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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
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If you are still getting acclimated to the college environment and/or you are especially busy, pick only one or two days that work for you during each week of build season. Let the leaders know that they can expect you to be there on those one or two days. It will add consistency to the team, and make it a LOT easier for the leaders to plan for both mentor and student tasks from day to day. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I Started my first year of college and am also mentoring a team its a huge balence but I think it all mostly come to who you are and how much you can handle. For me I was able to still continue my studies and mentor with a full load in college pretty well. Although im very glad I came back Ive had alot of fun so far. You really have to know yourself and how much you can handle.
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I agree with this. My major is TV and Vidoe Perduction and studying for it in Milwaukee, WI. Haveing a job, plus school work and then also doing stuff like
FLL and FRC stuff it. It can be stressfull at time but also is a good thing to be working with people that you know, but sometimes its a good to have fall back on just to and have fun or just go talk to people that have the same intrest as you do. I mentor the team that i been on for 3 years now. This was the first year that I couldn't really help out the team as much as I could in years past, due to project that I have done. Over all I try my hard to stay in contact with the team. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I found this thread a year or two ago and really appreciate the advice contained within. I'll be majoring in comp. sci. at a college halfway across the country [LeTourneau U] starting in August and am considering what steps I should take to stay involved with FIRST. FIRST will be in my life no matter what, I just have to decide how and how much.
I'm planning to lay low my first year but am still hoping to keep in touch with my team back in Oregon, help out where I can with organization and so on, mostly in the off-season. You know, the occasional email: 'How's the NASA grant application going? Is recruitment up? Time to book hotels for regionals!' and so on. I know this could change when I actually get to college and am floundering in coursework, but I have a dream. Longview is a town of ~70 k people, with several public and private high schools, yet there are no FIRST teams in the area. I envision students from LeTourneau [an engineering and aviation college] working as junior mentors to a team based at Longview High School, funded by one of the several manufacturing and technology corporations in Longview, and under the wing of LeTourneau faculty. I know this is a far-fetched dream, but I have seen so many amazing things happen with FIRST that I think it's possible. Last night I contacted all the STEM teachers at the high school, mentioning the idea and asking what their input it. So far one has responded with interest, and said [to my excitement] that the school had done VEX in the past. I'm concerned that the team be well planned, starting at least a year in advance [guess I should head over to the new-team forum to ask if this is long enough], and that the team not be so dependent on any group of LeTourneau students that it folds when a class graduates. I particularly appreciated Eric's comment about mentoring in the off-season being a better plan than doing so in build season. People who know me say that if anyone can mentor a team in college, I can. This year I started seven FLL teams in my town and mentored two of them. Coaching those FLL kids was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done, if stressful at times. I think this bodes well for my future as an FRC mentor, although I know the difference between starting an FLL and and FRC team is exponential. My biggest asset to my FRC team has not been technical, even though I was lead programmer this year and loved it; it's leadership, organization and ENTHUSIASM. I'm so far from being burned out on FIRST, it's not even funny, but I think a year off to regroup and plan further schemes to conquer the world through FIRST is a good idea. Thank you all for your advice. |
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Im a big asst to the team because I been helping them with the chairmans award. Teaching them how to set up a intreiw, pre-pare qestions and how to frame something corrrtly. One of the things I been leting the team know is that im going to be busy, but some how that happens I allows put stuff to the side and help the team. This year was different year because I had project after project in school and I got it done and all but I wish that I had lay low a year or two. For one of my projects I had to create a half an hour show so I decided to do it on FIRST. Here is the link to it http://youtu.be/7apTSmhGfFI . One thing that this show did it open my eyes to what other teams are doing. After this semseter I was really burnt out from all the projects and robotics but I look what i have done and I think I did a good job. I dont mind helping with stuff or help a student get an event together it he/she needs it. My best friend and I and his dad where on the same team together. One day I was talking to him about school, friend on the same robotics team. One thing that he say that is that maybe there should be where a rule on the team that you cant come back for one year if your a student going into a mentor postion because of how close we are to some people on the team (friend and stuff like that). My best friend gose to school out of state but he is still involed in FIRST. As for me FIRST will be close to me im trying to find differnet ways to help FIRST where i am going to be. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I wanted to add my 2cents while they are still valid.
I left 118 the Robonauts and as soon as I got to college joined 1745 the P-51 Mustangs. Upon joining I tried my best to manage school and the team but it just wasn't working in my favor so I decided to cut back and focus on the two things that I could do when I was free, and not necessarily every day for the 6 weeks of the build. Those two things I chose were website and Chairman's. Upon taking on these roles I was able to schedule times with the students 1-2 times a week for a few hours, give them 'assignments/tasks' and would review their material when we met next and continued the cycle. Although I was not able to contribute to the physical robot, that year the P-51 Mustangs took home both the Website and Regional Chairman's awards. The next season, I thought to myself, "I'm a year wiser" and went gung-ho on FIRST...due to my coursework and work, I ended up throwing in the towel at around the 3-4wk mark and was unable to contribute to team after. This is where I made my decision to help elsewhere where I could. I was contacted about being a web evaluator & adviser and jumped on and have continued over the past two years. The moral of my story being, don't bite more than you can chew. I don't care if you participate in robotics during college your freshman year, just understand two things. 1. You do not only let down yourself, but your team. They relied on you, and you screwed it up if you can't handle it, and most importantly 2. getting your GPA good after screwing up costs money, takes up more time, and will put more stress on your mind then you can imagine. TL;DR. Someone once told me, "A smart man learns from his own mistakes, but a wise man learns from the smart man's mistakes." Pavan . |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Hi,
I am graduating this year and I would like your input. Instead of pursuing mentorship, I am interested in becoming a website award judge. Would this be a plausible position to apply for as a freshman? Thanks! |
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I would really love to stay connected with FIRST during college, it has been such a wonderful experience for me and I want to prolong it. Since my school of choice is close to Boston (in Worcester, by WPI) I know that their is probably going to be a regional their I would like to volunteer.
