Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Now that the championships have past, I decided I want to share a story with everyone. The school years are winding down, graduating high school students are pumped up from their nationals experience are getting ready to go to college. First thought in their minds (most of the time) is that they want to listen to Dean and go get a team started at their college or university or joining one that is currently already in place.

Just a fair warning from someone who went through this first hand. Although it is very tempting, think carefully before you join. Mentoring is a serious commitment as you know. Many of your mentors spend hours and hours during the week sharing their knowledge with you. Jumping in that role right away could be overwhelming especially with college.

If you haven't figured it out yet, you soon will, college isn't high school. There are so many more factors involved. Most students live on their own, you have more freedom, the classes are more demanding, you have to know how to study. Temptations are there that weren't when you were in high school. With all this in mind, it might be a good idea to not be involved with a team your freshman year of college.

Why am I wasting my time making this point? Because, I am a victim of this. After a semester of mentoring, I ended up on Academic Probation and having to retake 2 classes that I took during the spring semester because I let mentoring take priority over class. I have spoken to many fellow college students who have ended up in a similar situation after mentoring.

Guess what? As much as you want it to be, it isn't. Getting that degree is the reason for going to college. Failing out of school because you mentored isn't really a good reason. In fact, there aren't many good reasons for failing out of school.

Don't get me wrong, there are many college mentors out there that can handle the workload. In fact, a friend of mine graduated from Purdue and took 21 credit hours one semester in addition to mentoring and still finished the semester with a better than 3.0 GPA. Some people can handle mentoring and class. I won't deny that.

So now that you've spent time reading and thinking about this, you yourself need to spend the time from when you finish reading this until the fall starts and teams have callout meetings thinking, "Am I ready to commit to something so time consuming? Do I have the work ethic, time management skills, and study skills to be able to handle this?"

If you are 110% sure you think you can handle mentoring and school, more power to you. If you have any doubt in your mind, take a year off. Volunteer at a local regional or championships, go to an off season event, and keep in contact with the numerous friends that you make through this organization. Mentoring is not worth failing out of college. As Ken Patton of the Huskie Brigade once told me, "Robotics will still be here after college. Just make sure you get that degree." Those words didn't mean much to me right away, but a few months down the road, they became very important to me and I am still living by them. My bad academic experience during my year of mentoring is most of the reason for my burnout and my hiatus from FIRST. Once I get that degree, so many options open up, and it will be a much easier way to transition myself back into FIRST.

Think about what I said. It could make a difference.

D.J. Fluck
Purdue University, Class of 2008

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

As a College mentor, I agree with this.

It is not wise for the baker to starve himself.

Remember that if you do provide your help to a team like I did, you are provideing what you can, if you provide too much, you will lose track of your future and eventually you will slide in your studies. I know too that Robotics has occationaly slid my grades a bit. So instead of attending robotics, I stayed and did my work and was an inseration for the students to make sure that they do their work, rather than spend all their time on the robot.

A college mentor's greatest gift for a team is the willingness to continue education and to show that there is a future for them all.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This is very important stuff--until FIRST opens its own college, you need to keep your grades up. (It'll open up far more opportunities.)

I'm lucky to be in a college with a reasonably flexible timeline. With some intelligent scheduling, I was able to take some of the harder classes in the fall of this year, while holding on to one or two easy courses for the spring, which helps take the load off at times. Don't let it completely rule your scheduling, but be smart if your college allows it. You will not want to be doing work for five hardcore, lots-of-small-assignments courses in the middle of build season.

That said, know yourself and know what's important. You have the rest of your days to help with FIRST--but only one relatively easy crack at college. (The rest, from what I read, are far more costly.)

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

For me, mentoring and my first year of college went great. I found the college clubs kind of dumb and thought FIRST was way better so I stuck with it and it was fun. And I didn't have any problem keeping my GPA high enough to get into an honor society. For my second year of college (this year) FIRST was a little more demanding and my school slid a little bit (I'll have to repeat diff eq.) but I believe I am still elegible for another (junior level) honor society. To me, school is kind of boring so sticking with FIRST was a good way to keep me from being bored. I think I'll stick with FIRST, however my involvment may become more limited (and it somewhat has already).

Recently, I have taken on the role of Construction Co-Chair and Webmaster for the Cal Poly Pomona Rose Float project so I'm quite busy in that.

For me, I can't spend my life listening to professors babble through equations full of greek letters then go home and struggle through books full of stuff that the professor was too lazy to mention. I can take it but I can't drown myself in it. There's got to be more for me. I've got to just go out and build something every once in a while. That's why I did and will continue to stick with FIRST. It is a nice break from boredom.

I will say this though: I have yet to find any extracurricular as good as or better than FIRST.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I agree whole heartily with everyone here. High school is different than college on many levels as DJ already stated. It has been an interesting first year in college for me. I've had a lot of ups and downs and wasn't able to really mentor a team like I wanted to. And I don't believe I will while I'm at USF. I'm involved in a lot of other activities and I'm the type of person that can't handle a million things and keep up with school. As usual for me I go way beyond that I can handle so FIRST and mentoring has to be put in the back burner. I miss it a lot, especially this year my first Championship event I missed since I've been in FIRST. I will though be trying to volunteer at some Regional Events and still work with the RCU. Other than that, I have to tear away from FIRST just to keep up my grades. FIRST has taught me a lot over the years. I'm continually amazed to met new people and see how FIRST has impacted so many lives. We have heroes that nobody understands. My friends laughed this past weekend when I told them to be quiet so I could watch a match and just said i was a nerd. And may be one but I'm proud of it. I'm sure that everyone won't forget what FIRST has brought them, it is simply hard to forget. But don't forget about grades because sadly they are important.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I agree with everyone. I saw my own academic level drop during the winter quarter because of robotics, and had to take time off the team. Academics always comes first, and don't try to take as much of a leading role in the team as you did in high school, it will only come back to haunt you later.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'm going to make this short and sweet. I love my team. I love my students. I love my mentors. But there is one reason that I always make Dean's List fall semester and not spring. I'll let you take that guess...

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

DJ et al,
I wholeheartedly agree. Your priority list should be school first, family and church second, anything else (including robots) third. I, as a mentor, would rather get an email from you saying "Hi, I am doing well in school" then to see you face to face, volunteering at a FIRST event and tell me you dropped out because robots were taking you away from school. You can come back stronger as a graduate mentor than a struggling student.
Academic probation is something you can come back from. It needs some hard work and dedication to detail, but you are already trained for that. Use the skills you have learned and get the job done! I can say "See you in four or five years" and be happy and sad at the same time. DJ, don't make me come down there!

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I agree that it can be difficult to balance mentorship with academics, and I do agree that academics should come first. It's a good idea, wherever you go, to take the first semester (or first year) to figure out your schedule and what you can handle before you get too involved in *anything* -- including clubs, sports, and FIRST.

However, that said, mentoring as a college student can be really rewarding. In engineering in particular, it gives you a lot of perspective. Engineering can sometimes be overly theory-based and it's easy to lose sight of what it truly is -- design, teamwork, fabrication, testing, all the fun stuff that FIRST taught us about. And it's incredibly valuable to be on the "teaching" side of the equation where you must truly understand something in order to explain it to someone else.

I go to an extremely challenging college where working hours are pretty much any time Outlook can send a meeting request for both students and professors and where committees, clubs, and classes easily eat up your time. But I (and other students) have made time for things like FIRST. It does require the sacrifice of some things (like social life, or like getting an A instead of a B+ on something), but it is doable without failing out -- because I have figured out my limits

Our group has found it particularly helpful to be working with a team with a very involved high school teacher (who can take care of the logistics of workspace, funding from the school, registration, and keeping the kids coming) and which, because it's an inner city school, *only* has open hours from 2-4 in the afternoon and, when we can argue it, some weekends. That means no all-nighters, no practically living in our lab, and that we all have to take a step back and remember that we have other things to do. Does it mean we can be one of the hardcore teams? No. But it doesn't mean that both the students and the mentors aren't learning, building important relationships, finding inspiration in engineering and science, and still fulfilling the FIRST vision.

You certainly can't have everything. You can, however, still have a valuable FIRST experience, and provide one for high school students in need of a little push toward the awesomeness of engineering.

<plug for Boston FIRST Regional> And if all else fails, volunteer at competition. :) That's a really important job, too, and it makes planning committees happy! </plug>

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Thanks for this post, DJ. Everyone in FIRST respects your experience as a TecknoKat. You'll be welcome on any team, any time.

But there's a whole 'nother level of respect that you'll earn when you get that Purdue degree. FIRSTers know that competitive robotics, especially as practiced by 45, is demanding -- but nearly everyone knows that Purdue graduates can think under pressure, solve tough problems, and complete difficult assignments.

This also applies to many other highly regarded colleges and universities, too many to mention them all here. (My degrees are from Georgia Tech.) All you other college students plug the name of your future alma mater into the above.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Another point to consider:

Taking a year off from being on a team can be a great decision. Although FIRST is a great program with many benefits for students and mentors alike, "burnout" can really make the season drag. I volunteered for a regional my freshman year of college and that was about it. The time away helped me establish what role I wanted to play in FIRST (and college) and allowed me to approach mentoring with a fresh perspective. The student-mentor transition is tough...the expectations are different as well as the responsibility levels. I would suggest taking some time off...odds are you will come back to FIRST with more enthusiasm than before and will be ready to take the next step.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I know exactly what you mean...

I came into college this year thinking that I had what it takes to do very well and school and still make a major commitment to the robotics team. I spent loads of time working with the team building the robot and going on trips. Now that the season is over, I find myself rushing to prepare for finals with just one week left in the school year.

