IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Has anyone else noticed that the OI and RC as well as the breaker panel and some other stuff are no longer available for the rest of the year from IFI? Now that the official season is over, what are teams that need replacements for off season events to do? Does this possibly indicate a new major upgrade or replacement for the IFI Control System for 2007? Does anyone have any inside information on what IFI has in the works? I am keeping my fingers crossed for USB joystick ports in addition to the old style 15 pin DOS joystick ports. Maybe at least 2 of each would be nice.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I would hope that this means there will be a new RC, the last time it was out of stock it was just before this build season. I personally don't deal with the programming aspect of our team, but I do fully understand the RC and the restrictions our development team faced when they were writing the code. Its kind of ironic that now the next Lego RCX has more features than the one on the FRC robots. At least USB functionality would be ideal though because serial cable is becoming a very old way of communication.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

An integrated USB port for some of the serial ports (program, dashboard, etc.) would be pretty awesome. USB joysticks are a little tricky, what with drivers and all--plus, how will folks wire up their custom controls?

One thing that would make me positively giddy would be a nice breakout box for the joystick ports, something in the vein of 116.

Alternatively, to rip a page out of 68's playbook, what about swapping out the three-pin Molex connectors for something like Cat5 cable? The wires inside are the right gauge, everything locks into place, the cable is cheap and crimpers are plentiful. I'd gladly take the weight penalty to use it.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

If the RC is being reconfigured for next year, I wouldn't doubt seeing a jump to a linux based solution, much like the AdamBots Delta Force Co processor project.

I would love to see onboard support for things like bluetooth and removable memory. Sure we can use the EEPROM, but its still not really efficient. You still need terminal software and a good knowledge of software to get anything working. Also, in order to change auto mode the robot must be on.

Team 217 had an amazing set up in their pits in Atl. I dont want to go into details so they can release it themselves.. but let's just say it solves all these problems and can be integrated into the existing RC solution.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of built in wireless networking on the RC? Think of the game possibilities if the robots could actually communicate with each other and coordinate their actions. Wouldn't it be neat to have a game with LONGER autonomous where all the robots cooperate autonomously to complete some task before the human drivers take control.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I noticed their setup a few times walking by. I finally had time to stop and talk to someone about it and snap a few pictures, all I have to say is very, very cool. I hope one of their team members jumps in here and elaborates, I can post the picture of the setup if anyone wants.


-Chris

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Someone needs to give some details!!

If IFI does make updates/changes I hope/suggest they update the power supply to OR the 12 volt supply with the backup battery. The external backup battery circuit seems unnecessary when a few diodes would take care of it and the battery being required for servos is annoying (we got nailed at nationals and lost the backup battery mount... and our camera went with it... almost no points for us that match).

[PS - I think IFI does a GREAT job and overall I am very happy with their products and support.]

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I assume a bunch of RJ-45 (8-pole CAT-5 style) connectors is what you mean, as a replacement for the PWM connections? They're quite a bit more expensive than those .025" square headers, and unsure how we'd use an 8 pole connector to replace some 3-pin connections (8/3=non-integer).

But, nevertheless, I implore IFI to consider either a different PWM connection system or, if the de-facto standard remains necessary, then some kind of adapter gizmo to a more robust connection system, or at the very least some kind of positive connector retention system (like a plastic locking bar) for those pesky PWM cables.

Don

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Actually, there is a very good reason for the backup battery. If you put a lot of draw on the 12v battery, it's voltage can drop very low. If it drops too low, the RC loses power, shuts off, and then reinitializes when it powers back up. The backup battery keeps this from happening, so even if your motors die a little, you won't have a few seconds of being dead on the field.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

That is what I meant. You'd only use three of the pins off the wire (unless IFI starts using some built-in feedback like some folks keep raving about). The cables themselves are cheap--compare $20 for a four-pack of PWM cables from IFI with $10 for 10 at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16812105302). (As a bonus, the students using them for sensors can whack them in half and get two for one.)