What would be the best position for me to volunteer as? Is a ref a reasonable goal? |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Are you a rules geek? Then ref would be a good choice to try.
But, all refs were supposed to have been selected by Dec. 30. Contact your regional volunteer coordinator to see if they still need someone. |
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The Boston regional has been held at the Agganis Arena you can get there relatively easily through a combination of Commuter rail and the T. Manchester and Hartford are both ~1.5 hrs from Worcester and are pretty easy drives, I would also imagine that musses to either city are available from the train station. My advice would be to get in touch with WPI when you get to Worcester, they have a very active students, faculty, and community volunteers that run all sorts of FIRST programs in the area, they would be able to put you in touch with the right people to volunteer at whatever level you want to. Coleen Shaver (she is on CD as ColleenShaver) is probably the woman to contact for all things FIRST in the Worcester Area. Libby Kamen (Libby K on CD) is probably the person to talk to in Boston, I believe she is the volunteer coordinator for the regional. |
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Just make sure you register in the VIMS first (Volunteer Information Management System) |
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Having gone through this, I see some valid points in most of the posts, although I'll try to add something instead of being the "I agree with everyone" guy :]
I went to college 50mins from home and commuted. I hadn't planned on staying on my team (despite loving it so much) due to both schedule and wondering if there was a place for a college student, kind of echoing some of Ken's concerns way back in the thread. However, my team approached me in 2006 (my freshman year at UNH) and asked me to come back and help them with the vision system, since I had jumped in over my head with that on the Tetra year trying to get Labview to run on a PC on the robot. Yeah, that was legal before we made it not :-) I have been a mentor ever since, and now I'm a finishing grad student with five years in heavy construction. Its been very hard to find the time, but for me, it was worth it. You do have to prioritize and there are places I wish I had spent more time on my grades than on FIRST. And if you think that is hard, try getting married :) Being a newlywed college student new job mentor is pretty tough! But prioritizing, time management, and being intelligent with your resources really helps you get the most out of all of it. I do want to strongly encourage anyone who is in college and thinks they can handle it to DO IT. The more time I spend in the "real world", the more I realize that the FIRST experience and mentality is desperately needed in the professional world. The "real world" is plagued by a lack of vision, a crippling fear of failure, and the ever-present "box" that most people can't seem to cut their way out of with a torch. It sinks innovation and is the reason we are falling behind. Other countries don't have some of those issues with their engineers and builders, and they're leaving us in the dust. FIRST forces you to work with people of very different skill levels, and for a college student that involves both engineers who know way more than you and students who know way less. You want to build character? Try mentoring in that environment. You will learn pretty quickly that humility, initiative, and care for people is alot harder than you think, and its lacking in our workplaces. Being a mentor in college has benefited me far more than being a FIRST student, and is the reason I am (admittedly) doing very well professionally and regarded as a can-do problem solver willing to tackle and learn anything. Those are things I learned through hard work in FIRST, and has changed me as an engineer. That little mental hurdle at trying new things that you have to get over as a student will come in real handy when you're on a steel beam over a river, there's a technical problem, and its time to cowboy up and get the job done! Engineering can be exhilarating, and I learned that through FIRST. Long story short, be responsible, but be a mentor! You won't regret it! Even if you fail, you'll learn something! |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I agree it can be difficult, with mentoring in the academic world to compensate, and I agree that academics should come first. It's a good idea wherever you go, the first semester (or first year) to take to handle the program and what you can before you get involved in something to understand ** - including clubs, sports and First.
But that said, not coaching as a student can really paid off. In technology, especially, it gives you a lot of perspective. Engineering is sometimes based on the theory exaggerated and it is easy to lose sight of what really is - design, teamwork, production, testing, all the things we have learned with fun. And it's incredibly important to the side of "learning", where you really understand something of the equation to explain to someone else. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
http://www.tenouk.com/learningretentionrate.html
There's something to be said for communicating. In engineering and science if you ever hope to interface with people outside of your field you'll find that you need to be able to not just understand, but share your ideas with other people that might not share your grasp or interest in the details. Of course, rushing your education has much the same consequences as rushing what you teach. Life is about balance and it's a pretty much a full time job to maintain that balance. The very first time I mentored I was just finishing up my time as a full time student. At the time the most positive thing I had in my life beyond my family and friends was being a mentor. I never bothered to return to school as a full time student and I probably will not, though I continue my education with classes here and there. This being communicated I have been quite successful in my career both as a business person and as an employee. Seek the balance that's right for you. The strength of all communities, including FIRST, is the diversity of the members. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
As a junior in high school, I'm SO glad I found this sticky thread. Right now, I am planning to go to colleges that are all in-state since I have no desire whatsoever to move out of state. However, I realize as I read this thread that if I'm going to go back to my old team (it would be really easy) once I get into college I'm going to have to change my perspective on lots of stuff. So far, it looks like I'm considering volunteering as an inspector at an event or two. Maybe I'll visit the team every once in a while, but no getting involved until after I get out of college.
