Championship Division Strength
 

Would you rather be in a deep division with lots of strong teams, or a shallow division with only a few powerhouses?

Let us know why!

I did not make this a poll because I have some irrational dislike for polls, so lets just open up the discussion!

Rob

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

well I think that depends on the strength of your bot. If you are a powerhouse team in a division of powerhouse teams then odds are you are going to have some tough but good matches. You can look at it like playing golf with a pro..they always seem to make you better.

On the flip side of things if you have a medium bot i would rather be in the medium division so i am not getting trounced every match.

So much goes in to this...

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I would rather play against the best teams out there. It pushes you to be better, and shows you where you stand against the best. If we only played against mediocre teams how would we know how good we are, or how good we can become.


Given the chance I would play chess against Bobby Fisher, even though I would have no chance at winning. Because it is an honor to play against the best.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Powerhouse division.

If you are a powerhouse team, I would rather come out of my division knowing I beat the best and I should have a good chance on Einstein. Also, with more powerhouse teams, the third pick should be better than the third pick in other divisions giving you a better chance on the center field.

If you are a middle ranked team, then I would still rather be in a powerhouse division to hopefully be picked by the winning powerhouse, and make it to Einstein.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

everyone who builds their bot wants to push it to the limits, "go big or go home". Naturally everyone wants to win, especially on the National level, and you would be proud of say winning a divisions if you were in a "stacked" division or not, but regardless of what division you are in, or how many amazing robots there are, you will face the best of the best in each division playoff. You may have it "easy" through qualifying, but come time do decide who plays in the big game you are going to get the best each robot/team has, i really think that despite there being some harder divisions, in the end its going to be tough regardless.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I think that either way the competition will be difficult. First, I haven't seen a division where there weren't a ton of powerful robots.

With that said, if you are in what you consider a "powerhouse" division, you are playing against them, but you also have them on your alliances too. You get the disadvantage of hard matches at times competing against strong robots, but you also get the advantage of having those robots on your alliance as well!

Same goes the other way, you may compete in one match against a weaker robot, but that same robot may be on your alliance in the next match.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Powerhouse team.

If I had the chance to choose a division that had lets say

25, 66, 67, 71, 111, 121, 173, 217, 233, 254, 469, 494, 571, 1114

(I know that this will never happen, because just look at all the talent that would be in that division)

I would have to say through my team in thier so that we can play, cause if you can't go big you must well go home.

*** This is not saying that these are the best teams in FIRST, just that these teams have proven themselves over and over no matter the game and i consider these teams to be some powerhouse teams***

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I'd rather play in a division with enough elite teams to form a good alliance.

Look at what happened on Archimedies last year. Everyone beat each other up, and lots of the robots that were generally regarded as being among the best in the country didn't even make it far in the divisional playoffs.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

For our particular robot design.. powerhouse division. We designed our bot to control the small goal, but we have found playing a good defensive game will get us much farther. Therefore, if there are more good shooting teams, more good shooting alliances will be formed and alliances will rely on defensive powerhouses, such as ourselves, to get the job done.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

A Powerhouse division by far. It does eliminate some of the teams that may deserve to be on Einstein along the way, but as so often quoted, Dean said FIRST isn't fair. Look at Archimedes in 2004, the field that 188 was on. That division was absolutely stacked with 71, 111, 60, 33, 494, 571, 56, 45, 269, 1272, 1002 and the list goes on, but that didn't mean the other fields did not have any kind of competition or that they did not stand a chance against them. Even with what seems like a massive concentration of talent, there will always be teams sneaking under the radar, teams that have won a regional or two but lack the star power of some of the big names as well. I don't think in either scenario will you ever have a lack of competition. You want to be in a division or paired with the best robots possible, so you want to be in the stacked division. If your robot performs well, even with a shoddy win-loss record due to poor luck or what not, the legitimate teams that pick at the end of the day well notice (a la 610 in 2006). By Championships, the big teams that do end at the top of the divisions should have a scouting system worked out. There is more than enough depth across all FIRST teams to have a wild Championship event, especially this year.
Then you just have to make the right call on who to pick, and sometimes it can turn out agonizing. 111 or 71 anyone? :confused:

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I would definitely rather be in a powerhouse division. If you want to do well on Einstein, you need a good alliance. The only way to get a good alliance is to be in a division with a lot of good teams.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

You know this year especially with my teams robot I would rather be in a powerhouse division. My team 1251 was in Archimedes last year and I mean that was a powerhouse division. Unfortunately we only got to play with one of the real legends that were in the division (71) and we played against the great teams more then we did with them. However, you do have that chance of getting to play with those good teams and if luck is on your side you might just end up sitting real pretty at the end of qualifying, if not hey you played against the best and who knows maybe one of the big teams you played with or against will remember you in alliance selections.