Granted, they cost more to IFI, but I'd imagine that switching to the RJ-45 connectors would cut down on repair calls because a PWM cable got yanked the wrong way and bent/tore off the pins. (Every time I disconnect those things, I cringe a little bit in fear.) If you keep the service calls down, it makes the teams happy (their RC stays problem-free) and probably makes IFI happy (as it frees up manpower, even if the teams are footing the bill for their services).

At least that's my take on it.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

It's not surprising that the OI/RC are out of stock until next season. These are high priced items. If I was at IFI, I wouldn't want to keep too many in stock for post season. The same thing happened with CIMs last year and the Vex Field this year. Once the main competition season is over, you don't have much demand for these expensive items. So why stock them? I'm sure if a team really needed an RC or OI IFI would have one.

As far as development goes, that would be another reason not to stock OI/RCs post season. If IFI changes interfaces or components, like a new PIC, it would make any models in stock obsolete unless it were a simple retrofit.

These are simply good business practices, not a clue to changes afoot.

With that said, IFI has always worked to improve these systems as technology improved or deficiencies have been found. The new PIC and more memory on this year's RC were in direct response to at least one team who ran out of memory and processing horsepower last season. :ahh:

As for new technologies, the April IEEE Spectrum magazine had an article on wireless USB. Unfortunately, the IEEE committee working on standards for IEEE 802.15.3a ultrawideband (UWB) couldn't agree on a standard, so it looks like the competing technologies will launch soon and the market will have to sort it out.

Just think someday... wireless USB joysticks, wireless victors and spikes oh my! :cool:

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Worse, you could lose all robot control for the rest of the match (if your batteries are in atrocious contition). It happened at least once before the backup was introduced in 2004. The team I know of it happening to was jamming the E-stop down, and the robot was still wandering all over the field.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I(and my battered hands) would love a "program" button on the OI itself . . not just on the robot board. . ohh and would love to change the serial cables to USB . . and find some way to integrate the antenna on board . . and C++ compiler would be great too.


. . and get rid of those small main power pins, they break off to easy.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Mounting our 05 RC on a practice robot this year, I pulled both (+/-) of the spade terminals out of the board. A little JB Quik worked wonders, but I wonder why they switched from the trusty screw on ring terminals? They certainly were secure. Also, the backup battery connection needs to be more secure, that plastic connector is too wiggly even when electrical taped together.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I recently have dealt with some Zigbee modules. There are some FCC precertified modules that include powerful processors. Some are 32 bit RISC and I believe an ARM one will be available soon. They have enough i/o and a to d pins to virtually replace the entire operator interface. This could drastically lower the cost of First electronics. The robot controller is a little different. With the master proc generating the PWM's and other house keeping, a single Zigbee module would not be a good replacement of the master proc on the RC. A Cheaper less capable Zigbee module and 2 pic 16 assembly coded PWM chips would fit the needs of the master proc. The cost savings of not having to provide 2 radio modems could be substantial. 50$ in volume buys 1 hell of a powerful module. All IFI would have to do for the oi is make a back plane with some sockets on it. Micro chip and FIRST are close. IFI would have to look beyond Microchip for precertified modules.

The Vex could also benefit from a little radio change. This past weekend I got a PS2 wireless controller hooked up to a pic and some servos powering a Vex square bot. I don't know about licensing issues but if vexlabs total skipped the radio's and oi and just provided a Sony PS2 jack the cost of a VEX kit could drop allot and reach a larger market. Let the user provide the PS2 wireless controller. I really liked the feel of the PS2 controller for vex.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Sorry, I must have been unclear. I don't have a problem with the backup battery itself; it is absolutely necessary for brownouts.

The issue is that the battery is required for the servo power, a simple diode OR internal to the RC would allow the servos to run off of the main supply without the backup battery (granted without brownout protection). This protects against a failure mechanism where the battery is too low or missing, without loosing the functions of the servos (and camera). So, instead of loosing brownout protection AND servo function, you only loose brownout protection.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

We had that happen this year as well.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Actually, I think the IFI systems are used outside of the FIRST community by those other destructive robot competitions like Battlebots. The IFI control systems seem to be discontinued all together according to Robot Marketplace: http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_ifirobotics.html

It just makes me wonder what is going on with IFI and what this means for 2007.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

These are the Isaac controllers, the ones FIRST used prior to the FRC ones (2003 and earlier). They probably discontinued these because the FRC chips are significantly more powerful while probably not being too much more expensive, plus the mini robot controller (aka the EDU-bot controller) came out at the same time they stopped with the Isaac system since it can probably give all the same capabilities in a smaller package that's relatively cheap.