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Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Honestly, as a college mentor I'd like to weigh in on this:
This semester, I took a lighter courseload than usual so that I could act in a serious mentoring role for FRC Team 4464. The team was in great need of help, and I felt an obligation to do so. And the experience has been far more valuable than any college course I have ever taken, bar none. Yes, it has been inconvenient as far as classes are concerned; it probably will have had an impact on my grades, and it certainly has had an impact on the amount of stress in my life. Knowing all this, though, I would not have chosen to act otherwise if I could do it again. Not even close. The amount of good that this opportunity has provided, both for me and for those I can help to teach, is more than anything else I've experienced in my life. If the ultimate result is that I need to take longer to graduate, then so be it. For me, it's not even a question if that's a worthy trade-off. Being a mentor in FRC, I can make a real difference in the lives of a large number of people. I can learn more mentoring a FRC team than I can in any course. I wholly intend to schedule my course load for the remainder of my college education around my FRC mentoring obligations, and I have absolutely no reservations about it. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Since this thread has been bumped, I guess I'll chime in with my story. (There's a TL;DR farther down though too)
I started FRC in late 2009 (Just after the build/competition season ended) as a senior in High School. And, as Wooide Flowers puts it, I "caught the bug", and was totally hooked. So when I took a year off after high school, I basically just worked part time and did FRC. I started school again in 2011, with 17 credits a semester in a technical college course in machine tool. I kept on working part time, and doing FRC as sort of a Junior Mentor. As you can imagine, this made my schedule very tight, but really, the stress was manageable, I just got used to spending almost no time at home besides sleeping (if that :rolleyes:) Now on to 2012-2013. I kept on doing all the same stuff; 17 credits, part time work, and FRC. But then, In late 2012, I picked up an FTC team. We had a couple of students at a local high school who wanted to start a team, and reached out to BadgerBOTS, needing a mentor. A mentor (the kind of mentor you should be careful around because he'll convince you to do something crazy) thought I would be good for the role. So, being in too good of a mood to be safely making sound decisions, I said yes. So there I was, 17 credits, working part-time, and mentoring FRC and FTC. Eventually, the stress from all of that did end up getting to me. I didn't have any time to myself. If I wasn't at school or work I was working with FTC because that season was in full swing. And then there was the overlap between the FRC and FTC seasons which made it even crazier. I had a bit of a multi-day breakdown, where I considered dropping the FTC team, or dropping the work (I was living at home, so didn't strictly need the money). But after a bit of that, I got a hold of myself, and pulled it together. I had committed to doing these things, and I had to see them through. Just before our regional, (and the end of the FTC season) I ended up leaving my job for an unrelated reason, and things got much easier. But then I started putting in many more hours per week for FRC. TL;DR: Mentored FRC and FTC while working part time and running a full class load in college, went crazy for a while, but made it through. Mentoring while in school is tough. But honestly, it is doable. That all said, 1306 has since put in a rule that students can't come back to mentor until after their first year of college, so they can acclimate to college life, and then figure out how to juggle FRC and school. Overall, I'm glad I did keep on mentoring during school. It taught me a lot about time management, responsibility, and keeping myself sane :eek: But I can totally understand that some people may not have the tolerance for stress that I do. I would like to say though, that if you plan to come back and mentor, make sure you really have something to pass on to the students. Sure the basic FRC knowledge you get from being a student will help some of the newer kids on the team, but it takes a lot more than that to be a mentor. I can honestly say that I've come a very long way from how I was when I started "mentoring" just a couple years ago. There is a much bigger changeover from student to mentor than you think. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
It seems that people named Evan have the crazy bug. Centurion's story is surprisingly similar to mine and we both happen to be named Evan.
Back in 2008 I helped start my FRC team (2470) as a student in my Sophomore year. I graduated in 2010 as the president of the team and haven't been able to leave since. I initially came back as a mentor for 2470 in 2011 and continued that into 2012. During 2010 and 2011 I was attending my local community college and I took the spring semester of 2012 off because I decided to transfer to Dunwoody College of Technology. This meant I also had a ton of extra time to mentor during the spring of 2012, I ended up joining 2470's sister team, 3081 as a mentor as well to foster a relationship between the two teams. That year the lead mentor/coach of 2470 resigned so I ended up in the position of lead mentor/coach. I also worked on starting a joint FTC team between both 3081 and 2470. I became coach of this team as well, Erector Sets Gone Mad #5943. My first semester at Dunwoody (Going for Electrical Engineering) this past fall was incredibly stressful, not only was I mentoring three FIRST teams but I was also taking 19 credits. I ended up giving all of my free time to robotics, in fact my entire life was pretty much robotics and STEM. At this point I like to think I entered a new phase in my life, I felt a need to re-image myself. I had fully realized my passion for FIRST and robotics. I decided to start GOFIRST at Dunwoody, based off of GOFIRST at the University of Minnesota. I also started networking with other teams in the area (much thanks to FSM Renee Becker), helping create a strong team of mentors in my area. My goal is to create a higher level of competition in Minnesota, causing all teams to improve. I have also been a software intern for General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems since 2011, helping create a strong partnership for 2470. To any graduating seniors, please be careful before you decide to mentor your team. Discuss with the mentors on your team and ask them what they think. If they believe it is appropriate go for it but if they say no please respect their decision as it is very hard to transfer from student to mentor. My first year as a mentor was spent learning from other mentors on my team, I was still pretty much a student. TL;DR: Right now I am the "Senior Technical Mentor/Coach" for 2470, I mentor 3081 and have been asked to take the coach position, I coach FTC #5943, I am president and founder of GOFIRST at Dunwoody, I am currently have an internship at General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (2470's primary sponsor) and I am attending college for 19 credits per semester. Let's just say I am glad FIRST is my passion and social life. I was extremely lucky to have the students on 2470 write a Woodie Flowers essay for me this year, I received the award at 10K Lakes. You can read the submission here. |
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Thanks for sharing your story, we do seem a lot alike :D |
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From an alternate perspective, I've been at 16 or 17 credits for the past two years of college, and I can't imagine myself having the time to mentor a team as well. Granted, I've chosen to take part in other activities within the school that also take up significant amounts of time, but they don't cause nearly as much concentrated stress as build season. I could have chosen to mentor teams here, and I'm sure I could have adapted to the challenge and workload, but I don't think it would have been the best choice for me. For now, I'm content with volunteering when I'm able to (which is not nearly as much as I would like) so that I can stay involved with FIRST, but still pursue other things. So, your mileage may vary. You're not obligated to mentor as a college student: there are other ways to stay involved, if you want to. If you want to, great! But there's no pressure. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
I must say it was much easier for me since I am mentoring the team that I was on all 4 years in high school (starting from its rookie year) and living at home. Despite all this, I STILL find my grades needing a little work and find myself having a hard time balancing my commitments to other organizations. I am in the marching band for WVU, and still actively involved in scouting. However, despite everything, I still have to find time for FIRST. It's extremely difficult, but it still happens.
