they only have two bots on their side at a time to play defense AND to be reloaded

3. Your team has 30 balls in their robots, and 40 seconds to score (instead of just 10), so you have a better chance of making your shots count. As each one fires off its shots it can go back to your side to be reloaded AND to get ready to play defense.

the point is, if your bots cannot shoot well in auton mode you might be better off using that time to get field position for your 40 S of offensive play, and you could very well come out better in the end.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

Don't know what caused it but it happened at Trenton too. There was one match in which McKee's alliance was able to recover from losing autonomous.

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

Maybe you missed the point of what I was saying?

Re: A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"
 

I have created sheets so that anyone attending a Regional can help collect data. Simply watch the match, and write down the information the sheet asks for. Don't feel obligated to do every single match. If you are only able to do a handful, it is better than nothing. I just ask that you don't record practice matches, since they are often played very differently than real matches.

Here is a nice printable version of the sheet. There are twenty rows per sheet, so you will probably need about 4 or 5 to completely cover a regional. If you really want a .xls version, PM me and I'll send it to you.

Once you have filled out a sheet either scan it, take a digital photo of it, or type it back into a spreadsheet. Then e-mail it to: aim.high.autonomous [at] gmail [dot] com. I'll take everyone's data, compile it, make it available, and then run some statistics on it.

It should be interesting to see what we find out!