I know our team was at least one of those guilty of overloading last year's memory for code. After failing to get the camera to work very well and then running out of memory, we dropped it from our program last year. It cleared up about half the memory.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Ahh! I didn't realize that all the Isaac controllers were the old PBasic versions. Thanks for clearing that up.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

If anyone wanted to get a replacement for any of their control system all that person would have to do is give IFI a call and they will gladly help you out, Im 2004 I ordered a 2001 OI, the only difference is some slight hardware and software upgrades. IFI won't be going anywhere they're too reliable to let go. They're always there when you need them, whether at the event, on and off the field, customer service and whatever you else can come up with.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

that would be AWESOME. but it would not require as much engineering and insight to how each pin in the Pinout of the DOS joysticks does and all of that stuff and you dont need to dig through the root of the problem and look it up.. all you have to do is plug and play and I'm against it because I Think that the teams that did all the reasearch for the Ps2 controllers and stuff wasted their times trying to help their teammates..

Pavan

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

A few responses to some suggestions here:

RJ45 connectors - Why would you use giant 8 position connectors for 3 wires? Now the tiny 4 position ones like on telephone handsets would be doable. But there's no way you could fit enough on the RC. The whole point of the connectors are that they're standard for all RC Hobby equipment, and they're standard because they take up SO little space.

USB joysticks would be nice, but the drivers would be a royal pain to work out. And you'd still need ports for custom controls. A USB RC would similarly be nice... but do you really want to be forced to be 5m away from your robot to program? We've got a pair of 30' serial cables to tether the robot and have it hooked up for debugging and it's rather useful.

Also, if you're scraping your hands up pressing the program button on the RC, use the program/reset pin header and put some buttons in easier to reach areas. I had the students figure that one out when they started complaining about that.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45687

Maybe it is premature to assume that IFI is in the middle of developing advancements for 2007. The linked thread describes how IFI is at the end of their current contract with FIRST. Since they're at the end of a 5-year contract, perhaps they're burning inventory in case there is no renewal?

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

USB interfacing to download programs to the RC would probably be the nicest advancement at serial ports seem to continue to dissappear...

Stronger connectors for the +/- terminals on the RC would also be nice...we pulled one out and had to re-solder it back on.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I talked to The IFI guy at the Peachtree regional about the future of the controller. He told me that it has "outlived its useful lifespan" and that it was coming time for a new model. He told me that they had not yet decided what the new model would be like, only that there would be one.


I predict

• The PIC is here to stay
• Next year's controller will have a USB interface in addition to or in place of the serial port. I is likely that they will just add on an internal usb->uart chip.
• We may see a different connector scheme (I pray). It would require breaking compatibility with standard RC hardware, but would be well worth it. The can always sell adapter cables. the .1" headers are meant to be well protected. the do not take well to FIRST abuse, are not secure, and are generally a pain.
• A possible move from the traditional black flat square enclosure. This is WAY bigger than it needs to be. If you take it apart an look at the PCB, its very sparsely populated. Just look at the EDU.
• add an internal charger for the backup batt

I would also like but do not think it is likely

• An LCD display on the robot (2x16 characters min)
• Strong aux power on the OI

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

It could be--but I think that the purchase of Vex (which, unless I really missed something, seems to have its biggest support in FIRSTers) seems to point to IFI wanting to keep with FIRST. And there's also Tony's quote from the UFH award:Unless they've been brainwashed by their bean-counters and managed to hide it in Atlanta, I'm betting that IFI will do just about anything within reason to keep working with FIRST.

On an unrelated note, I'd love to see the ring terminals return to the RC like they were in 2004. Secure, and so much less prone to break!

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Although everything in this thread has been speculative and people have brought up good points, I definitly agree that there could be a million different reasons why IFI would not be selling more for this year. Either way, in the case that there are major changes, my only request would be that they continue what they did a few years ago with the edubot... provide an early test-bed for teams to transition with. I know many teams and students that are purchasing the VEX system to learn electronics and develop code to work in FRC next year.

