3.2.3 Center Goal
 

To all those who made the NASA/VCU Regional go so smoothly--considering all of the difficulties associated with hosting a first-week regional-- Thank You.

Now, on to business.

Does this sound familiar?
"SHOOT SCORE...SHOOT SCORE...SHOOT SCORE, oops, ummm...SHOOT SCORE"

Rule 3.2.3 of the Revised Competition Manual states:

The Center Goal is located above each Alliance Station. The center six-foot section of each Alliance Station Wall extends to approximately 10-1/2 feet above the floor. A 30-inch diameter opening is located in the extended portion of the wall, centered at 8 feet, 6 inches above the floor. The opening is outlined by a 4-inch wide border of red or blue acrylic. The opening is backed by a rope mesh and suspended chains to absorb the impact of any scoring objects going through the opening. Scoring objects passing through the opening will be deflected downward by the mesh, and will exit the Center Goal by dropping into a collection tube at the bottom of the goal. There, they can be retrieved by the Human Players.

As you can see, I have highlighted, italicized, and underlined at my discretion. Why? Because I watched many a "scoring object" bounce right back out of the center goal at VCU.

Were any matches swayed one way or another due to "bounce-back"? I can't say; however, I can say that I witnessed, on multiple occassions, two out of five balls shot into the center goal bounce back out, never to be counted among the lucky poof-balls who so willingly gave their lives to the AIM HIGH cause.


Now I have questions for you:

1) Have you witnessed bounce-back at your regional?

2) If so, have you seen any attempts made by FIRST to reduce the pervasiveness of bounce-back?

3) If you have not witnessed bounce-back at your regional, what does the netting situation behind the center goal look like? (i.e. what has changed?)

4) Do you find the occurrence of bounce-back ______________?
A) Acceptable
B) Unacceptable


Have a good day.

-Andrew

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

1) Yes. It seems to be worse when shooting straight on.

2) No.

3) Nothing has changed.

4) A. This is definitely part of the challenge FIRST has given us. If they saw an issue with bounce-back, they would change the situation. FIRST loves to see us franticly coming up with ideas; it's exciting for me to watch the people in the next pit going "It wasn't like this in the shop!" So, I don't see any problem with bounce-back; it's just part of the game.

Cheers,
JBotAlan

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

You know, i had a feeling that something like this would happen. like i guessed at VCU they would only use solid neon bright green poof balls to throw off the camras, or something like that, to pose a task for teams AT the regionals on the spot. guess i was right.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

From what I could tell from the Wildstang invitational, this is only an issue for teams that put a lot of backspin (or forward-spin) on their balls.

We shoot without much spin at all (more like a rifle bullet :) ) and haven't seen this issue (yet!).

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

as far as i remember from VCU, ther were counting those balls and points. I mean if the ball goes inside the goald and bounces back, it counted in as 3 points. Thats why me and my team was ok with this situation.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

That's quite interesting if they did count them as scored, because I believe somewhere (rules or Q/A) it explicitly says, balls that bounce out do not count.
Was this actually happening?

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

Not really...FIRST told us about the chains from day one. They were a design constraint that had to be thought about when you made your robot.

It's not like they suddenly sprung the chains out of nowhere in week 1 just to screw with our heads.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

Right, the things sprung at us as regionals were:
1) The interrupt bug (OK, while not at regionals, after ship nonetheless :ahh: )
2) The 8.2V bug
:)

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

I always thought that the balls had to fall down the chute in order for them to count...since that's where the sensor is.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

Thats what I thought also. I was watching the Arizona Regional on NASA TV(Before the feed got all screwed up and I couldn't watch anymore, but thats another story) and in one of the matches, the balls got stuck in the center goal during autonomas and they had to knock them down so they would be counted. They have to go through the chute to be counted.

Josh
Team Driver/Designer

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

I noticed in some videos that there was a person standing behind the teams with a long stick to unjam balls.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

IFI did a very good job working around these difficulties. I know it wasn't discovered until Week One, but at UTC they explained the bug in very clear language and provided all teams with a sheet with instructions on how to modify the compiler behavior to avoid the issue. Maybe someone who has one of the sheets could post it on CD so anyone interested could find out about it?

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

i think bounce back is part of the game. if you read carefully it was actually kinda in the hint the "pasta" could have been the pool noddles or the chains in the goal.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

1) Yep, mostly by 1276 cause they got up onto the ramp and shot from there so quite a few bounced out.

2) No

3) Same as always

4) Acceptable. Every team agreed with the rules and they should have no reason to complain about the bounceback. It's a part of the game and if the match is lost due to bounceback situations, then you had better fix it if you care enough.

Re: 3.2.3 Center Goal
 

Very few robots had problems with bounce back at AZ from what I saw. We had one ball bounce it (in autonomous), and that was because it hit very low in the goal and hit lexan only, no chains. For all the matches I saw, any problems with bounce back occurred when teams fired rapidly into the goal (many balls piling up and spilling out, or the chains swaying alot from all the shots and tossing balls back out).