UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

It was an honor to have been aligned with Gael Force. We set out to build an elegant Robot but I think we were out done by Gael Force. I think either of our teams could have built a Robot that smashed Robots but we choose to build Robots that well engineered and did not go out and destroy other robots. Your team was awesome in the stands, the pit and on the field. See you in Atlanta.

Original Team 20 Rocketeers

JBARRA

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

So your saying that in a football, soccer, or basketball game there should be no defensive players and all offensive?

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

It is disappointing to me that you are likely implying that my old team 177, and their alliance were intentionally designed and built to ram and destroy. If this is what you truly think, you put to waste the 6 hard weeks they spent at the same time you did, to develop a sturdy machine that accomplished the game's goals how they felt the game would be played.

It is safe to say that every team out there put their all into accomplishing this game. 177 has for years been revamping their drive train to the point where if you ask around, it is something we're known for. This year, we put a ball collector and 3-point shooter on top of that to what I would like to believe are stunning results. Our students are taught from the start about building rigid designs because many years in the past we had a similar learning experience to what you guys have had when we took a brutal hit and spent our short times out just trying to fix a gear or piece that took hours in the shop to put together. I clearly hope that you learn from this in the future as we have and potentially incorporate it into your design rather than downplay the significance of other team designs.

It is immature to not have expected robot on robot interaction to be at its peak this year. From the very beginning, FIRST has pointed out they wanted to add a more sporty feel to the games and they have been slowly year after year. This year they even went so far as to say robots were going to be hitting robots, and that it was highly recommendable that you build bumpers. The rules even specify, "AIM HIGH is a highly interactive game," and "If two ROBOTs choose not to use bumpers, and they contact such that simultaneous contact occurs both in and out of the BUMPER ZONE, then this contact is considered within the BUMPER ZONE." As far as I recall, in previous years, this much freedom and encouragement to develop and use bumpers was not seen.

That's not to say that your teams did not develop stunning robots. To say the least they were fantastic in design and build. But a lack of bumpers clearly brought your frame to the test. Rather than having any robot to robot blows dissipated through a bumper and then through a larger piece of your frame, a blow without a bumper would clearly pressurize parts of a frame and as sturdy as metal is... look at cars that take hits from the side.

Overall, I would like to assume that you take FIRST as a learning experience and a worldly design class rather than a disappointment. Not everything is beauty, not everything is strength. Every robot must clearly find the right middle line where human interaction with that bot ultimately achieves the game's design. Which leads me to add human drivers not being behind the wheel of the robot, instead being a ways away must be able to dance with their robot and assume it will take the brunt of the weight they can inflict upon it. Therefore, it must take the brunt of pressure inflicted.

It was an honor to see my old team play against you, and you guys put up a great opposition that kept me on the edge of my seat for the entire length of the matches. It was great to see you play in your QP matches and I knew from the start you guys would be going far in eliminations. Best of luck in the future with all your endeavors and competitions.

Sorry for the lengthy post, sadly, I've noticed that many teams are starting to take the same assumption about FIRST. Hopefully, it covers all the bases on this arguement.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

Guys,

Let's not get into an offense vs. defense arguement here. Both teams 20 and 126 have very strong offensive robots, and were unfortunately the main targets for some very defensive robots at the UTC regional.

I'd like to think that the game design committee designs the games to be offensive minded, and to limit the amount of effective defense. For example, the 2005 game could be played with both an offensive and defensive robot. But, when you watch the national finals, there were 6 highly offensive robots out there, and you got a chance to see how the game was truely designed to be played.

I think we'll find the same thing with this years' game. During the regionals it'll be a great mix of offensive and defensive robots, and it'll be a crap-shot to see who comes out on top. But, by the time the national championship rolls around, I believe it'll be 6 of the best offensive robots out there. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.

Our offensive-minded robot took a great deal of beating, even with the FIRST designed bumpers. Bent frame tubes, bent support pieces, broken ball impellers... It's a rough game out there, and it's unfortunate that a non-ball scoring robot with a powerful drive train can win over some of the best shooters out there. (Please don't feel that I'm describing some specific robots. This is just a general observation...) Let's just see how this game matures over the next few weeks.

BEN

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

Thoughts on my first experience as a mentor.. team 1493- Albany High School, Albany, New York

Hartford Regional

First of it was amazing to see all of the effort that went into every teams bots, pits, decor, the whole experience was amazing and has really motivated me to make our team even better next year.



Our team 1493 did the best we have ever done, so that was a nice accomplishment. We didn't meet our goal which was to be selected for the "tourney" (what ever it is called slips my mind this second) Thought that we most certainly were going to be selected. After making many changes to our bot by the last day we were very strong. Our defense was very good, with our low COG we were able to push almost any bot back, we could make it up the ramp with ease, and were good for an easy 10 pts in autonomous whenever we wanted. (Except the time they forgot to close the side doors all the way which caused us to get stuck.)

One thing that hurt us bad was our bad luck at drawing teammates for the qualifying rounds. One match we were the only bot on the field.

All in all I have to say that this was a great experience and some good publicity for our high school which is much needed.This year we have been on the news every night this year for violence, gang activities, guns in school, you name it. I'm sure team 20 can back this one up.