Well, at least I can say that I am still passing my classes (barely). I do find myself saying 'Well, if i hadn't spent that all nighter with the team, I probably would have finished my homework.' or 'Maybe I should have studied more for my organic chemistry midterm instead of spending time helping students build the robot,' but despite those decisions, I am still barely making it by.

At this point, there isnt much I can do about my low GPA, but I can cosign to what all the others are saying in this thread...Think and plan before you commit

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Know your limits and stick by them. Absolutely agree that your study is most important so that extra activies should not get in the way of that. There are alot of temptations in college and a robotics team can be one of them. Just know your limits, figure out how much you can contribute and be confortable in that role. I was a college mentor yet only contributed five to fifteen hours a week. Yet I wasn't the go to guy, did what I could, and the team was happy with my involvement. I'm just trying to say that you can do FIRST and not dive head in as paradoxal as that may sound.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Everyone should listen to DJ. He has personal experience, as do I about how FIRST can impact your grades when you go on to college.

After my final year as a high school member on 229, I decided I would go to Clarkson where I would be able to still participate on the team. (believe me more was put into thought than just i wanted to be on the team. I had to make a lot of decisions concerning Clarkson and my other 2 top choices) However once the season started I never budgeted my time, and so ended up doing a lot more things for FIRST than I could handle along with doing well in school.

Short story is I ended up not doing so hot this semester. So for all of the people that are going on to college and starting or joining teams, remember that school should always come first. That is something i learned this year and i hope that it doesn't happen to any incoming freshman not only on our team but on everyone's team next year.

Good luck

Tim
Team 229
Clarkson University
Class of 2009

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

wow this is a touchy subject, and my post here may not be very popular

The purpose of FIRST is to team up engineering and science/technolgy professionals with HS students so they can get an idea what a career in that field will be like.

While you are in college you are not yet an engineer / professional / scientist... you are a student with no real-world (employment) experience

if you were on the FIRST team in HS, you were at the top of the ladder as a HS senior. While you are in college you are somewhere between HS student and professional mentor.

From my experience in college every hour devoted to classes and study and projects and lab assignments directly correlated to your grade for that course. The more time you spend on your studies, the higher your grade. When you graduate the primary factor your potential employers will look at is your QPA. Excuses and rationale for why you do not have a 4.0 average + 25¢ will get you a cup of coffee.

The logical conclusion is: FIRST motivated you to goto college. Do your best there, get the best grades you can, do the college level engineering projects and contests, get a job and a few years experience, THEN find the time to be a mentor to a FIRST team.

If you do decide to be a mentor while you are in college then accept the fact that you will not play a key role on the team. You are no longer a HS student, and you are not yet an engineer.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Wrong. My team (857) is comprised of one high school teacher, 7 college students and 17 high school students. As far as "engineers" go, the college students are all 857 has. We're supported by GM, Ford and DCX through Michigan Tech, yet have no professionals - in any capacity - to help us out. College mentors are key on 857 because without them, there would be one high school physics teacher and a bunch of high school students. Houghton doesn't have the engineering industry (and small businesses simply aren't interested - yet, we're working on it) to help us.

That said, DJ is 100% correct. I took a year off from FIRST - mostly because I was in the process of switching schools at semester last year - thinking, "Hey, I'll have some time to get my act together and then I can mentor." It was a nice thought, but my semester GPA will reflect that my act - as far as school is concerned - was far from together. While mentoring a team is a phenominal, rewarding experience, college is far too expensive to come out saying, "Well, I graduated with a 2.5 GPA ... but I mentored a FIRST team!"

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Quoted for truth. Do what you can to help your team, and never give anything but your all; but show your students you know what needs to come first.


-Stephen Yanczura
-Former Member 195, Southington, CT
-Current Mentor 1660, Harlem, NY

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

My high school team was mentored by Ohio State engineering students. They were some of the most inspirational people I've ever met. I still keep in touch with several of them now as they've gone on to PhDs, jobs, and so forth. They're very valuable connections and I really enjoyed the chance to get to know them and learn from them. Not being very far removed from the high school experience, they understood how we learned, how we worked, and could adjust their mentorship appropriately.

Also, if you talk to Woodie and Dean, they want nothing more than to figure out how to get more college students involved as mentors.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

After hearing many a story about slipping grades, burnout, and such, I decided to take a more laid back year with FIRST. I helped with Boilermaker Regional, and that was it. And I think it has proven to be a good choice, my 3.5 GPA is right about where I want to be for my freshman year and I have had more time to dedicate to school work. Though I'm not going into Engineering, the Computer Graphics Technology department at Purdue has given me more projects this year than I had throughout many years in high school. Regardless of your major, your first year of college is meant to test you and it will. Now that I've had a year off, I'm hoping to come back full force next season.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Ken,

I'd have to disagree with that statement. At Purdue, things are similar to MTU's ways. The college students play a very big role on each team (at least my team last year did, and Ive seen no evidence to prove it otherwise). The college students team up with 2 or 3 teachers from each high school with Purdue Faculty overseeing the students as a whole.

Sure there will be exceptions to this as every school is run differently.

If you come into a team at a limited role, or telling yourself you will only go 2 days a week, its very easy to let your guard down and those 2 days turn into 5, 6, or every day.

It's a tricky situation and everyone is different. I provided my story just to let people know the risks in addition to the many benefits of this program.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I shall be brief: as a student on a Purdue University team, I have found that my college mentors inspire me. No, they're not professional engineers. But hey, they know more than I do, and I suppose that is the key here isn't it?

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I said my post would not be popular, and several students have already complained.

If you have a FIRST team with only college students for mentors that is not the ideal situation. Its not what FIRST was intended to be, and its not in the best interests for the college student.

I would much rather have a person finish their degree and spend a few years gaining professional experience first, and then mentor a team, than to have a person be a mentor while they are in college and compromise their grades ( to any degree).

You only get one shot at college, but your career will last the rest of your life. If the promises of FIRST are real there will be plenty of engineers to come back and be mentors once they have their career started on the best footing possible.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I repeat: I have had conversations with both Woodie and Dean, personally, where they ask me (I'm about to finish college) how they can change FIRST to get more college students involved as mentors. I would be careful assuming what FIRST "intends" for teams.

Also, as a former student mentored by college students, I found that, compared to the teams I met at competition who were mentored by professional engineers, we had more chance to actually do the work on the robot. They also were less able to say "Well, we know this is bad, because of 20 years of experience, blah blah blah..." Sure, we messed up more, but I think we learned so much from it that it's worth it.

I would not presume to assert that one FIRST experience is better than the next. There exist successful teams without *any* mentors. And for that matter, "successful" is entirely relative. FIRST intends for students to be inspired -- that's what the acronym means. I was inspired by my college mentors. The mentorship fulfilled its purpose. What more do you want?

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Also -- I'm sorry to double-post -- I just went through three very successful job interview cycles resulting in three amazing offers. Two of the three were through FIRST contacts I've made in the last four years, while at college, in my mentor/volunteer capacity. One was through another connection, but, in all three of them, at some point during my interview the issue of teamwork, team leadership, and how to teach and explain things came up in one way or the other. My FIRST mentorship experience was perfect for answering those questions -- being a mentor is challenging, and going from student to mentor is a difficult but rewarding change. I believe there is a lot of benefit to the college mentors in this respect and it can in fact vastly improve the footing on which they begin their careers. It's a continuous cycle of inspiration, encouragement, and networking. It shouldn't have to stop just because you go to college.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This is the main point of FIRST. If you can't believe the acronym, what CAN you believe?

That said, we have two graduating seniors this year, and at least one plans to try and stay involved next year. I will point him to this thread so he sees the stories everyone has shared, but obviously it's up to him to know if he can handle it.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I really appreciate the college students who have time to help teams, but I have to agree that no commitments should be made that might interfere with school. Students, parents and scholarship sponsors are paying for you to concentrate on a degree, and deserve you holding up your part of the bargain. If you can volunteer without losing sight of priorities, great. Just don't make promises that you shouldn't keep.

That being said, I understand that things get in the way of schoolwork. FIRST is a lot better reason than mine or many students' to go on academic probation ;) . (Note: I also made the good Dean's list while at MTU)

Edit: My wife pointed out that priorities apply to all mentors. Jobs and families have to come first for everyone.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I was thinking about this last night (boy did this past Championship get me thinking!), and I have been debating for a while now about what I am interested in doing for FIRST when I move to Miami for college.

I have been thinking about waiting at least one year before getting involved in mentoring another FIRST team in the area. I certainly do not want to attempt to start a new team, because as a freshman, I know I will need time to adjust to my new environment and establish a living routine before I throw myself into such a time commitment.

However, I am seriously considering getting involved in starting a Lego League program at the Miccosukee Indian School - an elementary school on the local Indian reservation. A friend of my mother works there, and she told me that the technology teacher at that school is interested in incorporating Lego robotics into the curriculum. I am hoping that I will be able to help him with preparation of curriculum materials, and in the founding of a Lego League team if there is enough interest. However, founding a team there will be time intensive, and I am currently debating as to whether or not I want to get involved in doing that yet at this point.

I am quite sure, however, that I want to become involved in South Florida FIRST. There are probably a lot of organizational tasks that I can easily complete from my dorm room (paperwork, phone calls, etc.), and I am very interested in brainstorming more ideas to make the organization more effective and far reaching.

And of course, I am interested in volunteering at the Florida Regional and next year's Championship, as well as helping with the organization of Mission Mayhem, the off season competition in Ft. Lauderdale.