My two cents on the issue,
Drew

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Strangely I have never remembered a division being "weak" at the championship.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Powerhouse, if only so I can watch the masters at work. However, even if you play (and loose) every match against a powerhouse team, if you play well, they will notice, and you've got a good chance to be on an elimination alliance with one or more of them. Play good defense. Make it a tough match. MAKE THEM NOTICE YOU!

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Lol Ed come on man. You were in Archimedes last year too you know how crazy that division was. Your right though there are always so many great bots it's tough to have a weak division because FIRST is awesome like that.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

If I had to choose I'd rather be in a division. I'm just happy we're going; it's going to be a great experience for everyone.

On topic, I'd rather be in a powerhouse division, if only so I can more easily meet the "stars." In a powerhouse division, it seems like it'd be more common to play both with and against good teams, which are both the highlights of any competition.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I'd rather be in the hardest division possible. Think about what you can learn from all of these amazing teams!

Also, so I could root for my division in the finals.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Just playing my favorite game on these boards: Stating the obvious.
Yes Archie was tough last year( I remember when I told Jason last year that we were in Archie his eyes went wide with horro and he said "I'm so sorry!" :D ) and it was fun mixing it up with all those tough teams but you see what all that hype bought us. Our division didn't even make it to the finals.
So take this lesson to heart kiddies: Don't beleive the hype!

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

Wow, you listed us with those teams?!

::Tears up:: so... happy

Back on track though, being someone who doesn't make it out of the pits too often, I would rather be in a powerhouse division if only to shorten my walk to see awesome robots. In terms of learning and being interesting, powerhouse divisions are great.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I dont wanna be in a division where Im going to get run over nor do the running over. Newton last year was the type of division I like. Good game and matches with strong, but not all super robots. It got fun at the end but it was an uphill struggle to get there. I want to be in the seeds and to have earned it.

Every time I run the numbers, looks like my team is in a such division (Good shot @ winning but have to earn it.) :)

Edit: This sums it up for me too...

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

even though being in a powerhouse division is better id say that i would rather be in a division that has competitive teams that will put everything they got into a match to keep the score close all the way down to the final seconds.



;) im not just putting this in cause everyone chose the powerhouse division

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I will admit that I too stand in the powerhouse division interest bracket.

At least let's make a case for a hypothetical weaker division.

In a weaker division, somebody has to step up. Maybe it's the team that was always one away from being picked for the eliminations for the entire season, and finds their chance to shine. Maybe it's a defensive robot that doesn't realize until the event that it can control the entire match. Maybe it's a team that qualified that didn't expect to compete well but ends up proving themselves. I can't wait to see some of the big-name players in action this year, ones that have been mentioned above. I look forward to seeing teams like 469, 177, 195, 25, 1114...so on and so forth, but a weak division could very well bring out some unpredicted all-stars.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I agree. I'd rather be in a more well-rounded division where I get to see great robots from experienced teams, clever new designs from teams I might not have heard from, and get to watch/play in an overall good competition.

To me, FIRST is about the experience that you get from all aspects of the competition (the game play, the spirit in the stands, the fierce strategizing, the blood sweat and tears shed in the pits to get the robot working before a match, etc). In a Power House division, you'll still see blood, sweat, and tears, but mainly from the teams playing against the Power Houses.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

From all the responses, it seems like most people have interpreted "non-powerhous division" to mean "completely free of elite teams".

I'd much rather be in a situation like Galileo and Newton were last year, where there were obviously teams who were capable of winning it all, and enough of them to form a winning alliance, but not so many that you got completely beat up on the entire weekend before even the divisional playoffs/final matches.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I just want to be in a division where we can get the 2 teams to perfectly compliment us for the elimination rounds. We know what we need to do well at this point. Many of you know what you need too.

Also remeber the alliance that wins in ATL has no fewer than 10 elimination matches to survive just to win in the fewest possible matches. Up to 15 are possible to win on Einstien. You need a robot that can survive this with minimal repairs needed. A "powerhouse division" could beat each other up so much that the alliance coming out of it can't make it through the final 4-6 matches.

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I know this is a bit off topic but anybody know when the official divisions are announced?

Thanks,
Drew

Re: Championship Division Strength
 

I'm guessing that this year they'll be released about 1 week to 1.5 weeks before the competition. The deadline for payment as publicized on FIRST's site is next friday, April 14.