With the hints made several times by FIRST in Atlanta, they definitly are planning to bring that camera back again and will be trying to push autonomous harder once again. As long as teams have time to learn the basics of a new system, I feel that this could be done with great success. I know that several teams plan to try to learn more about better using the CMUCAM in the offseason, and should a major revamp of the system come into play next year (i.e. FIRST decides to use a different color-tracking camera for some reason or the programming language changes)

The transition from Basic to C was a major step a few years ago, and if that happened again I would only hope we had enough time to transition pre-season and develop basic tutorials for students that have never worked with the system before. One possible strategy could be to incorporate these changes into the next-generation VEX controllers a few months before season. It would keep both FRC and FVC using similar controllers, allowing teams to work together as support groups in next year's game as well as learn whatever type of new system is used.

Finally, surprises add to the challenge and I am definitly not saying "They should let the cat out've the bag pre-season." However, something that would completly change how the system works should be announced early enough for teams to adapt and do research so they are in a position where they can tackle the games challenges.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

My guess would be they are switching out the PIC.. with all the problems that we initally had, why keep it? There has to be a better model that doesn't require disabling parts of memory :)

The old PBasic controllers had parallel ports for sensor connectors.. Those were probably gotten rid of because of the number of wires you had to solder to them.


There are free pins in the program cable, you could fairly easily wire up remote switches using a break out box on both ends.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I really don't see any major problem with the current PWM connectors, a little clip thingy like those RobotMarketplace doohickys could solve the problem on the RC end, and those RobotMarketplace doohickys could be used on the Victors. A little more reliability in the RC and better power connectors would be nice. Some metal linings on the mount holes would also be nice so you can Loctite them without destroying the piece. (Would be nice on Victors too, actually) As for the breaker block, two more 40A slots would be nice, and maybe a digital display that says the total current the robots pulling at the time. It would be perfect if it included current sensing on all the 40A slots, but that would be far to big/heavy and pricey. Maybe putting LEDs next to the slots that are popping breakers, or having another way to check for popped breakers.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

You suggestions for the breaker panel are a good idea. The one time we had a mesterious breaker problem, we didn't have time to connect a serial cable up to see which breaker had tripped. Current monitoring would be invaluable in managing our power wisely. It could defiantely be done within the current size. The price would probably have to be raised though.

It would also prevent unnessary drain on the backup. Now what would be really cool is if they integrated something like that circuit they released that would actually charge the backup from the main batt.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Current monitoring, limiting and protection is best done at the ESC. To do this the Victors would have to get smart and the PWM method of control would have to go. Then that brings up the subject of interfacing the ESC with some kind of buss. Then there is the problem of what buss, the clock rate of the buss, latency and the master slave-protocol. RS232, RS485, CAN what ever and the async nature would greatly change the way we program the RC no matter what form or processors are in it. No matter what form the OI/RC takes in the future I hope a graphical programming environment is included as an option to program the RC. Our team was a minimalistic effort this year. Mostly rookies and we used EASY-C. Programming was not a worry and in fact the robot code was mostly written and debugged between matches on Thurs. and Fri. The quick programming and prototyping of easy c allowed us to get things worked out and working well for Sat. Made it to the finals at PHIL. With MPLAB we would have been marginal.

One last comment. The radio modems are expensive. I'll mention it again. Zigbee modules offer the opportunity to integrate the RF and master proc in the RC and could be the whole OI and they offer allot of bang for the buck.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

We are the ones that spent all the time working on the PS2 controller, and we WOULD LOVE it if IFI supported different conrollers. The PS2 controller box we made has it's moments, and isn't perfect all the time. Yes - we use it 100% of the time, and it's awesome to drive, but the software is a pain. It would save people alot of time to just plug in a controller to the OI and spend time putting in gyros and gear tooth sensors (which we ignored in order to get the PS2 controller working.) We just tried something new, and would be happy if IFI made it better. (And it could be alot better...)