I figure that if I try to limit myself to things which can be done easily without having to spend a great deal of time off campus, I will be able to balance homework and my job. Volunteer work and brainstorming/paperwork for South Florida FIRST will hopefully be manageable for me. As for the Lego League program, perhaps I can serve as an adviser for the time being, and only mentor FLL and FRC teams when I am positive that I have the time and energy to do so.

-- Jaine

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I thought about mentoring when I came to college. Then I started working, joining a sorority, a community group, and just hanging out. To be honest, I'm glad I'm not mentoring a team. WPI's term system basically leaves C Term parallel to the build season. I can not afford to lose my scholarship by devoting too much time to FIRST instead of classes.

I enjoy volunteering. Volunteering is a great way to allow yourself to still be involved in FIRST. FIRST constantly needs volunteers for events. You see a different side of the events. You get to see how the FIRST magic is made. You don't have to worry about the team or team drama.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Attention all Seniors thinking of mentoring, THINK before you decide to ACT!

If you decide to mentor, you are asking for a lot of time to be taken out of your schedule. It is very demanding and you will not have a social life, well maybe but who knows. During the fall semester, reality step in and I was not doing that well. However, my fellow mentors (high school teachers) agree that I could take some time off and get hit my studies once again. Currently I am still mentoring 204 and possibly looking into mentoring another NJ team this summer, but who knows. Remember you or your family or F.A is paying for the college education and you need to keep up with your studies and do the homework. Mentoring is not for the faint of heart and should be decided among-est yourself and your family members first. I suggest that you take the freshman year off and volunteer at FIRST event or off-season competitions. After freshman year, if you feel that you can do it, then mentor a team.

Also, on another note, DO NOT START YOUR OWN TEAM AT YOUR UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE. If you decided to do this, you will fail and not succeed at college. Trust me, I have talked to many college mentors who have done this and now are paying for the repress icons because of it.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

::waves:: I started my own team. Then again, I'm in the first ever class at a brand new school -- we had to start *everything*. I did wait until my sophomore year, so I had a good sense of my limits, time management, and so forth. Time management is an important skill to learn. I didn't do many other clubs or organizations, but I did have time for FIRST. And I have a halfway decent GPA!

You know what you're capable of. The above post is right: think before you act. But taking risks is sometimes a good thing.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Interesting discussion on a very different topic. It actually varies from person to person or situation to situation. As far as my own opinion goes, i think its a good thing to mentor teams. Especially when your own success is through that team. In case of Team 612, we had no college mentors until this year. Chris Thai came back to help us out because he saw the lack of mentor ship in our team (we have only 2 mentors), and also he was inspired how FIRST has changed his life and can change the life of other people.

And now moving on, as it changed my life (scholarships, cool job and recognition), I'll definitely come back to help out my team. But it is true that my existence as a Student at an University counts first then mentoring a FIRST team.
As people have said before, make your own decision; it only requires a common sense.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

D.J. > You started a great thread here, and I think your point was for college students to make a careful decision, and not to debate the merits of the value of a college student as a mentor.

For your point, I think you are right on. As a college student, you need to first be a college student. You are there to learn, to grow, to mature. The college expereince is a unique one and won't be like any other time in your life.

If you can maintain your grades and sanity and enjoy some of the college life, AND be a mentor, by all means go for it. if you can't, maybe volunteering for a kick-off event, or at a Regional or the Championship is a better option. OR, maybe just cheering while watching webcasts is the best choice.

As a potential employer for some of you, I can tell you that the first screen you have to pass just to get an interview is GPA. If the grades aren't there, regardless of why not, you probably won't get an interview slot at many companies. Fair? Maybe, Maybe not, but there as to be some type of a screening process up front. After top grades, then you have to get through the interview process, then, the extra activities you were a part of will be looked at.

You won't get hired because you were a FIRST mentor but had terrible grades and did not learn anything, but you might get hired if you have great academic performance, a good interview, and some service / volunteer activities while you were in school.

And at the end of the day, I would hope at least part of the reason you are in college is to be abe to get a great job when you finish.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I get the sense that some college students feel they owe something to their HS FIRST team, or to FIRST in general, and that they have to give something back.

So much energy and life-force has been focused on giving you the opportunity to attend college. I cannot over emphasize giving you. You cannot possibly know the sacrifices that people make to support our university system, the personal sacrifices your parents and loved-ones make, and even the people who served as mentors to inspire you to go to college.

This is the one time in your life to put your own interests first, to be a little self-ish, and to get everything you can out of those 4 or 5 years.

College is all about you! You should not feel guilty about that, because in the big picture what is best for you now is best for society in the long run. If you co-op with an important company and end up working for them, if you start your own business while you are in school, if you do very well and are sponsored by a professor to stay on and get your masters or doctorate degree - the more energy you focus on your own career in college the better you will do in the end.

And then when you want to give something back to FIRST, or to your community, or to humanity in general, the more you have achieved the more you will have to give back.

As others have said, there are many FIRST related things you can volunteer for while you are in college, helping out with regionals, tasks that will only take a few days of your time, without committing yourself to 20 hours a week for 8 weeks as a team mentor.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I think the most important sentence in this paragraph is not the first, but the second. You don't know what your role will be - that will depend on the organization of the team you join.

However, it cannot be stated too emphatically: YOU ARE NO LONGER A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. You cannot expect to be just another one of the kids. For one thing, you are probably an adult (at least you're over 18, maturity aside) and the kids are not. That alone creates a legal difference in your status - remember that in your relationships and interactions with teams.

If it's your former team that you're considering mentoring - reconsider it very intently. Those kids that are juniors and your friends this year are supposed to be the team leaders next year. If you come back and your mere presence being there usurps that role from them, you will have failed as a mentor. A person who shows up twice during the build season, and then accompanies the team to a competition, isn't a mentor - he's an alumnus. Figure out what your role should and will be before committing - talk it over with the coaches.

Don't offer to mentor just because "you can't let it go". There are many great experiences we have in life that cannot be recreated, no matter how hard we try. We have to accept that we can't go back, we can never relive the wonderful moments we have had. We can make great new memories - just make sure you're getting into mentoring for that reason, not to try to extend your current experiences.

The suggestion to volunteer at an event is wonderful. It will be a short-term high-time commitment, rather than a long-term high-time commitment. Many college students can arrange their schedules for a weekend without undue effects on their grades - as long as you don't skip exams or other important class sessions!

Whatever you decide to do, make sure it will be positive, both for you personally and for the team. Don't let your grades suffer because of it - if you have to restrict your participation to once or twice a week, so be it, I'm sure the team will accept your limited role if they are aware of it from the beginning.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Second that: FIRST team alumni (IMO) make the best volunteers. If you'll be a college student in the same geographic region as your high-school FIRST team, it is likely that you've already met someone who can help you get started as a volunteer, maybe a mentor on your team or another team, or a regional committee member.

Team experience can make it easier to understand how your volunteer role fits into the overall success of a FIRST event. You may also have some detailed knowledge such as the rules, the kit of parts, event logistics, or a good network of people you've met at previous events that will make you especially useful as a volunteer.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I have to disagree with this statement. All 4 of the college mentors on our team 1902 (whom we would not exsist without) were offered jobs at the FLA regional just on the basis of what they had helped accomplish.

I know when my "college boys" signed on they had no intention of being quite so involved. We really didnt have any other "professionals" But when the team builds in your garage what choice do you have (THANKS DAN)

But we as a team made the effort to make sure that we respected the need for the mentors to study. In fact there were nights that as team mom I sent one or two of them home to make sure projects were done. They also set the standard for the high schoolers as to how to manage robotics and studies ( and a little bit of social life as well)

You do need to set your own limits and no one knows that better than you. But I love my college guys and I am so glad they helped build the most fun rookie team ever

OINK OINK BOOM

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I tend to agree with you...I've been debating whether or not to try and start a team myself, but then as I read all these posts I realize that it may be a better idea to start working with a team rather than begin a new one. A team with only college mentors may not be a good idea because you're balancing what is almost two full time jobs. Starting a new team IS like a fulltime job (so is college)...even during build season it becomes veryyyyyy strenuous. But you guys know that already :D

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This is a great thread and all students that are considering continuing their involvement with FIRST while in college should take a look at it - but they need to evaluate themselves to know for sure what they can do. Some can handle it, some cannot. When I look back at the things I have done with FIRST while in college, its a hard list for me to believe. The fact that I have kept up a 3.5+ GPA is even more of a miracle. I have had a blast doing it, but if I knew what all I would be doing before I did it, I cannot say for sure that I would have done it.

Time management is key. If you are going to be an integral part of a team, you need to make sure that your schedule can handle it. Block off time for everything EXCEPT robots and other extracurricular activities first, and then see what you have time for. I have no problem admitting that my TV time currently consists of one hour a day as I go to bed and no video games anymore. My Chiefdelphi time is significantly reduced too :ahh:

One thing is for sure though - if I had NOT done what I have done while in college, the last 4 years would have been VERY boring. Getting a good education is great...its extremely important...but I think most businesses look for what else you have done. Most of the businesses that MSOE students apply at do not even look at grades. I cannot guess how common that is, however.