Essentially what I'm trying to say is that if you have the passion and drive to mentor a team, it is possible. But don't think it's going to be a piece of cake. Like I said, I'm probably in one of the easier mentoring situations for a college student and I still have trouble keeping up. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Hate bumping old threads, but an incredibly rude comment made to me today has had me up in arms/my mind racing, and I couldn't think of a major discussion topic enough to warrant a new thread.
I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers). Now, obviously, I know how absurd/rude/ridiculous that comment was, and normally I shake off stuff like that and don't let it get to me, but it's really got me thinking: Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't? |
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But you are also gaining educational experience. I don't care what field you go into, teaching/mentoring experience is extremely valuable. Not to mention the fact that, even though you are one of the mentors, you are still getting to work with real professionals in the field, rather than just professors or grad students. If I was an employer, I would rather see you volunteering your time to a community organization that helps to change lives everywhere (particularly if you are involved in outreach, starting teams, etc. like I am) that still somewhat relates to your career field OVER something like a collegiate robotics team. Mentoring a FIRST team is COMPLETELY different than participating in a collegiate robotics team. It also would look great to me that you are dedicating yourself to an organization and a group of students that you love, rather than just doing something to advance your career. You participated on a team in high school. Now it's time to LEAD. That brings me to the last point I have. Just like FIRST provides tremendous leadership experience for participants, it also provides this opportunity for college students as well. As an employer, again, that is much more valuable than the participation experience. Now, I could be completely off, and excuse my late-night incomprehensiveness. That being said, there is nothing saying that you can't mentor a FIRST team AND do something else (I am currently involved in a number of student and community orgs). It is entirely possible, and I would encourage you to do so. |
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SailBot et al provide you with experience. So does mentoring, but of a completely different kind. However, mentoring isn't for you. It's for the others. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Ooh, story time. So, after being on an FLL team in elementary and middle school, I joined 857 and was there for the four years of high school. Then, I went to Michigan Tech for college, and started right away mentoring the team. So, freshman year I'm taking 17 credits spring semester, mentoring, and have a part-time job in the MathLab, and 4.0 my classes. Basically same thing sophomore year. Now this, my *more-or-less* junior year (the dual-enrollment and internship make it complicated) I am now lead mentor, but I'm looking to only take 16 credits. Out of that, I overall have a 3.98, and I've had an internship running from May through this December.
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TL;DR: Mentoring in college is not hard for me, but your mileage may vary. PS. 857 and 2586 are essentially exclusively mentored by college students. We've gotten flak in the past for it, but the way I look at it is, even though the team suffers from perpetually being about 4 years old, we won't crumple if that one coach/teacher/mentor/engineer decides to retire. PPS. Also, last year, 857 had three college student mentors who had all been on 857 in high school. |
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That experience was more valuable for me (and, I hope, for the students) than anything I have done before in my life (and I also work on projects that I think even that guy would consider "real"). So, yeah, don't let it get to you. FIRST is important, it is rewarding, and it is every bit as "real" as any other extracurricular you could participate in. It's one thing to hear Dean Kamen talk about "changing culture re: STEM" in a vacuum, where it sounds (admittedly) cheesy and overblown. It's another thing to participate in it, and realize that he's right: FIRST works. It worked for me, and it certainly seems to be working for the students on the teams I'm mentoring. It would not work without mentors. As mentioned a few posts earlier, "changing lives" isn't just a couple of impressive-sounding words, it's very much a real result of what you do as a mentor on a FIRST team. |
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I think when he said 'something real' he probably meant something DIFFERENT. Having new experiences is a really good thing. That doesn't make FIRST any less of a real, valuable, and enriching experience, but the idea of doing 'something else' with your time while you have so many opportunities in front of you isn't a bad suggestion. I mentored in college, and continue to mentor as a graduate student. However, I always make sure to have some 'me' time to do something that interests me that ISN'T FIRST. (Yes, somehow it's possible that something in my life isn't connected to FIRST). Having a diverse set of experiences and new things to draw from is a very good thing. Make sure you have a 'you' outside of FIRST. This community will be here when you get back. It's perfectly okay not to stay hyper-involved during your college years. |
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However as Libby mentions, balance is critical. Doing well with respect to your own standards in school and pursuing other activities that you enjoy are critical to being a positive role model. A mentor who fails all their classes in college in order to mentor and doesn't honor commitments to other things they enjoy can be a negative influence on a team and its students more than anything. They could better contribute as an alumni who chooses to prioritize grades and other commitments above FIRST involvement, then going on to become a leader in STEM and mentoring a FIRST team later on. Different strokes for different folks, there is no one size fits all answer and just like designing a robot or developing a strategy for FRC, prioritization and awareness of one's abilities/resources are vital. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Well, scratch another year of balancing FRC mentoring (for two teams) and university classes. Here are some thoughts, in case anyone might find them helpful/informative/interesting.