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

They could just add an additional analog current sense pin to keep interoperability with traditional RC equipment. Personally i think that a bus would be great. If we could daisy chain the speed controllers, the wiring would be much more organized. Just think of running a single cable over to your victors. The Victors already have a PIC. I think a multidrop buss like CAN, i2C, or RS485 would be great. I would love to see smart victors. It might cut reliability, as a compamise of any one cable could down everything downstream, but a good connector/cable combination should cut this down altogether.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

IFI is working on a new controller. They admitted as much when I inquired on future availability for a team just starting up and needing something to work with before the build season in 2007. A new model may be available as early as late in the Fall.

This of course does not mean the FIRST must use the new controller, only that there will be a model from IFI.

My speculation is that if they were doing radical changes, it would not be announced until Kickoff if it impacts the competition.

In case IFI is reading this forum for ideas to ensure ensure acceptance of their new design my top picks are:
1) Smaller footprint for the RC
2) More secure connectors than those on PWM cables
3) USB support on the OI
4) Support for Saitek or similarly adjustable (left or right handed) controllers

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

My team in the previous years and we continued this this year, we put strong velcro on the back of the backup battery and we dont have to worry about it all season.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

At NATs, we were told we couldnt use velcro and had to remove it in favor of zip ties.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

You heard it boys, no water game 2007! Whooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So we don't have to have another discussion...right?

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Curses! I was already honing my 3DSMax skils to design our holographic robot interface....

Seriously, though. I was bored and browsing the 32-bit PIC on Microchip's site and I was drooling over some of the features. More specifically, the compare output pins. 5 or 8 pins where you need just one timer and very little setup for the compare modules to happily spend thier time generating an endlessly repeating PWM pulsetrain. Just dump a new value into a compare register and the pulse width changes, no interrupts or function calls needed. Plus, you know, native 32-bit math.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

We had velcro AND zip ties... its not like we didn't try! :) Thats partially why it was so disturbing and frustrating.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

That inspector needs their hard drive wiped and the common sense upgraded from version dingbat 1.0. This is a perfectly acceptable practice, and it has been done and approved for many years.

The only place on a robot that you can't use Velcro is for a traction device.

...sigh


Andy B.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

John... you're the man. I know you can handle it. Think of it as "water cooled."

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Hmm... this upgrade could potentially mean more radio channels than the 40 available now.

Maybe this is a sign that there will be more robots on the field at once, or more fields at the Championship, or both...??

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Or maybe just a more reliable radio system... I know my team and several others had problems with the radios at Great Lakes Regional this year, and there were also similar issues in 2005. Regardless of any other changes, I'm sure the new system will be more robust and reliable :)

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

No pressure on IFI eh Jeff? :p

I don't think we're going to see any major changes, however I would definitely like to see a few rollbacks. Maybe back to the original non-glitchtastic PIC with a memory module hanging off it?

Definitely want screw head power connectors again. I like the standardized PWM connectors too much to trade compatibility for comfort. Hot glue works fine for that.

I know I'm going against the grain here, but does anyone else feel like we need to make less changes, not more?

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

hmm too bad would have loved a "program" button to be put on the OI board.

mabe . . 2 years from now

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

You can add your own if you want to. Put a simple relay between a digital output and the program header, so your program can commit suicide and make room for its successor on demand.

(It's likely that you don't even need a relay, and a straight connection between the signal and the PROG pin will work, but I'm not suggesting that you do that.)

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

We weren't in the mood to argue with this judge. He/She was kinda anal about everything detail...

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

This was inconsisent with our experience. We velcro the backup
battery directly to the RC, using a patch of velcro that covers the
entire side of the battery, in a spot that leaves the lights on the
RC visible. It never comes off in an impact, and in fact is quite
hard to get off in order to swap the battery. There was no objection
to this attachment method at the nationals.

Eugene

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Just something I want to put out there, since now 32-bit microcontrollers and ARM controllers are so affordable, are we going to see a shift towards these controllers soon?

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

I wonder if we had the same inspector on Galileo last year, s/he had problems with us wiring our fans to the inputs of the victors they were on. (As per IFI documentation) So, the robot had to have every fan (luckily only six) wired to our main power distro, and we had to scrounge up a bunch of 20A breakers. That robot now has such a terrible rats nest that I'm almost afraid to try and fix its wiring problems, due to fear of shocks.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

We've had problems with radios in the past (I was sick this year, so I can't say).

