YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Two collaborated robots, say Robot A and Robot B are in the same division in Atlanta.

A third robot, say Robot C, is also in the division.

During one of the middle round qualifying matches Robot A is paired with Robot C AGAINST Robot B.

Robot A and Robot C beat Robot B.

In the final match of Qualifying, Robot B and Robot C are paired together against Robot A.

Robot A has zero losses.
Robot B has one or more losses.
Robot C has zero losses.

Robot A has more qualifying points than Robot C.

If Robot B and C win, Robot C is the #1 Seed.
If Robot A wins, it will be the #1 Seed.

Robots A & B have picked each other in previous regionals and have "dominated" the competition.

You are the coach for Robot B. What do you do?

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

I'd play the darn game, is what I'd do. And play to win it just like I would in any other match. Unless you've in fact been playing to lose the entire regional, anything else is dishonest.

EDIT: Haven't we done the throwing the match discussion a few times before?

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

I would probably have to re-read what you just wrote for me to make that decision. :) :confused: ;)

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

I believe whether it is qualifying match 1 or the last qualifying match, each team has a responsibility to their alliance to play to win that match for their alliance. That is the only Gracious Professional thing to do.

The chips may fall one way or another, but for those 2 plus minutes you are only teamed up with the two other teams on your side of the alliance station.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Play to win or don't play at all.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Being collaborated robots wouldn't mean anything to me. I know both teams worked really hard on both robots, but I want to win, which is selfish I know. Even if your not going to be picking, you want to win and show what you can do. Besides, the #1 seed has a slight disadvantage when picking, which isn't going to be as bad at Nationals.

Anyhoo, Nationals is a whole lot different than the regionals they attended during the year. MORE teams, BETTER teams, and going undefeated is going to be harder there. We'll all have to wait the 4 weeks until Nationals for the results.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

ditto.

At most regionals (except for the large ones) you should expect to play against and with most teams. When teams choose to collaborate they should expect to be in those situations. Even if the robots are exactly the same the strategy can set each one apart from each other. So my take is and always will be play your game and let the match unfold as it will.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

are you refering to any paticular teams...... the Triplets at GTR come to mind.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

ok, you throw the match. And then someone throws up a robot design rule challenge against your opponents, and they are disqualified.

So you win, with 0 points, they are out of the top 8, and everyone at the event thinks your team cant shoot its way out of a paper bag,

and your two alliance partners hate your team

whats more, everywhere you go for the rest of the day you have Ken Wittlief following you around, booing and heckling you until his voice gives out!

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

It could be any collaborated teams.

I'm just pointing out how things could possibly look.

I am not AT ALL SAYING THIS HAS OR WILL happen. It's just a YMTC since we haven't had many this year...

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

The Ethical Answer is that Robot B plays to win, otherwise, you are not truly acting as an alliance with your other partners in the Qualifying matches. It is dishonest not to attempt a victory.

Surprisingly though, the Logical Answer is still "Robot B plays to win". Basically, if Robots B and C are capable of beating Robot A during qualification matches, it is a good sign that they are capable of doing the same in the playoffs. The scouts for Team C would have to be asleep in the stands to miss the dominance of that pairing.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Go big or go home...

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Play to win or don't bother continue competing. Before and after the competition (or match) we're friends: during the match is a different story - Not exactly GP but hey we all have a place on that ranking sheet - im gonna fight for my alliance in getting those spots.


Another way to look at this is look at Racing Events 2 - 3 teams under the same owner - fairly the same cars and setups would you really slow down to let your team mate win and get passed by 15 cars in doing so or do you floor it and take the trophy home yourself.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Haven't had many - I don't think I've seen any in the past 2 years and I usually keep an eye out for them =)

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Actually, that's a good point in favor of throwing the match. "Team Rules" often happen in racing where a teammate is told to let their teammate pass and win because they are in the points race, and the person winning the race isn't.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

I haven't seen this in NASCAR; you must watch Formula 1.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

You play your hardest, you do your best, anything less doesn't belong out there.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

I agree.

I think throwing a match is disrespectful to the partners in your alliance, the alliance playing against you, your own team and its supporters. One of the cool things about FIRST is that we "compete like crazy" on the field (and cooperate like crazy off the field). How can you do that, if you're throwing matches?

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

You have to play.

I don't know any team in FIRST or really any mentors in FIRST that would tell a team to throw a match. I know that i sure haven't and will never say we should throw a match. That is not and never will be part of FIRST.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

1st: what is the robot design rule?

2nd: i agree that throwing the game is disrespectful. furthermore, if Robot B threw the game, everyone there including robot 1's scouts would see it... would u want an alliance partner who had just thrown the match for their alliance?

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

Not enough choices.
You forgot these:

• B sandbags C, meanwhile X dumps on A so that Y gets #1 seed and chooses Z and W and gives X an IOU.

• B sandbags C, but the scoring software gives them the win by mistake, causing B to protest their win and everyone else to detest B, but not by mistake.

• The US invades Canada mid April for NAFTA violations (at least that's the excuse given) and the Champs end up being played late July in Hamilton, Ontario because the Triplets aligned with Woburn and took out the first wave of Bradleys then a division of M1A1s.

• The Martians invade Atlanta but are done in by the common cold (great idea for a radio script), meanwhile all the scheming and dealing backfire into causing a Championship alliance made up of the three teams from New Mexico who conspired when no one was looking.

Regards,
Resident Cynic

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

someone alleges that the robots are in violation - IE, overweight, shooter too fast, illegal battery....

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

and this makes a difference how?

If the robot isn't illegal, it does nothing but make you look like a jerk.

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

I have seen this happen..its not the moral thing to do, but it can be considered smart, if you are going for what you think would be the sure win.

Personally, I would never throw a match, no matter who it would get me alligned with. As Henry said, "Go Big or Go Home."

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

if the robot was illegal then they are disqualified and lose the match

the point is you never know what will happen in a match - you decide to throw a match because you know your friends on the opposite side of the field will win... and you may end up looking like idiots

Re: YMTC: #1 Seed
 

And then, of course, there is robot E who is also allied with you. You don't know it but they are a small underfunded team who has never been picked to play in the finals before. They have had unusually good luck at this event and nothing has broken down. If you had won the match, they would have been in the top 8 and guaranteed to play in the finals. But you didn't, you threw the match and they were knocked out of the top 8 and weren't picked.

Extreme example I know, but just so long as we are inventing scenarios. When you throw a match you hurt everyone on your alliance. It would be irresponsible and un-GP to throw a match, no matter what the circumstances. This is how first works. Teams help each other of the field and play their hardest on it.