One final thing: don't be afraid to try it and fail.
"Success often comes from taking a misstep in the right direction." - Anonymous

Kev

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This is my finial year on my team as a student and I understand what you are all saying. That is why I am going to go through my first semester without helping my team that much. That way I can be confident by the end of that semester if I then choose to help out my team. Besides I think my team will understand if I choose to not really help them out that much. And I am sure everyone else's team will understand that also coming from their team members. Because they will understand you if you education is really keeping you away from helping the team. But I do not think they will understand if you start mentoring them, putting killer hours in on your part and you end up taking summer classes. No, that in my opinion is not the way to go. Me I think I will just help out my team whenever I feel comfortable enough to the point my grades will not suffer.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I have to agree with you. Sometimes you need to get away from the stress of school and just take a break so you don't end up going nuts.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This is a pretty interesting thread and brings up the generations old dilemma a lot of post-High School people suffer through. The I'm-18-but-I-am-still-a-kid transition period. I remember around this time in my life suffering through the same things. It is really difficult to switch from being part of the gang to being an outsider. Even worse, as a Senior everyone is telling you how great you are, giving you scholarships, giving you awards, making you out to be some sort of super hero. Then you graduate. You move into the next phase of your life, whether it be college, military, or whatever and you find out not many people are all the impressed with you any more. It is natural to return back to the scene of glory and try to recapture the magic. But it's never the same, it's never as great as you remember. The key is to recognize this and figure out what your new role as a "grown up" is.

Reminds me of Bruce Springsteen's song 'Glory Days'

Changing sub-topic: This year we were fortunate to have several University of Houston engineering students help with our team. We are still feeling our way through this relationship, because it didn't quite work out to our satisfaction this year. They planned on coming only on Fridays and Saturdays, so as to minimize the impact on their studies, which is reasonable enough. However, they got their feelings hurt when design ideas that they had one week weren't implemented the following week. We tried to explain to them that during a frantic 6 week build period, a LOT of changes can take place over 7 days and that without continued involvement, their ideas might not make it.

So what I am going to try and do for next year is to meet with the Engineering department deans and see if the UH students could get some credit for participating in FIRST. One thing that sort of amazed me was that a lot of engineering students don't have the foggiest idea of how to build anything. FIRST mentoring is a fantastic opportunity to gain first (not a pun) hand experience on planning and building. PLUS if they are receiving college credit for their participation (sort of an independent study model), they can logically devote more time to a FIRST team without impacting their grades negatively.

Problems with the idea: Engineering schools usually have a pretty strict curriculum that needs to be followed to graduate in time (4 years). The rigidity of the curriculum may make implementing a credit course for FIRST mentoring difficult. Even if the engineering school administration seems amenable to the idea, it may take quite a bit of time before it becomes available to the students.

So, to you college mentors out there, if you could receive 1 or 2 credit hours for working with a FIRST team, wouldn't this help? It might be worth a try. Maybe if ONE engineering school out there were to allow it, it would be easier to convince other schools to follow suit.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

My mentors were from Ohio State, and they got credit. I'm not sure exactly how it worked, but if you contact their engineering department, I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you how it all fits together. They have VERY active FIRST mentorship with several teams and they're very successful.

My college just does it as a community service project -- the time commitment we can manage for that fits up rather well with the particular school we mentor.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I can't help but agree with many of the points made in this thread about time management, grades, and staying in school. It is important, and in my first year in college while starting a new team at a new school (<2 yrs in existance) I did not do well I will admit (I failed a course, and got a D in my first two semesters). Would I have done the exact same thing knowing that my grades were poor and I put myself in a bad situation with my school and family? In a heartbeat. It was more than rewarding to see the student's lives I have had some kind of impact on and to pass on an opportunity that was afforded to me.

I guess my point is not to pat myself on the back here, but rather to share my experience of it looking bad for a long time. Now all that being said I don't agree that this is some kind of scary thing that all students cannot possibly handle. It is possible, I know because I know a lot of people that keep showing up every year (StudManDan, George1902, RogerR, etc etc) despite it being a juggling act. The key is that this is an exercise in balance and time management.

Anything is going to be too much if you overdo it and forget about the rest that is why this is such a balancing act and should be thought of as such. Are there people that go to college and overdo a co-op or internship opportunity? Yes. Are there people that go to college and overdo partying? You bet. Are there people that overdo and study too much and don't realize the college experience they are missing? ABSOLUTELY.

To get to the point grades are important, but they aren't the only thing in college and learning the skill in college of how to balance what is and isn't important in your life is an important one that will serve you throughout your life.

I don't like the thought that this is so insurmountable that you cannot in any terms pull off FIRST, a job, on campus student organization involvement, or something else. You can, it just takes a realization that it will not be easy. Being "selfish" is good in some respects, but sometimes through these kinds of threads students can become intimidated to get their feet wet in the FIRST college environment and end up doing nothing but paying lip service to FIRST.

Don't, I repeat, don't miss out on your college experience by sitting in your room and studying 24/7 because putting yourself in a bubble is not how the world works. It is OK to fail, it is OK to make mistakes, but just try to regulate it and not give up.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

What about those of us post-college mentors? Isn't mentoring a team sort of like having two full-time jobs where my other full-time job is -- you know -- a full-time job?

(P.S. Having a full-time job is more time consuming than going to college. Trust me on this.)

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I have to say that Ken nailed it for me here. My goal in starting 229 was to inspire just one student the way I had been inspired. As I said I got that and SOO much more...

There are definitely two sides to this coin. I like how DJ suggests taking a year off to figure things out. I dove headfirst into FIRST and not only was in FIRST but started a team my freshman year of college. I spent a TON of time over the summer planning it out, scrawling papers of ideas, typing up agendas, etc. I ran a pretty good preseason my freshman year, got everyone involved, we had a great time, and my GPA was a 3.5!! Not bad? I was also on the varsity ski team, and did i mention I only slept 3-4 hours a night? I was soon to find out this couldnt hold. My second semester, I lived and breathed FIRST. I scrambled to keep up with my studies, clawing every step of the way. The only thing that probably saved me was that finals were nearly three months after our last event. I got a 3.0 that semester. The next semester, Clarkson threw more at me, in the way of grades and the team. They werent happy with our performance the last year and got a bunch of MBA students to run the team... I had to do twice the work. That and my best friend having a baby nearly broke me... I ended up with a 2.7 GPA that semester. I nearly got kicked out of the honors program...

By then I started to realize my priorities, I had to let FIRST take a bit of a backseat (though I still mentored for the next two years) while I painfully clawed my way back up to a 3.25. I finally had to take my senior year off for fear of burnout and not being able to get all my coursework done, plus all the job interviews and everything else... so I chose to just volunteer. I ended up with a 3.3 and a very rewarding college experience.

That said, would I change anything? I dont think so. The struggles I went through made me who I am today. Made me able to keep up with 1511, taught me more than I could ever have learned about leadership, and even more about time management. I loved my college FIRST experience, and its probably why I had so many job offers (even more than any of the 4.0 students I knew), but it is NOT something to be taken lightly. It is NOT like your high school team, and it is NOT easy.

So with one side being to consider your college studies first, the second side is to grow to be all you can be. The best is likely a combination of both. Take your year off, but then give it all you have... even if thats only two years. Engineering companies LOVE well rounded students, they are looking for the leaders of tomorrow... but if FIRST only produces kids that are dedicated to FIRST... we wont have much of an impact on the world. We need to produce engineers first, FIRST mentors second.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I think everyone should keep talking.
There is a lot be learned, gained, explored.

There's nothing that has been set in stone for 100 years anywhere in any aspect of FIRST. It is still growing and developing in many areas. This is just one. It's all good.

And congratulations to everyone for being so committed to helping this growth. Also, I can't help but say this, congratulations to all of you young women who are seriously trying to figure out how to juggle your course load, your college transition, and FIRST. That's incredible.

I actually weigh in on the side of college first, help with the competitions and off season and come back strong in a few years but that is my conservative opinion only.
Jane

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I agree with whats being said about being careful with getting involved with a team when you get to college. I just finished my second year at Northeastern and have been on the Nutrons for both years. To go to college and do FIRST is a huge time commitment. Keeping up with classes during the build is tough and requires a lot of scheduling to do it and keep up your grades.

I would just like to say though that being involved in FIRST may help your grades too. Joining the team you will work with other college students some of them will be upperclassmen or the same level as you. The upperclassmen have been where you are and know what its like. They can help you with your classes, homework, how the professors are and what they are like. Use them as a resource. If you have a problem with they homework assignment ask them. They have done it before and can usually assist with most of it.

I know that this past build I stayed after the meetings were finished to help with some physics homework and help them understand how it worked so they would be prepared for the quiz. When I was a freshmen I had some C++ projects that I needed to do and I had the programmer on the team help me debug the program when I couldn't find the problem.

If you join a team while your in college no one says you have to be the person that does everything and becomes over committed. If you just do what you can even if its only a little then its greatly appreciated. Be open minded when going in if its an established team. Its not always going to be like it was back in high school for you. Use the resources of the team to get the help in classes and the other experienced members will help you along the way.

I would say get involved even if its only on a small scale. Make sure you grades don't suffer and take that help and assistance the team can offer you. We've been where you are now and know what its like so if you ask I'm sure we can find an answer to most of your problems. So don't always think that if you stay away from the team it will be the best because it will allow you to spend more time on your school work but if you manage your time and use the assistance/experience of the upperclassmen on the team you will be able to excel in your classes as well and have some fun in FIRST.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

A lot of excellent points in this thread. However, I hesitate to tell everyone not to try and start a team or be involved with a team in college. Had I not started a team as a Freshman in college, there is no way I would be where I am today. That experience taught me a lot at many different levels and provided me with even more opportunities later in college and into the working world.

