Mini Darpa Challenge
 

This mostly applies for people in the NYC area, but I'm sure it will give others ideas. In the recent upswing of people who own VEX kits, and after PBS's NOVA show on the Grand Challenge I had an idea. It would be really fun to have a mini darpa challenge with vex/miniature robots. In NY, probably in Riverside or Central Park or something, but I'm sure it could happen around the country. No standarized courses, different for each one. I'd be willing to host the one in NY, although I'd want to enter. The course would be setup on that day with rails on either side so you don't need to rely on gps. It would be much much much smaller, and there would be height and weight restrictions, although they would be loose. However, I need to know how many people would be interested in doing osmething like this, so if you are in the NY area, please respond to this with questions, concerns, or just sure that would be great where do i sign up? For there to a be a prize there wouuld have to be an entrance fee, something like 5 dollars, and winner takes all, or we can donate it to FIRST, or something of that sort. ANyway, please post. I'll come out with some rules later, if enough people want to do it.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

I'd love to be apart of it, but we don't Vex and getting my team to do Off Season Robotics is almost near impossible.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

It wouldn't have to be VEX parts, I just suggested that because they are a) on sale, I think still, b) easy to get c) easy to work with, and d) come with things that would make this slightly easier. So as long as it didn't break the weight, height, width, length, requirement, and I'd probably put a price tag on it as well, as well as number of sensors, (although they would all be LOOSE requirements, sI'm thinking like 3 by 3 by 3 feet, (probably bigger) or maybe just 27 cubic feet, price tag of like 1000 dollars and max 20 sensors. Depending on interest in it, and people who actually show up, these rules would tighten/loosen. However, I wouldn't reject anybody who fit in these guide lines, just because theyre slow or something. I know DARPA had a pre race race to see who would be allowed in.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

There is a competition like this called robo-magellan some information is available at http://www.robothon.org/robothon/challenge.php If you do decide to start your own competition and It is in the NYC area (or closer to RI) I would be more than happy to help you with planning or would atleast like to compete.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

I would be interested, but my team is not in the area.

However, if you guys try this out, I'd love to see how it goes, as I might want to host one outside of SVR, or another local regional that I attend.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

The rules would generally be the same, but there are some things I would like to change. Also, there would be another competition for people who don't have the programming kit. It would be human controlled as a seperate one, so people who don't have the money can still partake in the festivities. Some rules I would change would be allowing people to measure the course, that woul dbe illegal. Wheel diameter would be restricted a bit, and there would also be limit on number of motors. People could take part in both if they wanted to.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

maybe make it really hard and do not limit any hardware, the real hard part will be setting the direction without the GPS but it sounds like a lot of fun

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

Here is a link to a post I just posted about this topic.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=46017

This talks about my Mini DARPA Challenge I am in. :)

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

You said you would not need to rely of GPS, you did not rule it out.

You can get GPS units on ebay with serial outputs for $100. Its a great way to get from A to B if you know where B is, but GPS is not a magic solution. You still need to avoid obsticals and not run into other vehicles.

GPS would only be one subsystem of the navigation design.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

A digital compass with tilt compensation and a gyro help when the lock is lost. The lazer stuff is big $$$$$. However ultrasonic and IR sensors are very usable and relatively cheap.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

GPS is only accurate toa certain degree, for something this small, i mightactually hurt your performance.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

Yup, commerical GPS, as it is now, is probably only accurate to about 10 or 15 feet. In a course that's in a section of a park or something, I would imagine the error would be too much to be very useful

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

There was an artricle about Robo Magellan in one of the free Servo magazines we got this year (Or maybe last year) It was about some one who won a competition he used a remote controlled truck kit (Traxxas makes some great ones) as a base then added Ultra sonic sensors for obstical recognition and avoidance as well a digital compass to stay on track. Finally he used a CMU cam to Identify the traffic cone that marked the end point. I dont remember what he used for a controller but all of those sensors could be used with the Vex kit EDU controller or for a little more power a gumstix, any thing with a serial port could be used.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

They took the military dither (encryption) off GPS about 8 years ago.

Commercial units with position accuracy down to a couple feet have been available for a long time now.

and if you want better, there is a local / surveyor mode where one GPS acts as a reference point in an area, allowing you to get position accuracy to less than a inch!

Also, if you are outside there is no reason why your GPS would lose satellite lock, unless you go through a tunnel, or into a heavily wooded area.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

What kind of terrain would we be dealing with? Rocks, sticks, water, hills what? Make it a size restriction like 20"x20" and an unlimited height, no weight either. Those bumpers you referred to, would there be penalites if you touched them? Thinking behind this would be, a few bump sensors on the 4 corners of your bot would hit the bumper and correct it's trajectory. Just some ideas.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

You are talking about Dave Shinsel and his robot "Seeker." Read more at http://www.shinsel.com/robots/. I spent a half-hour talking to him at the Seattle Robotics Society Robothon last fall. It was pure FIRST "whatever is cheap" construction. Dave used an off-the-shelf RC chassis with a custom-fabricated body and upgraded springs. For computers, he used a Pick processor (what we use in FIRST) and an old notebook computer onboard. The CMU camera had a lens from a cheap pair of polarized sunglasses taped over it to reduce UV saturation.

Dave was a really friendly guy (typical robonut) and I'm sure would answer any question you wanted to email him.

By the way, second place in the 2005 Robo-Magellan contest was won by Tom and Cathy Saxton, who are mentors for FRC team 1318, the Issaquah Robotics Society.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

Rocks, grass, ramps of wood, bumps, asphalt, concrete, maybe some metal parts. The bumpers would just be so you didn't turn around or anything, so you stay on track. I wouldn't restrict the number of times you could hit it, just the length of time you could be in contact with it. And, I would do my height weight rules based on people applying.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

interesting! otherwise, if you have a guard rail the whole lenght of the course all you need to do is follow the rail to the finish line.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

I have talked with a programmer and he thinks that vex may not have the programmable power,

to get to point to point fast you need to have a set electronic point like a way-point. This is very hard with out a gps.

all and all I thing this may be a job for the frc interface it would be easy to use with a gps.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

I dont see any reason why other computers or CPU boards would not be allowed onboard the VEX machine? Im sure the vehicles in the DARPA challenge had some pretty serious computers onboard.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

Great idea,
using the walk paths in Central Park and Battery Park would be a great challenge course. Probably with permission from the NYC Parks Department a sectioned off area would be given to this event.

Suggestions:
1. For the first year, keep it simple and run two weight classes- FRC and VEX.

2. Create black & white pattern marks along the route for the cameras or senors to detect and to maintain their direction.

3. set limits on size, weight and sensor type for each class of competition.

4. Get some really nice trophies with the team entry fees.

5. Create a team festival or picnic during the event (like a team post-regional social)

6. Lots of planning, logistics and volunteers will make this a fantistic post-season event.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

In answer to some questions.

It would not be limited to VEX parts, thats just a suggestion because they are easy to get and to use. If we did have lines i would space them out quite far because otherwise one could just use the line tracker kit from vex to do it. But i would put lines.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

oh just 4 brand new pentium 4's nothing big

If i were closer to NY i would certainly be in although if our team isnt closed minded i may host one here in VA

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

If you had one in VA, I'd deffinetly want to participate, and I'm sure I could find some people to help.

Re: Mini Darpa Challenge
 

The "Gray Team" from Louisiana was considered a low-bucks shoestring operation in the DARPA challenge and spent something like $650,000. None of the DARPA challengers were computing-limited. There are only a couple of FIRST teams that spent that much on their robot. :]