This one was significantly more stressful/difficult than the last: I took five classes rather than four, including what is regarded as the most difficult undergraduate math course at our university (Galois theory). Both teams combined, I spent about 40 hours per week on robotics for a large chunk of the semester, as opposed to 20-25 last year, and was in a far more crucial role on 4464 than previously. After build season ended, I missed a total of 9 days of class due to traveling to competitions. The results were very good. Both 449 and 4464 were the strongest they've ever been; the latter reached worlds for the second time in two years and played an important role on the winning alliance at the DC Regional. In terms of academics, I managed nothing below a B, and an A in the hardest course I took. My grades took a hit from what they would have been, but it wasn't disastrous. That said, I would not do this semester again in the same way if given the choice. It's far too much, and no results are worth that much stress. I implore anyone who intends to mentor as a college student to hedge either their participation on the team or their academic workload during the spring semester. After the last day of build season, I essentially slept through three days of classes. I did the same after spending the entirety of my spring break working on the practice bot. I cannot imagine that the amount of exertion was healthy, nor the unending state of stress that lasted for essentially the whole semester. Perhaps the most telling moment was, when asked by a parent of one of 4464's students how I manage to keep up with all the class I've missed and time I've invested into robotics, my honest answer was that I didn't. I managed as best I could in the time I did have in class, and as it happens that ended up being good enough to learn most of the material and receive acceptable grades. That is not a healthy approach to college, and I do not wish to repeat it. I will not say that you should not mentor as a college student, or even that you should not be in serious mentoring position with a large amount of responsibility as a student; I have gotten a huge amount out of my participation in FIRST after graduating. I will say that you must be wise about your own limitations and the amount of work you take on. Err on the side of caution; having come frighteningly close to burnout this year, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that you don't want to suffer the consequences of getting it wrong. |
Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.
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Also, sorry I can't stop but thinking of songs from Book of Mormon when seeing your user name. ;) |
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I treated it like any other organization. I stayed involved in scouting (even joined a group for scouting at the college level), I joined the marching band at WVU, and I stayed involved in FIRST. It's just like joining any other organization at the university. However, I know a lot of FIRST mentors that have said the same. Some folks do really well mentoring FIRST in the freshman year. Some don't. It depends on the situation, and the person. But I know personally and for many of my friends that are college mentors, we know that we would have been lost without FIRST, and we wouldn't really be able to stay away anyway. ;) ... You can grow, learn, and expand while also being involved in FIRST. |
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I agree with Joe Matt, despite being a college mentor my freshman year. If I had to give general advice to students in FRC, knowing little about their situation, I would suggest a year off of full time mentoring. Mentors are different than students, and six months into college isn't a ton of time to learn, grow, and gain the life experience an adult mentor has. All of that said, I know some people that mentor in college who can handle the responsibility, and maintain an active presence in campus extracurricular, AND get pretty good grades. These people are the exception to the rule and certainly don't need my advice. The majority of students, even the students who could do it in high school!!!, are going to struggle with this. So I'm not trying to say you specifically shouldn't mentor, but that I agree with the general advice. I know how it is. Giving up FRC is extremely hard because frankly, at that time in your life there's not a lot else going on that feels so meaningful. For many FRC becomes part of their identity. But before you can be a really effective mentor, you have to grow up. It's hard to say I regret all of the choices that put me where I am today, but if I could do it again, I would have stuck to the sidelines and helped in a much smaller way for my first years. I wasn't ready. |
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College gets harder, and college is really really important. You aren't paying a lot of money to play FIRST. You are paying a lot of money to get the most out of your classes. I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first. And honestly, college kids don't always make the best mentors. We shouldn't make good mentors. We should be too devoted to school to give up that much time a week to be a full-time mentor. For the first half of college, we don't even know that much and are just super-high-school-seniors when it comes to robotics knowledge. We can't give that extra incite that defines a mentor from an older student. I'm sure you, and others, are blowing off my comment because "I am not you and I will do it better". Like others said, if you can, great. But don't lie to yourself, and don't ruin your college experience because of it. |
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I try to make a point to make it to Kickoff (where I help lead brainstorming afterwards), at least one meeting where I remind everyone about scholarships and it's where we get the group input for Woodie Flowers, and then competitions. For awards and such, I'm in email/text communication with the students that are in charge of that. If I make it to another meeting, that's great. If not, I wasn't expected anyways. Most of us who tell you not to mentor in college truly have your best interests at heart. And we're not telling you to not be involved with FIRST while you're in college. But it really does need to take a back seat to what you're studying. And for Kettering B-section students especially: I know how much free time you have on work term. Yes, you're not in class and can mentor more freely than you can on school term. But you could also use this time to pick up a hobby or learn something you didn't have time to do over school term. Take advantage of student discounts. (For instance, there's swing dancing groups in Ann Arbor that offer discounts to students. Go take a lesson. Or five.) Meet other people. Use this time to become a "more well rounded person". You need to come before robotics. |
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It's also important to note that staying involved with FIRST does not mean you have to mentor a team. Most areas are looking for volunteers, and there are a number of ways to help teams in your area without beong a full time mentor-- for example, most teams are always looking for people to run their Chairman's presentations by.