However!
- Put learning first. Make sure you maintain an above average GPA and understand what you are learning and why you are learning it (the second part is equally important). If you are doing FIRST and it is getting in the way of your learning or your health (e.g. no sleep or too much stress), take a break.
- Make sure you're doing it for the right reason. I don't need to tell anyone here what the purpose of FIRST is, but it is easy to forget that you are a mentor. Every now and then I see a college-based team full of college students giddy about building a robot and having the best drive system, while the high school students are hardly involved at all. Remember: if there is not one or more high school students by your side and actively contributing, then you are not being a mentor. I have seen some great college student mentors, but it is rare. More often than not, it seems college students still act like they are in high school when they are involved with first. It took me some time to learn this myself and I was probably far too "hands on" during certain periods of time.
- If you are going to start a team, starting a team has to be your dream and you absolutely need to be convinced that it is what you want. Are you "eating, sleeping, dreaming with that one thing on your mind?" If not, then starting a team is probably not for you. If you do decide to start a team, remember, it is a TEAM. Concentrate on finding the right people to comprise your team, get them excited, and let the team take it's own shape. Remember, your only at college for four years, you're paying a lot to go there, and there is an awful lot college has to offer. It is a horrible mistake to be so caught up in FIRST that four years of college pass you by before you realize the world outside of FIRST. Nothing made me happier than to see the team I had started grow and flourish during my last two years at college, while I had reduced my involvement in the team to 3-4 hours per week.


In summary:
- Don't start a team, unless you are sure it's what you want to do, and you can keep an eye on yourself. If it's hurting classes or your college experience, it's time to stop and hand off the efforts to someone else. Remember, nobody will want to hire you if you have a bad GPA. If you maintain a GPA well above average, you will probably have no trouble finding a job. If on top of that you can have FIRST experience or other project experience, you will be in very good shape. A bad GPA and a lot of experience will absolutely not get you your dream job and will not get you into grad school.
- If you are going to be a mentor, same advice applies, but make sure you're being a mentor and not a high school student.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I definitely agree that being a college FIRST mentor is an exercise in time management. My freshman year, I handled this pretty poorly, skipped classes, and ended up with my first C ever. That semester pretty took a big chunk out of my GPA, and I've spent every semester since trying to recover from it. That being said, the last 2 years, I've managed to get a 3.5 and a 3.8, while putting in a lot more time in FIRST than I did as a freshman. I basically sacrificed any vague resemblance of a social life, but, I did what I needed to so I could excel in school and mentor my team.

My biggest advice to anyone considering being a college mentor, though: don't expect it to be another 4 years of high school FIRST. I tried that for one year with my old high school team, and it was an unmitigated disaster. After switching to a team closer to school, I was able to start fresh, in a new role. I realized that it was no longer my job to do everything on the robot, but rather to pass on what I learned to the students. Realizing that I now had a team of high school students who looked up to me, respected me, and learned from me was one of the most rewarding feelings ever. It's a completely different experience, but one of great value, if you realize and accept that new role.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Personally, mentoring has opened up many opportunities for me throughout college. However, my situation may be a little different. I am a FIRST Scholar Award winner and as such my school likes me and even encourages me to participate in more events. As long as I invite the professors along and bring several robotics teams out to the school, they are fine with me devoting a tremendous amount of hours to FIRST and allow me to fly over all of the country. I have found that if you get your school involved and make a note of what you are doing, while keeping your studies in mind, the school will support you. Throughout the process I have also used the engineers as tutors to help me out in my academics as well :D

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

There are two very different and confusing messages here (I think maybe you have not yet come to terms with your own college FIRST experience?).

Have people started taking the opportunity to attend college for granted? Is college nothing but grades 13-16 now?

My grandparents came to the US from Germany when they were 18, and I was the first person in my family to attend college and get a degree (ever, as far back as I can trace my family tree).

When you are in college your degree, your career, should be the thing you are living and breathing, not FIRST!

When you graduate and either work for a company, or start you own business, then you will have so many people available if you want to be a FIRST mentor. Most engineers dont sit on the phone calling airlines and bus companies to get the best rates for travel, the company travel coordinator takes care of those things. You dont have to connect with schools to set up the details of the company / school interaction, you have your companies public relations people do all that stuff. You dont have to run around like a headless chicken buying drill bits and bolts and wire - you req then from company stock.

This is the thing that most college students are not aware of - when you are an engineer you will have a corporate structure behind you and you can hand off or delegate so many things to other people to make your FIRST mentoring far more easy, and productive, without sacrificing your career.

I know we always feel that FIRST cannot get along without me - if I dont mentor or start a team, or lead a team this year then nobody else will. It takes a little bit of faith, FIRST can get along without you for 4 or 5 years, in fact FIRST will be better off if you give yourself the time you need to really get your career off on a solid foundation before you come back and be a mentor.

You can definitely still volunteer - There are many tasks in FIRST that need to be done that are not as glamorous as being a team founder or mentor, but they are just as important.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

You're right, In a certain sense I have never fully come to terms with my college FIRST experience. I would be wrong to say that my experience was all positive in the long run. It was a great experience for me in a many, many ways and led to countless opportunities, and I am now at a great job working on a very cool project. But I also did go overboard at some points. I think the lesson learned for me was to draw a line to differentiate dreams and ambition from blind dreams and ambition. Whenever you are pursuing a dream or a goal, it is always critical to keep it real and keep a clear perspective on yourself and how your ambitions are affecting you and your future.

If you can't keep a good balance between your ambitions and the academic portion of your college education, then you need to have the foresight to see that you are headed down a bad path. But if you can keep a good balance, all the power to you.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Personally, I wouldn't blame repeating diff. eq. entirely on FIRST: math gets exponentially harder once you move out of the realm of stuff that's intuitive from physics and into the realm of pure math. I saw a similar slide in my grades: I usually have no problem getting A+'s in math classes, but in diff. eq. I barely got an A-. I take it as a grim foreboding of my future math classes.

Hear, hear! Leave the math to the math majors and focus on what you enjoy. College should be an enjoyable experience whichever way you do it.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I can see that burnout would be an issue for FIRSTers who have spent all of high school doing robotics. However, I'm a high school senior on a rookie team, and I feel like I'm just getting started with FIRST, so I can't really see myself taking a break next year. I'm not sure whether that's a good decision. Anyone else in a similar situation?

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'm guessing Olin College encouraged you to mentor a FIRST team, rather than worrying about how it would affect your grades. With their vision, you will learn a lot from experience that you can't learn in a classroom. My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

While what you've said is true, there is one fact that continues to ring true throughout this entire thread. College/university will get you a degree, FIRST will not

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

For the most part I completely agree with the sentiment being expressed in this thread. I can't speak from personal experience of being a college mentor, but I can definitely say that becoming a college mentor is a big decision. I was extremely close to joining Purdue's FIRST program, I had gone through everything required to become a member and the decision was down to me. After looking at what my course load for the second semester would be (19 hours) and other commitments I already had, I made the difficult decision to pass on joining as a college mentor. Looking back at my first year I do not regret this decision one bit. I never would have been able to get the excellent GPA I have, enjoy the social aspect of college, and make the commitments to the student organization I am in had I joined the FIRST program at Purdue. I am not trying to discourage anyone from doing this, I just want to enforce what has already been said about thinking carefully before you act. There are times where I did miss FIRST, especially towards the end of the second semester where I had a strong urge to build something, but just did not have the time to do anything about that.

Above all that, here is what I feel the important part of my message is. There are other things besides FIRST out there. Stepping out of your shell and trying new things is part of what college is. Purdue, like many other schools, has an extremely large number of student organizations on campus (700+). These can range from engineering related clubs such as Solar Racing, Formula and Baja SAE, all the way to things that are a bit more out of the ordinary like an impromptu comedy club or a wine appreciation society (for those of you of age). When you get to whatever college or university you are attending there will be TONS of callouts. Find a few that interest you besides FIRST and go to the callout. Who knows, you might find something you can be just as, if not more, passionate about.

Kevin Dieterle
Purdue University class of 2009.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? :ahh: I would put a :D but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the :ahh:

Long live FIRST :)

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Working as an engineer for a couple of years after you finish your undergraduate degree will also teach you more about engineering than you ever learned in college. College is mostly about teaching you to learn independently. The most efficient way to do that is through challenges with deadlines attached. Any of several challenging extracurricular projects you can get involved with while still in college will accomplish that, too; based on some of your posts here, you seem to be taking good advantage of such opportunities now, sanddrag.

FIRST is an even better way to learn how to learn independently, because FIRSTers start younger.
Roger that.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

quote]Originally Posted by aaronm_k
My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.[\quote]

you learn different things on a FIRST team than you do in college. FIRST is not an engineering crash course, its an engineering exposure experience.

If you attend a college with a 5 year coop program then you will also get the practical hands-on, real project (schedule, budget, tradeoffs, resources....) experience that only comes from being on a real project.

When you graduate from a 4 or 5 year engineering university in most cases you would start working for a corporation as a junior engineer, and they would not expect you to function 100% independantly on a major project.

Engineering is a career of continuous learning, acquiring new skills, and growth.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

That's definitely true, but to really get anywhere in some instances, you probably need to scrape up the money to get your Master's or your Ph.D. (I don't know what the situation for Bioengineering majors will be.)

I have not posted anything recently, but I will post about this. My alma mater team has offered me a mentorship position. The advisor is probably asking me the same thing. But I have to tell him and those who want me to mentor--I'm in college right now. I don't know when or if I'll come back because my academics take full priority. I don't know my current transcript, but based on my assignments so far, I think I'm doing pretty well.

I'm ironically on an engineering project with another FIRST alum (from Team 007) and we both are taking our experiences to the project. But it seems like everyone else is on our page (which means either other FIRST alumni or people who are just that way). Apparently all the squabbling and disorganization that typified my team's activities seem to be gone (but we aren't at the storming phase yet.)