Once again thank everyone and good luck in nationals

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

i do believe that this game is very interactive. defense is a key part, but i don't think tipping robots over is what FIRST intended as "highly interactive". your own team member said in a thread titled "amazing robot plays" that

i don't think that is something to be too proud of. We do not have bumpers on our robot, and your excessive ramming did not damage our drive frame. bumpers are beside the point. Team 177's defense obviously won them the regional, but i don't think flipping a robot/robots using the ramp them jamming them against the wall when they are down are considered highly interactive, gracious, or professional.

team 177 did build a robust drive train which proved to be powerful. their shooting wasn't that bad and they did beat us. we won the first match. during the second a motor controlling our rollers died, and we could not fix it in time for the third match so we ended up losing both the 2nd and 3rd match. we know now to protect our motors better and our machine will be all set to do just as good in Boston as we did in UTC.
hope to see you at nationals 177 ;)

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

From my observations at regionals, the best alliances are the ones with three good, versatile shooters.
For instance the three robots that won UTC had strong drive trains and could each shoot a few balls.
The benefit of three shooters is in their offensive period. If all three robots can shoot, you can't defend all three. Block two of them and the third one shoots a few. Go block the third one and the one you left starts shooting.
All three of the shooters also had strong, effective drive trains. They weren't easily pushed out of the way, and could be very effective blocking.
The same thing happened at BAE. Three good shooters, with strong drivetrains.

It's not that robot are built to specifically play defense, it's that the robots are versatile. I mean, there is a 40 second period where your alliance has to play defense, so you might as well play it well. That's exactly what these robots did, and did well.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

That's very true. I've been noticing that a lot of teams are talking about how much defense is being played this year in comparison to years before and sometimes even complaining about it by flaming a strong defensive team. Ogre is very true, there is a 40 second period where the defensive robots get to show their stuff. We should recognize them for their abilities to stop the best shooter, rather than flame them for being destructive or for how they "smashed Robots".
Our robot is very versatile and can play offense by dumping balls into the corner goals, and then go onto Defense and try to prevent the other alliance from scoring. This is as legal of a strategy as any other strategy and had led us to wins during the qualifying matches and ranked pretty high at BAE.
I'm not trying to say that this game is all about defense, because offense is what scores all the points, but defense is also an important part of the game. This year is a pretty hard hitting game. FIRST hinted at it by recommending bumpers and even showing how to build them in the manual this year.

That's just my 2 cents.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

Devin,
That was inappropriately posted by one of our students who thought thatit was exciting to see. I didn't see how the first robot went over from where i was standing behind the driver's station, but 20 and our robot went over when we were pushing each other to keep keep them on our ramp. It looked like the angle on the ramp with how we connected rolled us both backward. It's hard to say that was intentional.

To everyone,
I would also like to point out that even though we are getting bashed on playing defense because we prevented 20 and 126 from scoring it appears that only Ogre and some members of 358 noticed that we scored a lot of points in Semi-final 1 here are the scores posted on FIRST's website http://www2.usfirst.org/2006comp/Eve.../matches.html:

Semifinal 1-1
126-20-571 Score 67
177-176-1124 Score 65

Semifinal 1-2
126-20-571 Score 23
177-176-1124 Score 78

Semifinal 1-1
126-20-571 Score 32
177-176-1124 Score 89

It strikes me that these scores are reflective of a very offensive capable alliance that was more balanced. Our teams could quickly cross the field and score because they were designed to shoot in a way that was difficult to block. Focusing on just the defense does not tell the whole story.

With the exception of one individual from one of the teams of the 126-20-571 alliance who really offended my team we hold no ill will to your teams. We were very impressed by the slick and impressive design of 20 and their impressive shooter, as well as 126's super fast and accurate shooter. 571 has always been a gracious team that we enjoy seeing at many events.

I had to respond as I feel this thread and others are misrepresenting what happened because only half of the story was being told.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

Quick reply : tipping robots over is not a valid defensive strategies, and nor is it something to be proud of : during GLR, some penalties were given for intentionally tipping over an opponent, and many thought 5 points penalty wasn't enough.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

I just want to make an observation involving the situation and the Bobcat defense. Teams must understand that this game was designed for exactly the heavy defense that everyone was viewing yesterday. If the ramming was "excessive", the referees would have called a penalty...and they did on a couple of occasions yesterday. This game involves an incline...this incline is in a very important part of the playingfield. Furthermore, having a robot on top of the ramp gives you a bonus whether it is your robot OR your opponents robot. Strategically, if you can push your opponent up the ramp, hold them there until the end of the round, and get the 5 points from that, and take away the 5 they would have got from being on their own ramp...that is a MAJOR strategic swing. This is the exact strategy the Bobcats incorperated yesterday against the 126, 20, and 571 alliance. Due to the fact that the Bobcats had a strong drivetrain, they were able to push 20 up the ramp and the incline essentially knocked them right over. This is the risk you take by approaching a defensive maneuver in front of the ramp instead of comming in from the side of the robot to push them away from the ramp. In a game where you have .5 seconds to get an opening and try to shoot balls...you have to find a way to defend yourself from defenders...177, 176, and 1124 were good at doing that, and thats just how the ball drops.

You can't have things both ways folks...either we have a game like 2001 where we are all running around as a happy little family with no interactive defense, or we suck it up and play this game full tilt...heavy defense and all. I dont know about you, but I dont want to see another 4 v 0...I'll take those heavy crashes any day.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

i do congratulate your team and alliance for a very good strategic win. I also hold no ill will to you or your alliance. we can only learn from our own mistakes and make our robot more competitive and stronger for such defensive strategies, as we will be a target for defensive robots. I should thank you for showing us what we really need to work on as it was our first comp. of the season. and i apologize for any remarks that may have offended your team/alliance.

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

We love the CyberKnights

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

Team Albany, Great Job. We want to work with you next year. One thing is we want Albany to have an animation submitted. Our animation was better this year. We set goals to improve it every year. It is amazing with all the problems your school has faced that you even fielded a Robot.
Great Robot!

Re: UTC Regionals Team 126 GaelForce
 

Oh, haha, I wasn't aware of this. May I ask why?