Volunteering or generally experiencing FIRST outside of the context of a team are valuable-- not just from a "bringing something to the team," but also for gaining a broader perspective and expanding your personal network. |
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Just remember how much more there is to college than academic life, sleep, and heck, even Netflix :p . Every semester will pass by you quickly. I learned pretty quickly that, after a season of mentoring, you start regretting missing events and people because you didn't make time for them. As Chris said, there's people who are truly exceptional and can be incredibly well-rounded. They can have a meaningful college experience outside of the classroom, as well as outside of mentoring. I guess my point doesn't just pertain to students who want to mentor in college; this rings true for any college student. It's easy to mentor because it's an environment you're comfortable with and are happy with. You know you'll love it because you're passionate about it. Meeting a different variety of people and being involved in so much more than FIRST can be just as, if not more, meaningful to you if you give things a try. Being immersed in FIRST definitely becomes a part of who you are, but leave yourself space and time to explore new things you can identify yourself with. As a legend once said: ![]() |
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These considerations should also take into account team expectations. For example, in 2011 as a student, I put in 30+ hours a week. As a college mentor, there's no way I would've been able to do that. My team's typical mentor has a time input closer to 15 hours a week, which is comparable to a single additional class (albeit a difficult one). For me, that was very doable.
You can try to schedule extracurriculars around FRC mentoring. Many of these activities have seasons in similar ways to FRC. Look for design competitions with the main competition in the fall or early winter, or simply do more in the fall while stepping back in the winter. It should be possible to accomplish (I'm attempting this approach in the coming school year). For anyone, being a responsible college student and dedicated FRC mentor will require thought, organization, and expectation management, but I really think it's achievable for most committed FRC alumni. |
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Also, a ton of people at Kettering were on FIRST teams and many still mentor, so we enjoy going to competitions and watching webcasts together. |
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Hello all - This is a topic of particular interest to me because my career has been built around mentorship because of my experiences as a FRC student and later a mentor. I'm extremely proud of all my personal accomplishments and those of the teams I've mentored. There's nothing I would go back and change.
I think the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. If you are doing something that makes you happy and are able to maintain a healthy life then keep doing it. You're the best gauge of your own abilities and energy, so don't ignore yourself. It also doesn't hurt to listen to feedback from others. If subtle hints of business, health, or well-being related to what your doing become persistent from co-mentors, family, and friends you may want to listen. This is a tough topic because FIRST mentors are of the most passionate people who give back. Just do what you think is right. Nate |
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I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and I'm shifting my stance. While I think college should be your number one top priority in school and that is enough for one to sit back and think "hmm, maybe I should put this FIRST thing on the back burner for a second," I think that there is something equally as important to consider when debating whether to mentor in college or not.
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If you want to mentor in college, think of all the reasons why. To make this activity more meaningful, write them down. Don't sensor them, be honest. Did you come up with all your reasons? Write them down before you continue reading, because its only effective if you're honest and if you continue reading you won't be honest. Count them. Now throw that number away because it doesn't matter. Look at your reasons. How many of your reasons are reasons that only benefit/affect you. Is the reason "because I want to stay in FIRST"? That only affect you. Is the reason "It will be fun"? Cross off those reasons. How many reasons do you have left? ------------------------------ I'll do this activity: Why did I want to be a mentor when I was 18 (to the best of my memory): I wanted to still be in FIRST. I wanted to be a successful young mentor. I wanted to be important. I thought it would be fun. I wanted to say I started a team. I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too. I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong. I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls. Did I think about helping students, or wanting to inspire kids the way someone inspired me? Maybe. I don't remember. And honestly, I probably thought/said that because I had to. Not because it came to me naturally. Now lets cross them off. I wanted to be a successful young mentor. I wanted to be important. I thought it would be fun. I wanted to say I started a team. I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too. I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong. I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST ------------------------------ Only half a reason exists (and I crossed off half of it because I know part of it was self-serving). I had seven -yes I know I said that number doesn't matter- and only half a reason wasn't self-centered?* Mentoring, I've learned, is not about me (thanks Mom!). Its not about how I feel or what I'll gain from it. Its not about making me feel important or useful or letting me stay with FIRST. And most young kids who want to mentor say "because I liked FIRST and I want to stay in FIRST." Which has nothing to do with the students or their team, which is already the wrong reason to mentor. *I am being honest and laying myself out here. I highly recommend you be brutally honest with yourself. Additionally, I don't want flack about being weak-willed or selfish because I didn't sugar coat my thoughts. We all have some ugly in us. |
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^^ I agree with a lot of what Katie posted. Make sure you are in it for the right reasons.
The only reason I am an engineer now is because I joined a FIRST team. It put me right where I am now, graduated, working as an engineer. With that said, I mentor because it's really important for me to give back so that other kids can have the wonderful experience that I had. I mentored pretty much all through college. My first year I helped with my old team, then I mentored for 3 years at college helping with a new team. It can be a black hole of time. I did all mechanical stuff when I was in high school, I was one of those really dedicated-at the shop everyday- sort of kids. I knew that I wouldn't have all the time in the world in college to dedicate like I did before, so I chose to help with smaller projects. This may be a good alternative: if you are ok with helping out with the little things! I took on smaller roles like- teaching kids how to make bumpers and marketing and award proofreading. If you think you can control yourself from going overboard, ending up staying late at the shop everyday, and diving head first into full time mentoring, I encourage you to take a small role. Tell the team that your time is limited, and that you can't be around all the time but! that you would like to help out with A and B. Helping with bumpers, the playing field, or marketing are a few ideas. Yes school does come first, focus on that, get good grades (I know you've heard it all before!) Try other clubs. Focus on getting yourself settled in. If you want to help with one little project with your local team, do it. Just remind yourself not to get carried away. Stick to whatever small project you agreed to take on. If you find yourself taking on more roles, step back, delegate, and distance yourself back into your role of helping with the smaller things. Any knowledge you can teach and pass on is good, even small contributions help. It's like fundraising, even a $100 helps a team! If you can teach the students even a little, it helps them to grow and benefit from the program, so don't think you have to be the know-all-teach-all mentor. -Just some food for thought. If you read this all the way to the end, cool. I hope you take some advice and think about what you are doing, why you are doing it, and how it will affect you. |
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I do not recall if I've posted in this thread before but I'm going to put my experiences out there. I graduated high school and went to a state school about 2.5 hours away from home. I had set up my schedule so I did not have Friday classes during build season. My freshman year of college I still had a lot to learn about time management. I spent almost every weekend of build season back home (which with it being a census year it caused issues as my time was evenly divided between the dorm and my parents). After my freshman year I was asked to reevaluate my priorities and reapply in a year. This was by no means related to mentoring a FIRST team or volunteering with FIRST. This was due to me being on my own for the first time and experiencing new things.