I am at a college that has been supportive of FIRST for a number of years. It once sponsored Team 53 before it collapsed (for any oldtimers, 53 was once a dominant team from nearby Greenbelt that suddenly seemed to fold last year.) I think the team was eventually switched from UM's MechE to a Gemstone team with not a lot of money to deal with.

I am not about to drive that hour drive right now to the team. I would see the regional on webcast and keep touch on the boards and give some advice, but Engineering takes so much time.

If you do mentor in college, do it somehow discreetly so that you can still do well and have a social life. If not, you should still stay in touch to pull the team through.

Steve Graff, University of Maryland c/o 2010

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'll try to keep this short & sweet:
(on my fifth and final year of undergraduate engineering now :) )

-Before doing FIRST during college; ask yourself "how will FIRST help me accomplish my career/life goals?"
-Pick the ONE aspect of FIRST that will MOST help you gain a competitive edge in your career/life goals (mentoring, design, machining, writing, project management, procurement, fund raising, leadership, etc...)
-Make sure that ONE aspect is a lot less involved than what you think you could handle.
-Do that one aspect well.

You may change that one aspect from year to year, according to how your career/life goals change, but what I found out in college is:

FIRST can help you advance your skills & knowledge base.
FIRST can help you discover your own interests & expertise.
FIRST can lead you to job offers.
FIRST can make you stressed out beyond belief and distract you from classes!

So basically, if you must do FIRST (and I do recommend staying involved), do one small thing, do it WELL (people will notice that), and spend the rest of your time concentrating on classes.


The ONLY reason I did so much with FIRST during my undergraduate career is because I was working at internships between the months of January-June for 2004, 2005, & 2006. Had I been involved with classes during the winter months I would have accomplished far less.

All in all... if you're obsessed with FIRST, do an internship during build season :D .

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37819

This may also help you!

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Well, it is now May 2007 and we have a whole new group of college students who made the decision to mentor or not mentor a team, and a whole new group of high school seniors who are contemplating what they should do.

I am curious to hear the stories.

Personally, I would recommend taking at least one year off from a team committment between high school and college. Why?

It will help you re-gain perspective of FIRST. Being a student on a team is way different from being a mentor. Let the memories of your senior year continue. It is really tough to not fall into the high schooler mode.

There is so much college has to offer. Clubs, activities, new friends, professors, plays, concerts, and on and on. These next four (or maybe five) years will be the most unique experience you will have. You can't go back later - it can't be the same. FIRST will be here in a few years - ready for your return.

You need to focus on your academics. That is why you are there. :)

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Personally, at this stage of my career, I would not mentor a team if I was attending college, even if it was 2 classes a week. I would offer support on the weekend during build season ( probably manning the grill:) ) but would be very conservative of my time during the week. Granted, I work full-time and classes would be on a part-time basis.

Colleges and professors only care about academic performance. Thats what they are paid to do and that is also what you or your parents are paying for. Volunteering is a noble deed, but don't lose sight of the goal in front of you. FIRST doesn't offer scholarships for 'Best Mentor'.

If you are in college, keep your eye on the prize, help when you can, and look forward to the day when you can mentor yourself through the eyes of a prodigy. You will be rewarded in due time, and enjoy the experience better when you have better monetary resources available to you to make an impact.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I have found that mentoring in the fall is much more effective for me than mentoring during build season.

1) Fall mentoring has no 6 week deadline, so you don't feel so bad missing a session or two to ensure you pass classes.

2) It is much easier to ask an uninitiated fellow college student to teach a single session in a topic in their major than it is to ask them to join during build season. It is actually a rather effective mentor recruiting tool.

3) I firmly believe that many mentors are counter productive during build season. I refuse to do much beyond ensuring the HS student's safety and wellbeing during the build season. From my own HS experience, I know that an overzealous mentor can quickly ruin a student's self esteem with a momentary "I'll do it for you" attitude.

Also, recruit as many low-commitment people as you can. Everyone who graduated high school is qualified to be a low-commitment mentor. Try and get the people who claim to know nothing of anything: they are best at supporting students without squashing them. Ask them to come "once or twice" during build season, and space them out. This has two primary benefits. The first is that each low-commitment mentor allows a core mentor to focus on school better. The second is that each low-commitment mentor will ask a student to explain what is going on, and this explanatory process is where the students usually learn the most about their robot. Olin only has engineering students, so I usually try to grab the Bio-Es for this.

Remember, it is not your job to build a robot. It is your job to act as a glorifeied hybrid safety monitor / white board.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I too am a college mentor, and I won't lie. I got distracted from my schooling when Robotics season rolled around. I didn't take a break between my Senior Year's season and my Freshman in college's season, and to be honest, I'm not too regretful. Luckily, I was able to keep up well enough in school to not let it get to me too much. ^_^

I love mentoring and it keeps me busy during the winter when all school does is stress me out. I find mentoring to hep me relax and keep my mind off of things. Now, I just need to work on no letting it keep my mind off of such things for too long. Then it can be dangerous ^^;;

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I am among the college students who chose not to mentor this year. I knew going in that my class load would be tremendous, and that I would want to participate in other clubs and try new things. I did not lose touch with FIRST friends because of my year off - rather, I had more time to dedicate to phone conversations, to talking, to getting to know great friends even more. I attended no events between IRI 2006 & IRI 2007 - even though BMR is in my home town - I spent spring break on a backpacking trip with my school outing club instead.

I spoke to fellow college student Joey Gannon about this at IRI - but I will say it again - going back to FIRST after a year of vacation made me remember everything I loved, everything I cherished, and inspired me to maintain robotics as a potential priority in the future. I missed it, I won't lie. However, I have a great GPA, awesome friends, a rewarding research job, and many opportunities for the years to come.

To all of you new college students, good luck. Whatever decision you make, I hope all goes well for you, and that you enjoy and grow from this new found independence you will have. If you do mentor FIRST, be an asset to your team, but know that your students will admire you all the more if you set an example and finish your own homework. If you don't mentor, and find a void there, fill it with lovely memories with splendid new friends. You owe it to yourself to enjoy college.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I did not get involved in FIRST officially until my Junior year of College. I am the Public Relations Coordinator for Purdue FIRST Programs and it is a very rewarding experience. I encourage anyone else to contiue mentoring while in college.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

More on my last post, there is way more to do with FIRST in college than just mentor FRC teams. There are also mentors for FLL, FTC (or VEX). Just because FRC was a major time commitment in high school, doesn't mean that you have to spend all day and night working with an FRC team. Many of us work with fundraising, public relations, and planning for the Regionals we put on. There is a lot of different stuff to do and it all helps kids interested in FIRST.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Yeah I myself have thought about mentoring a team when i go out to Ferris State University next year, but I am not so sure if i will have time and i dont think there are any teams close to big rapids.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This deserves a bump, and frankly, I think no freshman in college should mentor a team at all. Do something different, try new things, get away from FIRST. There aren't many things I believe in, but this is one of them I do 100%.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

This is a pretty heavy topic.

In one of the first posts, someone made a comment on advice they received from Ken Patton. I received similar advice from 148 mentor JVN (who, for those of you who aren't aware, is famous for his college mentoring experience) - "College is a great time. I would recommend it as 3 priorities: schoolwork (keeping up, etc), the 'college experience' (friends, social clubs, dorm life, etc), and then maybe FIRST. It's extremely easy to let FIRST overcome the first two, and it's important to keep things in line." It's a motif I plan to keep central in my coming years; I know the schoolwork is no cakewalk, but I would love to lend my abilities to an up and coming FRC team.

Now on Voshol's point about volunteering, I wholeheartedly agree. I volunteered at MARC over the summer and it was a ton of fun, working with the coordinators and such almost made it feel like we were our own team (as corny as this sounds), overcoming problems and trying to make everything run smoothly. With the new "district" system in Michigan I'm hoping there will be an event closer to MTU, but if not I may try and volunteer at one of the other events or even the State Final. I 100% recommend it to any graduated senior looking to stay involved and up-to-date with FIRST but without the time commitment of a team.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

As many of my mentors (not just from my current of past team) have told me, School>Robots, FIRST will be there in four years for you to come back to. Sure, it might be hard to deal with, but I know if my grades dip at all, I will "yoink" myself off the team.

Like Weis said, it is very rewarding. I would not take back being on 1646 last year for anything, it was awesome. In the end just do what is right to get through school with a good degree.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

So here is a question: What about college freshmen that have never heard of FIRST before; should they also be given the same advice?

As with everything there are two sides to this argument, but I think that they have more to gain from their early college involvement and less at risk of being over involved than a just graduated FIRSTer.

Speaking from firsthand experience college freshman also have less to contribute to the mentoring efforts (in the short term) and being so close in age to the HS students can create other difficulties. However college seniors with no FIRST experience also seem to pose the exact same issues and they won't be around to be grow into helpful mentors for the next season.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Joe, we believe so strongly in this that we do not allow a graduate to become a mentor his first year after leaving the team. Even after that first year they are going to have to work hard to convince us to be a mentor.

Occasional visit, a little tutoring, volunteer to help for an event or fund raising are all OK. But be a mentor and all that entails is not allowed.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Hands down yes, though it's more about DJ's post of work load and "welcome to college!" than my "grow as a person" montra. FIRST is foremost a high school organization (I'm talking FRC); when you are in college you should focus on more college level activies. DJ's right about the work load, and I'm adding on that working with college students and competing with college students in different competitions than FIRST is more rewarding in many more ways than just mentoring a FIRST team. For those already in the program, it's about taking time off to transition into a new life and purpose, and for those who are just hearing about FIRST, it's about the time committment and the activites.

