Which type of offense is better?
 

Havn't seen this yet, Which type of offense is better in your opinion and why?

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

If they both shoot for 3Pt's, it really doesn't matter to me. But after thinking about it, a ramp shooter would be a little better. Why, because you have to go up the ramp to defend them, which means a greater chance of falling over on the ramp. In the end, if they both score around the same, then neither really has the advantage.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

forgot to vote...mobile shooter because its harder to defend a robot if it is moving around, and if it has a turret it's even more deadly...although having a ramp shooter has perks...the biggest disadvantage is if the ramp has been blocked

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

It really depends on the robot's other abilities. If the robot is easy to push, it would do better as a ramp bot cuz fewer robots would be able to defend them up there. If the robot is very hard to push and has a turret, the floor would be better because it could hold its position while shooting and it would not have a restricted area where it could shoot from. I think the mobile shooter is better overall.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

I think that ramp shooter is much more predictable / reliable. I've seen some pretty good mobile shooters get shut down pretty effectively. But with a ramp shooter all they have to do is get up the ramp and its over. with a team that can shoot while going up the ramp and from the platform, the fact that they basically don't miss and can have a ton of balls is absolutely huge.

Of course having a combination of the two ( being able to shoot from the floor and from atop the ramp at high accuracy ) would be the best combo in the game.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

Have any ramp campers made points in autonomous yet?

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

I believe 703 could. Though in the quarterfinals at GTR, Team 4 was able to prevent them from scoring a lot in during autonomous.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

The only ramp camper that I saw score well is 703, but even they can be stopped. If they were stopped in autonomous they lost all of their balls. 451 was the No. 2 Ramp scorer, and they didn't do it reguarly, which made them tough to stop. I saw one more ramp scorer at Wisconsin, I won't give away their number but they were strong at it. It is their secret weapon that I'm sure they plan on using at Nationals (IF they are going). :D

The turret scorer is strong but there is on more design that is the best. "Corner Ramp Camper" the two best robots I saw (85 and 111) shot from the corner of the ramp into the goal. It is the best strategy. It makes you impossible to move.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

You havn't seen 254? They are pretty awesome.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

Cyber Blue has the ability to both shoot from the ramp and the floor. We tend to shoot from the floor and only go up the ramp if we are getting a lot of defense. Both strategies have their pros and cons.

While Shooting from the floor you don't have to worry about falling over while going up and down the ramp or the amount of time it takes. However, you are more susceptible to defensive robots on the floor.

With the ramp campers you have the same easy shot time after time as long as you can get up the ramp. Once you're up there, there isn't a whole lot of defense that can be played on you unless a team can get perpendicular to you and push you sideways. But like I said earlier, you risk falling down everytime you're on the ramp and it takes some time to go collect balls and then drive to the ramp and get up.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

Mobile shooters have the edge over most robots.

Stationary shooters have to Shoot and Scoot (Military term) (Shoot their salvos before they are spotted, then reload and post to shoot; REPEAT) 435 is a prime example. The posted, fired their burst before they were hit, reloaded and posted again.

The only teams that are harder to stop are the ramp shooters. THe only way to stop them is beat them to the ramp or pin them so they can't shoot up there. (222 from VCU comes to mind.)

There is no offense that is clearly better. Each has it's pros and cons. However, there are more cons for ramp shooters so I put the money on the mobile shooters with turrets and burst shooters that fire fast.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

Well if you camp the ramp, then you better be able to shoot from off the ramp. Just take a look at 25 and 254. Heck you could even say 1126(I know they can they just haven't from the ramp, but i am hoping to see them do it), 111, 1114, 1503.

These are all teams that can camp the ramp but can also shoot extremely well from the floor as well.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

There are bots that can do both and I think those are a lot more effective than the ones that are stuck in a single routine.

Ours was most effective 'ramp-camping' because we didn't have to spend more than a second or two aiming (turret was manually aimed). On the ground though we could shoot from a variety of places after using a little more time to aim.

Not to say we were the most deadly shooter but it fixed the problem of: "Oh what if the ramp-camper is blocked off the ramp?"

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

be the ball

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

I really liked the ternm 'Ramp Camper'

I think a 'Ramp Camper' is more deadly because it's a bit harder to defend. The defending team would have to Camp the Ramp themselves.

Mobile shooters have a much smaller degree range they have to shoot in for it to score. From 10 feet away it's, I think, 2 or 3 degrees that the shooter has to be aimed in.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

I personally believe that a mobile shooter is the best option. I believe this not due to a winning attitude, but due to the idea of the acheivements. It is much easier to create a good ramp spammer than it is to create a shooter from the floor, and still be accurate.

A team will end up learning more and will end up with more knowledge if they design and effectively implement a floor shooter.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

Not impossible, 85 was pushed at a awkward angle and got stuck on the ramp wall at West Michigan. This only happened because of our opening to pickup balls, and we also broke the wall so there was black tape there to fix it.

107 and 451 both went up the ramp to score. I think 451 ever did it during autonomous once or twice at West Michigan, but I'm not completely sure. Also 141 did the same thing. These teams are good and its too bad that only 451 will be at Nationals.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

Depends on what you're trying to learn. If you mean tracking algorithms, turret mechanics, and perhaps controls knowledge...maybe. But only if you have the resources. From far too much experience (myself the biggest offender), pursuing more than is practical for your team will get you more headaches and frustration than it will knowledge. A team that decides on a strategy, perhaps conservative, and pursues it to the best of their ability might learn more in terms of real-world knowledge and be more successful.

There aren't many companies that have the resources to pursue more than one industry...and the ones that do without the capability either fail or reorganize!

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

I personally think that a team that can run around on teh field and score is better. I saw a couple of teams (832 an 222) which were amazing robots that took a lot of thinking and precise machinig and all that good stuff that turnd out to be amazing campers (i know 832 could do both, not sure about 222). But, they could still be pushed around by strong teams. I know teams went out of their way to have a bot stay back while on offense to stop the back bot (222) from gettiing on the ramp. Getting on the ramp can be pretty hard and plus, you can still be moved around.

Another thing is that getting more balls seems as if it would be more difficult with a robot that stays on the ramp. I know 222 had the human player load it while it was on the ramp. Sometimes it can be a little difficult to get the ball in from 50 feet away. And if you have to get off the ramp to pick up more balls, it gives the other alliance another chance to stop you from getting on the ramp or in your sweet spot position.

Re: Which type of offense is better?
 

i dont kno if we will ever do it because of our lack of practice (but keep in mind that can all change) u never kno maybe on thursday we will try. I am the coach i hope that i have some say in what we practice...unless...yes!! of course!!!....MUTINY :ahh: !!!!!my team is commiting mutiny!!!!!!! help!!! o wait false alarm but both of these thoughts will stay in my mind and tim i could always use some back up :D with the mutiny of course