I ended up moving back home and transferred my credits to a program that was set up more for non-traditional students. This meant I had night classes and still no classes on Fridays. For me working part time and volunteering/mentoring with FIRST this was the best place for me to be. It allowed me to effectively balance my schedule and set myself up for success. For me it wasn't my time commitment to FIRST that caused me issues my freshman year it was my immaturity, my being on my own for the first time, the opportunities for new experiences and trying new things both good and bad. Each person who will be graduating and going off into the "real world" needs to take time and look inward on what they want and what time they could realistically dedicate to a team. |
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I would love some advice on this - I am a senior in high school with graduation right around the corner, and I am still working out college plans. At the same time, I do not want to fall out of the FIRST community during college, as joining was the best thing ever to happen to me. I wouldn't know what I want my future to look like if I had never joined FIRST. It's incredibly important to me to stay actively involved, but I have come to the realisation that I need some help and advice on how best to do this while still working and getting through school with decent marks, without completely working myself to death.
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I mentor a team at UVA, and it definitely takes a lot of time. A good alternative to directly mentoring is staying in contact with your old team or volunteering at events. Feel free to PM me about how to reach a good balance between mentoring and studying, especially if you'll be in Charlottesville next year!
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In your free time, you can follow the season here, but I'd advise against mentoring a team as a college freshman outside of school breaks. If the end of your winter break is suitably timed, you might be able to do kickoff and perhaps week 1 with a team before going back to school. Once you've got your feet under you, you could consider doing more, but take it easy the first year. |
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My situation may be a unique case, but I don't think it has to be. When I graduated and moved on to college I founded a university level robotics team called Bison Robotics. The organization is made up of FIRST alum as well as people who regret not doing FIRST in high school.
Within Bison Robotics we participate in collegiate robotics competitions, as well as mentor/volunteer within FIRST. This year we've had 35 different members volunteer at at least 1 FRC event. As the person coordinating all of them (in correspondence with Minnesota's Volunteer Coordinator) I can say that there are little to no regrets on the part of the volunteers. They love it. Part of the reason we're able to volunteer is because we have a semi-established organization that allows students to be excused from their classes. We also build in support for students who miss class by working together, and learning from each other. A lesser number of us work with FRC teams (usually the team we graduated from) during the build season. It's a lot to manage, but nothing that a dedicated FIRST alum can't handle. As one of the people who does mentor from Bison Robotics, I can say that it has been a massively positive experience. Bison Robotics also participates in Ri3D which is another incredibly fun event. It really keeps you connected with the FIRST community, and your efforts inspire thousands. It's a really cool thing to be a part of. As I said, my situation may be unique, but it definitely doesn't have to be. If you're going to a university that has no robotics organization, I reccomend starting one. I am more than willing to help. Starting Bison Robotics was the greatest decision of my life and I have no regrets. *disclaimer: When we have a student who signs up to volunteer, and they come to the realization that it's too much, it's not a big deal at all. Being responsible and letting the volunteer coordinator know the situation asap is critical. |
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There is a good chance/rumoured confirmation that my high school will be starting an FRC team. It's kind of a complicated situation with that, but to nutshell it, I moved away from my old FRC team last March and the only FIRST team in and reasonably close to Roanoke was an FTC team, so I joined that. If my school starts a team, I definitely want to help them get on their feet, but, again, I will need help managing the schedule. I have a bad habit of overestimating my abilities and burning myself out. Any advice with my college plan would also be greatly appreciated. I have been considering possibly helping with the team as a FIRST Alumni, without being a completely devoted mentor. Would that be unreasonable? Thanks for the help. |
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Thank you much for the reply and help. |
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Thanks so much for the great advice. |
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If your school ends up starting a team, I'd suggest you act more as an alumni adviser instead of somebody leading it up, at least until you're more certain on how much free time you'll have. I've definitely been able to be more involved with 619 this year than I was last year now that I'm more settled in here. |
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Virginia Tech sponsors/mentors a team right in Blacksburg VA
GO HOKIES !!!!! |
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Again, I'm still working out college plans. It's going to depend largely on how things go between now and graduation, and of course whether or not I get accepted to attend VT. Even if I do, I may still choose to go to a community college - the one in my area has a great system where graduates from my county get free tuition, and they have a guaranteed admission to Virginia public universities program. (Did that sentence make sense? I think it did.) I would end up doing their guaranteed admission to Tech program and transfer to VT for my junior year. |
My son goes to VT, and loves it there. His course load doesn't allow him much in the way of free time, (vtcc) but did mentor on 4557 the first few days of this year before heading back to tech.
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If I could share my experiences for those that are thinking about it, I would advise against mentoring the team you were a student on. You will not be viewed as a mentor by your peers (neither the hs students or the other mentors) and will honestly not have the impact that you would have in another team. Everyone will know you as one of the team-members, and will continue to treat you as such.