And to shoot this down, yes FIRST does have college level activies in it, and I think mentoring is a worthwhile thing, but I would never recomend a freshman mentor a FIRST team over joining Mini Baja, cement cannoe, and other college level experiences. Be around people your own age and work with them late at night on campus, what not. Have a college experience.

Again, I'm not saying college mentors are wrong, they're bad, anti-social, or what not. You go away to college to be in college, not in high school. I've considered mentoring my junior year and decided not to because of this, I will have decades of mentoring ahead of me when I graduate and work on a more professional and adult level, plus my new found skills can be brought in, ones that I don't see myself (and thus, as a warning to others) getting through FIRST right in college.

Why am I passonate about this? Because I made the mistake too (just like DJ) and wanted to relive high school instead of embracing what's infront of me. FIRST is a program; not a life style, not a cult. I go to FIRST competitions because I enjoy competitions, and it was part of something I enjoyed in high school and I have many friends still in the organization. I guess FIRSTcast was my outlet for reliving, and that's why we didn't put any really out this past year, and I won't be involved with it this year (surprise Jeff!)

*jumps off soap box and realizes the irony of still posting on CD and the whole "embracing waht's infront of you" comment*

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Mentoring in college I think we can all agree is a decision not to be taken lightly, and I agree that the very cautious advice primarily being giving in this thread is wise. Even if you can handle mentoring as a freshman(or even senior), taking a break will probably be in the long run just as rewarding.

Starting and running a team in college has been very difficult but very rewarding for me, and in hindsight I'm pretty glad it took me two years to get the support inline after I got to school. I hesitate to discuss my grades and I only mention this to establish the level of negative effect on my classes and give a data point to potential college mentors. While my grades could have been higher I graduated (BSEE) with several honors and was offered a full fellowship for graduate school. It can be done but you have to be really dedicated and willing to accept some compromises in your life, generally good advice for anything you really want to do anyway.

Every team, school, and student is different, but at Texas Tech University FIRST is run entirely by college students (and some professors) like mini baja, cement canoe, etc. only we actually get stuff done, accept freshmen, create a strong interdisciplinary team and offer course credit or scholarships to many mentors. We also offer the "full college experience"... We build way late into the night on campus, have a couch for sleeping, and have some pretty crazy "mentor only" parties.

We like freshmen to come and help out when they can, but typically no more that 10-15 hours/week during build. The time commitment and focus on classes is easier to enforce on a non-FIRST graduate which is why I asked the original question. We look at FIRST as a great college retention and recruiting tool. By keeping freshman involved with other upperclassmen and graduate students they can build a support structure during the sometimes rocky transition to college. We all can help each other with projects, and even have team study breaks during the build season.

I have done a number of industry co-ops and as part of my degree program survived 5 design labs plus several design classes and I'm still sure that what I've learned through running a FIRST program exceeds the vast majority of that, maybe even combined. A lot of awesome job opportunities and wonderful people have come into my life in college because of my (cult?) interest in the program. It's not for everyone, but it can really work for some people.

All this being said I agree it is very important at point you decide to become a mentor to be doing it for the right reasons and with the right priorities in your life, not to relive HS, but to be looking for that next level of experience while being committed to getting the grades you need.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Berkeley is on the semester system....

Whatever shall I do the last three weeks of winter break? :D

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

If your free and it's close, a great way to help FIRST is to volunteer for a FIRST regional.

While mentoring is a great way to help one team, perhaps you want to make a bigger impact with FIRST by starting a club in your college that could provide seminars to many teams. ;)

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

As a Junior, I'm just starting to really worry about college, but I know one thing for sure: There is no way I am going to give up FIRST. One of the main criteria I have while looking for a school is if they have a connection to FIRST or not. I know that I'm going to have a rough time mentoring and having college, but it can't possibly be any worse than the 12 hours days I'm pulling now. I may have to not go through college with my current 3.9 GPA, but I'm positive the benefits to both myself and the team I'm mentoring will make up for it.

I can't think of going any period of time, yet alone the 4-8 years I'm going to be in college, without FIRST in my life. I'm probably not the only one with this attitude, and I think that is what is driving many of the current college mentors to put themselves through the trials and tribulations of basically having two full time jobs and not getting paid for either.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

As a college sophomore, I bring an interesting perspective. Let me note, there isn't a FIRST team, period, within at least a couple of hours driving time, though there is some interest in having one. Yet, there are 3 FIRST alumni/mentor types at my college.

For the three of us, one is not very involved at this time, at least from what I can see. One mentors a team from here, as I did last year (though I had a longer distance...). As for myself, I confine myself to using CD as my primary means of getting my "FIRST fix", though I did volunteer at a regional over spring break.

FIRST should not be your primary criterion for choosing a college. FIRST is an added bonus. And as for whether or not it'll be worse than 12-hour days, it will be. Maybe not your freshman year, but your sophomore year, if you're an engineering student, is the worst. I'm taking 14 credits (that's 42 hours per week, roughly) and I'm having "fun" getting the work done. My previous years, I took more credits and had fewer problems getting work in. Trust me, it'll be bad.

Instead of FIRST, how about this: keep your ties to FIRST and volunteer during breaks while finding another competition in college. There are plenty of them; I know that my college has 12 competition teams in one group, with many more that aren't as recognized. More are being added.

So go ahead, find something new and different. Branch out a bit. Do College VEX, maybe. Keep your ties to FIRST strong, and when you graduate, come back with more knowledge and help a team.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

For this one, I got to agree with Erich. You really got to consider the college as a whole. As for the involvement with FIRST, you can definitely stay involved regardless of where you go. Whether it is doing like Eric and keeping track on CD or doing what I do(find a team that happens to be nearby) you will have the choice of involvement. Besides, freshmen year is relatively easy if you are a good student and don't become obsessed with partying or anything of the sort. Also, I find it great to pop in on my old team everytime I get a break from school. It's nice to see the familiar faces.

I would definitely suggest a cut back on the level of involvement with FIRST for college. You will not have as much time to do everything you do now. Just checking up on a team once a week and offering a bit of help is a lot of fun and keeps your mind sharp. Being at all the team meetings and having a heavy hand in the design/work, will just lead to undo stress and lower grades. Remember, some candy is good...too much gives you a stomach ache. The same goes with work. I really do enjoy working. But too much just gives me a headache and leaves me exhausted.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Ben,
I have to agree with the with Eric & Jason. I know that First is a big part of your life right now and it seems hard to imagine anything without it being part of your daily activity. However, just like other outside interests, it is not the end all of our existence. A wise man once said, "get a job doing something you love and you will never work a day in your life". Plan on your career and college choice to achieve that goal and other things will fall into place on their own. If First is part of that, great. If it is not, there are worse things in life. We are here to prepare you for college and life, not to make you a life long Firster. You will make us proud no matter what path you choose.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I told myself the same thing back in fall of 2005. Now I am here and this will probably be my last season with a team for a while until I set my life straight. I am one of those college students who put FIRST before everything.

I hope my post helps you understand how you should make your decision about being involved in FIRST while in college. Throughout the years, I have skipped classes to be in the machine shop (of course I had to stay up nights to make up for school but it's not easy to do so). I have always talked to my professors about being involved in FIRST and they were supportive of it. I have also taken semesters off so I can make some money and be involved with FIRST.

Of course, you can be involved and go to school at the same time; but I would highly suggest to not to be involved 100%. If I could change back anything in the last 4 years; it would be to only work on events I have organized and volunteer at the events.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I will offer up something that I haven't really seen much of in this thread... that college FIRST programs, when well organized, can actually help you in many ways.

Purdue FIRST Programs has given me some of the best friends, memories, and study buddies I could ever ask for. I think the key is that it is well organized, with professor support and a structure that allows you to find the area you fit in best.

As a freshman in college you will be overwhelmed with choices, I know I was. I would encourage you to go beyond FIRST... I am in Purdue FIRST Programs but I am also a member of a sorority and a member of SWE. But if you can't imagine your life without FIRST you don't have to.

I will echo the comments above--choose a college. If it has a FIRST Program, great. If it doesn't, that's great too. There are so many ways to stay involved, from volunteering at an event over your spring break to being an active member of the CD community.

IF, however, you end up at one of the few colleges that have established FIRST programs, I highly recommend it. My friends from Purdue FIRST are friends I know I will have the rest of my life. Many of us are in Engineering, and we get together and work on homework. There are always older members of the organization who have taken a class you're in, and they can be a treasure trove of information for you.

You will have 20 hour days, you will have all nighters. It does get harder, especially if you pursue an engineering degree. Whatever you choose to do, get involved on campus. Join a club relating to your major so that you can make friends who care about academics. Join a club that doesn't relate to your major so that you can be well rounded. Whatever you do, LOVE it.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

At least wait until kickoff day to get involved, ideally sit out your entire Freshman year.

You won't miss much, you can still volunteer at a regional, etc...

You really should get a grasp on what college is before you make a decision like this.

I'd try to explain better in a long post, but you'll see yourself and believe that more than anything we say.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

My experience is that 20 hour days and all nighters stem from too many curriculum. Honestly, it will be hard. But if you play your cards right, there is no need for this much work. That is of course, if you don't want to. I have friends that can't sleep before a test and pull long hours. However, I work 20 hours a week have about 15 credit hours and still manage to get about 7 hours of sleep and a 3.7 GPA.