I've heard that a different company (not IFI) designs the field controls, using IFI components. I don't know if Hatch does this or if it's some name we don't hear much.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Is there a significant reason for predicting that the PIC is here to stay? THere are plenty other mC that are just as easy and even easier to use. AVRs, Gumstix, ect.....

The advantage of switching to another mC I think is that there is more support for the one they switch to.

Speaking from personal expirience and you can ask mike from 237 and matt krause I think it is about AVRs, but they are EXTREMELY EASY TO USE. You can get compilers that make libraries for you, I know of a few compilers that let you write code in other languages. So maybe for a rookie team they can program in PBASIC because they don't have much time to focus on that part. Then in off-season they switch to C

Also wouldn't they want to put the LCD on the OI rather than the RC beause then you can display diagnostics while in a match. And other messages, like you could have done shooter speed this year, or just plain old text that will let you chanegs something significant on your robot. I don't really know It just seems alot more useful on the OI.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Is there a significant reason for predicting that the PIC is here to stay? THere are plenty other mC that are just as easy and even easier to use. AVRs, Gumstix, ect.....

The advantage of switching to another mC I think is that there is more support for the one they switch to.

Speaking from personal expirience and you can ask mike from 237 and matt krass I think it is about AVRs, but they are EXTREMELY EASY TO USE. You can get compilers that make libraries for you, I know of a few compilers that let you write code in other languages. So maybe for a rookie team they can program in PBASIC because they don't have much time to focus on that part. Then in off-season they switch to C

Also wouldn't they want to put the LCD on the OI rather than the RC beause then you can display diagnostics while in a match. And other messages, like you could have done shooter speed this year, or just plain old text that will let you chanegs something significant on your robot. I don't really know It just seems alot more useful on the OI.

I feel like they kinda need to reassess the whole system and see what is absolutely necessary. After that they can start to add fancy bell and whistles.

Like as to the radio problem, what if they changed it to a blue tooth radio but made it a standard part just like the radios now. Just plug and play.

Also maybe IFI can make some ambidextrous joysticks rather then FIRST giving us 2 right handed ones. I just don't see how you can build a robot in six weeks but can't figure out how to make ambidextrous joysticks. I even remember one team using pens for the handles!

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Gumstix.... They have a lot of power and engineering built into them already, yet they'd need even more engineering to start approaching the capabilities of the current RC, I think. And I don't think IFI is in the business of reselling other people's controllers anyways. As far as the ATmega processor... it seems comparable to the PIC. 8-bit, A/D, etc. I I'll take your word for it on the compiliers and libraries and such, but any product from IFI is not likely to be an open architecture where you can do whatever you please. So I'm not certain there's an advantage there.

For joysticks, IFI isn't in the business of providing them or making them. You'll note that there isn't a single one on their site, so you're barking up the wrong tree.

Finally, bluetooth. *shudders* Okay. So Bluetooth works in the same frequency band as 802.11b+g wireless lans, and is meant for low power devices with an operating range of 30 ft. This means it's highly susceptible to being blocked by people, metal and generally just about anything. It's also likely to be interfered with by networks at universities, laptops, cordless phones, and microwaves. on top of this, if you're actually implementing Bluetooth, it has to accept and deal with attempts by other bluetooth devices to sync with it. So basically, I think it's a lot more trouble than it's worth. Meanwhile, IFI's radios are pretty darn robust and have good range and deal well with noise, etc.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

Instead of Bluetooth look at Zigbee. A high computing power Zigbee module and a few components could replace the whole operator interface and cost allot less. The master proc and separate radio modem could be replaced on the robot controller by a Zigbee module. I've used couple Zigbee parts at work and the results have been very good considering Zigbee is just getting going as a standard.

Re: IFI Control System (OI/RC) - The Future???
 

IFI does sell (second section) the KOP joysticks--I ordered three for my kiwi-drive project. However, I agree with the principle of the argument; either use the KOP ones or buy/roll your own.