I'd also recommend taking a year off to get started in the right direction, but if you must mentor, pick a new, local team that you have no prior affiliation with. If you want to go back to your old team once most of the students have cycled through, that should be fine. |
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As a general comment, I believe college students should always pick a non-academic activity to get involved in at school. It is the best way to meet others and be able to become more well rounded. FIRST is a good activity, especially if you can recruit other students to join you. Be sure however to decide what you can commit to. Remember that you don't need to be "all in" to still be helpful to a team. And even more importantly remember that you are no longer "doing" but rather "advising" or some flavor of that. That said, when I hear someone suggest dropping out entirely to focus solely on academics, I strongly object and feel that they don't have a truly realistic view of what you can do in college. This may be one of the most memorable periods of your life so enjoy it as best you can.
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As someone who is a current junior in college, and spent the first 2.5 years starting and running an FRC team, I'd recommend against it. FRC will be there when you graduate. There are so, so many things that won't be. Take college to experience the things that you will only have a chance to experience while you're in college.
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Our team feared this happening, and for returning alum that are wanting to mentor we started a mentor group that we called mini me's. That is they are shadowing the mentor in whatever mentor subset they want to perhaps move forward in, wether that be programming, business, build/design. We are still a young team and have gotten our first few alum back this year. The hope is to keep the interest, and involvement in first but without all the pressure of being a full on mentor. Plus let's face it there is a learning curve to being a mentor. I know I am still learning |
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My advice as a college mentor is to take a semester or two off from FIRST and learn how to manage your time in college. It is ok to volunteer and attend kickoff and competitions, but take some time to get your college routine under control. After a semester or two, if, and only if you feel as if you can manage your time mentoring a team and maintain your academics, start introducing yourself back into FRC. Personally, I started doing this by only attending meetings once every other week and doing most of my mentoring remotely via skype and giving feedback on documents posted to our team drive. Once you have mastered balancing this type of commitment, you can consider becoming more active as a mentor. As a second year now, I meet with my team once or twice a week and communicate with them almost daily on things that can be worked on remotely. The one thing that you have to keep in mind though, is that school should always come first! It is ok to miss a meeting if you have a big exam to study for or need to catch up on homework.
With all this being said though, I think that college mentors can be some of the most valuable mentors a team can have. College FRC alumni know how to relate with the students on the team because they have been in their shoes, and also have the experience to guide a team to success. Another added bonus is that college students don't really know what sleep is, so they can be at the shop during the late build nights when all the adults want to go and sleep. I know personally, there have been several occasions when my kids needed an adult at the shop because none of the parents could come, and I was able to sit at the shop on my laptop working on schoolwork while they worked on the robot. In summary, mentoring in college is incredibly rewarding but focus on yourself and getting adjusted to college before jumping back into FIRST. You probably will never be able to give the same time commitment you did while you were a team member in high school, but you can most definitely still make an impact on the team. |
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April,
I hope you can find an answer in all the responses. Let me talk as a senior mentor and parent for a little while. You have some issues that you need to prioritize. School and family come way before FIRST and other fun items. Take care of the important items first. You will be a great mentor if you can get your life straight and get the education you want to get. Then come back to FIRST when and if you can. Let it be a reward for your hard work at school. In your area, you could easily volunteer for a simple position if you can take time away from your studies. As you get your life organized, you might be able to take on more roles like mentoring a team or working with FLL. However, we all want you to develop the skills you need for the rest or your life. Don't let FIRST get in the way of life. Let FIRST be an extension of your life when you are able. It will be better for you and for the people you will work with. I would rather not see you for four or five years and know that your are being successful at school then to see you at every event and know you are struggling. |
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Long time no post fam.
Hope all is well with yours. I've been going through a lot of changes and challenges, but nothing that I haven't been prepared for. Which leads me to my point I like to remind people of: try expanding outside of FIRST in college. FIRST has set me up for some amazing things in my life, and those things have lead to even bigger and better things. Build upon what you have and move on. Come back when you are ready. Come back when there's something new to add. The magician Brian Brushwood posted a great story in 2009 of him talking to Teller of Penn & Teller in how to advance in the world of magic. Teller said this: Quote:
I came back to this topic and CD today for two reasons: some jerk named Conor Ryan posted something FIRST related on FB and I saw it. I was in Conor's wedding last year. And every day for the past decade I've talked daily to this thread's creator, DJ Fluck, someone I consider one of my closest and best friends. Last summer I took over chapter advisor duties for the Phi Kappa Psi colony at Kent State University. I wouldn't be in this position of molding young men and helping change that university if it wasn't for FIRST. Yet I also wouldn't have their respect, brotherhood, and love if I didn't leave FIRST. Yet I took six years between my graduating Dayton and mentoring a chapter; you do need time off. Please consider my advice. FIRST won't leave. I love everything I received from FIRST and everything I accomplished after I left. Please don't limit yourselves. |
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With regards to mentoring FIRST, I want to emphasize that I thoroughly enjoy mentoring my kids' FLL team and for FRC, but I don't really see college as a time to mentor - it's a time to learn. From my perspective, college presents [STEM] students with amazing opportunities to learn through projects that require them to grow as engineers and individuals, and that FIRST programs are a stepping stone to. Specific programs that I remember from college (most are still around) include: SAE Formula, SAE Baja, Bridge Building, Solar Decathalon, Solar Car, 1/4 Scale Tractor and 'High efficiency vehicle challenge'. I will reiterate... These are amazing opportunities that I would pick over FIRST mentoring in a heartbeat [while in college]. I personally benefitted from 4+ years on a Solar Car team, during which I put in 4,000+ hours learning and building, made 2/3 of my lifelong friends, consumed 1,200 gal of Mtn Dew (I wish I was joking), and made the connections that led to me being able to pick which job I wanted to take when I graduated. Not to mention... it is where I developed the skills that are worth mentoring others on. I would highly recommend this path to anyone! -Justin Playing With Fusion, Inc |
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