PS: I am the first to admit that the number one thing missing on my resume is extracurriculars.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

AMEN
yea im a graduating senior.. and the juniors and other advisors are asking whos gonna come back..

its pressuring to come back bc you wanna instill that enthusiasm you had into those underclassmen who are gonna take over the team.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

Let me start off by saying I think it's really important to step back your freshman year. College is a completely new experience and don't count out everything it has to offer until you've given it a good hard look. You might find a particular group or club that takes your interest, other than FIRST :ahh:

My Freshman year was one of the best years of my life, and I didn't work in a shop all build season. Didn't scour over the rules. Didn't check CD every five minutes. I did something different, and had a blast.

This sophomore year has been a completely different story. I got in contact with the local FIRST team and started going to their weekly meetings in the fall. It was a lot of fun just getting acquainted with a new team that had such a different student group than my old team had. After doing some (minimal) training and (trying) to get sponsors, the build season rolled around.

This is the only part I regret. I only missed one meeting. The whole 6 weeks. The team met 4 days a week, and I was there every time. Luckily my grades didn't drop, I managed to hold a 3.5, but a lot of the stuff I enjoyed freshman year seemed to drift away. Simply put, I was too involved, and while the robot might have been ever so slightly better because of it, I was not.

I was also a member of the regional planning committee for the Davis regional. If this sounds like the straw that breaks the camels back, it surprisingly was not. I had a great time tele-conferencing in once a month, and then helping the event run smoothly last week. I was the regionals media contact, and was interviewed by at least 10 different news outlets. It was a blast! The low time commitment up to the date of the regional was great for my schedule, and I was still able to play an important role for the event.

After this year's competition has ended, I have a new focus, a goal you could say. I only want to come in once a week during build season next year. My goal is to transfer I as much of my experience to these kids as possible in the next 9 months, so they'll be on autopilot during the build season, with the skills required to get the job done. Its gonna be tough, but in some ways I view these 9 months as my new build season, building up the next generation of engineers... [/cheesy]

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

You have already instilled enthusiasm in the underclassmen who will take over the leadership and direction of the team. The team will find a way and adjust to change. You have done your job as a student leader.

The students who graduate and move on into life after high school, take on a new role and that is as a role model of possibilities, opportunities, and facing new challenges. It is a shift away from the role as a senior on the team, sometimes very subtle but very powerful.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I also am coming from a different place than a lot of you. I am attending community college, to save money by living at home. This particular community college has very little to do Extra extracurricular.

I have started helping my old first team but because i have a job that works almost weeknight i cannot help much but on the weekends or occasionally if i get out early i will go help. Instead i have found a different role on the team that many of the mentors who work a regular first shift day cannot do. I have been picking up materials and parts, and also occasionally dropping them off to get machining. This has brought me back and helping my team in a new and in some cases more important way.

The fact is I have very little actual designing and building experience that cannot be provided to the team by another mentor. (although i would take extensive time absorbing other teams designs at competition, so i can bring back ideas from other teams from previous years, that other mentors cannot recall) But instead i took the one difference that i had over the other mentors, and am using it to provide for the team in a completely different way than our team has ever had.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

While in the army and college I'll do my best to find a nearby team and drop by a couple of times to help. I'm thinking that I will be more of a programming/team&project mangment mentor, because I believe those are the areas I touched most in FIRST and will probablly continue in college.
Oh, and training the drive-team too. :)

First year in the army I probablly won't have a lot of free time so I'll do volunteering work for the competition (tech support, field reset, or if given, referee).

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

As a freshman in college now, I know I don't have much to support whether or not it is a good choice to mentor but I can give my 2 cents on how I made my decision and where I stand today.

I, am still a part of FIRST, I'm not a head mentor nor just a volunteer. I chose to join the FIRST program provided by my university.There is no doubt that everyone who has posted on this thread like D.J., Genia, and Joe have very very important things to consider when deciding whether or not to mentor, and quite honestly I read this thread more than twice and even started a thread with questions regarding FIRST after high school. It depends on what is right for you, but don't forget that college is a whole different ballpark coming out of high school. Even after reading threads, talking to friends who are alumni, and convincing myself that college is going to be a lot harder (more so as a first year engineering student), I was still shocked at how stressed I was getting in my first semester.

Like Lauren said, there are colleges that have FIRST programs. In fact some may also offer classes that count as college credit just as the Purdue FIRST program does. My first thoughts when I found out that there was a class offered for FIRST; I thought, "Cool, I can stay involved in FIRST and it'll be a class that counts for a couple credits." Which to me was a wonderful thing. If a college does have a FIRST program take Lauren's post and realize that it will be just as fulfilling if not more as it was in HS and can help you out in the future through connections made on a larger scale.

If however there is no program and you're looking for a local team to put under your wing, please please please weigh out your pros and cons and don't go easy on yourself on the cons section just because you love FIRST. We all love FIRST and every senior who leaves the shop for the last time feels like they're leaving a bit of their lives behind. But but just as many said, you dont have to mentor to stay involved. When you need your fill, go and volunteer when it lands on your break, go to kickoff with your old team when you're home for the winter, go on chiefdelphi, and use gameday.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

One thing I do find interesting is the number of Purdue FIRST mentors that have posted here, I believe this speaks well for their program. While I will agree that joining an established program such as PFP is easier than going out on your own, there is still plenty of stress and work involved. One of the largest benefits of an established program, as stated by others is ME 297F, a class offered to FIRST members at Purdue which as an MET major I was able to use for credit toward my degree. I joined PFP when I was a sophomore in college after taking my freshman year to enjoy and adjust to college. I have made some lifelong friends as a college mentor. Here is my hindsight of 2 years mentoring while trying to balance college.

In 2006, one of the Purdue teams was just starting out, even with super stars like Flo that season to help us out, a group of 8 college mentors burned themselves completely out on FIRST only I returned the following year, since then only one other mentor has returned. After a lot of soul searching, I decided to return for that second year with none of my fellow mentors though some great new mentors joined the team that year. I took on a very large role due to lack of a teacher sponsor and everything suffered, while I had found the balance and was able to maintain my GPA that was about it. I was so incredibly stressed out that year and slept so little my body was a wreck by the end of that season. One of the wisest decisions I ever made in both my college and FIRST career was to take my senior year of college off from FIRST and only volunteer at a regional over spring break. I don’t regret my decision to be a college mentor especially when I watched my college team this year win EI at BMR, just the look on their faces and hearing about their best season ever makes me proud.

The kids I mentored as a college student are now seniors in high school and have to make their own decisions this year. Some I believe are up to the challenge of mentoring while others are not, I believe in each of them that they will make the right choice for them.

To all high school seniors and college students looking at mentoring; it is worth all the blood, sweat, and tears but remember you and your future comes first. If you do decided to mentor make sure that you have support and never be afraid to ask for help; that was my biggest mistake trying to do too much myself. Keep in mind that a night off from build season to study for an exam probably won’t mean that the robot doesn’t get done but it could very well be that key night that gets you an A on that test that opens the gateway to your future.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'm going to college next year after two years in FIRST. I currently plan on mentoring the team, since I played a large part in this season and I don't know who we'll have on the team next year. I hope I can train some people over the summer to do the jobs I performed this year, and I'm confident in the resiliency of the team, which is why I'm going to mentor over the summer and over my Christmas break, then go to the Saturday portion of the Buckeye regional -- mentoring won't interfere with my class work, as much as I want it to.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'm back.....

FIRST is a program, an ok program with it's own problems and rewards. And it sounds like your in a relationship with it like a girl. Ever heard of the saying "Everything changes in college" or the concept you NEVER want to go to the same school as your girlfriend? Same thing applies.

Plus, do you love FIRST unconditionally, or do you love your team, the friendships, or other things you can get from other college appropriate programs?

And to throw this in, I know quite a bit about the Purdue FIRST program, and while well laid out, it isn't full of faults and it's own problems. This thread starter was part of Purdue FIRST when he got into problems. And others have done the same. It's more like sun screen, it's protective, but not preventative. Don't sit in the sun too long and ignore your school work or social life.

As for me? Well I'm at my co-op again and resting some and got caught up in the FIRST History thread and decided to pop my head in here....

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

As a high school student, I served as my team's captain-manager, pit captain, and lead mechanical and design student (among other roles). I'm currently a freshman mechanical engineering major at Penn State's Schreyer Honors College, and I made the choice to mentor for FIRST in the 2010 season. Not just any team either, but my high school team, which is just over a 7 hour round-trip bus ride every weekend.

I read this thread as a high school senior, and at the time thought 'you know, I should probably take freshman year off from FIRST'. When push came to shove though, I came back. I haven't decided whether it was the best choice, but I certainly don't regret it. By our second and last regional, I'll have logged something like 330 hours and 4,000 miles (not to mention more money than I'd like to calculate on bus tickets). I admit it's certainly limited my extracurricular college experience this term--I've spent a grand total of 1 weekend on campus since mid-December. It also hasn't made studying any easier, especially with 1.5xs the minimum credit load this term (19 semester hours, 13 of them honors; minimum 12). I'm managing to maintain about a 3.9 though, and still take off Fridays for regionals. It's not easy and it might even be a mistake, but--for now, to me--it's worth it.

I don't recommend this course. Not because I don't enjoy or value it (obviously), but because I think the people who truly want and can handle it will do it themselves without any recommendation (I know I did). In my experience, this is something everyone needs to decide for themselves, but realize that academics have to come first. FIRST mentoring won't pay the bills.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'm reviving this to remind 2010 graduates that they should think twice and recognize the change from high school to college.

Re: Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor
 

I'm only an a lower class student, but it's OK that you don't have to come every weekend. 1529 had a college student, but he was rarely here, due to homework, etc.

It doesn't matter whenever you're here all the time, you're still contributing to the team anyway.