Clarkson VS. RIT
 

So here is my situation-
I have started to think about my life, and it isn't goign the way I wanted it to. I have been making lots of mistakes that have been dramatically affecting my life and have no idea what to do about anything. It seems as though that my parents have never been involved with school at all of my life. They could careless ad just don't really seem to want anything to do with it, or me. So I was thinking about college. And it seems as though my dad has decided for me that I will attend RIT. Right now I am in my junior year of highschool, but next year for my senior year I will be going to MCC(monroe community college). I want to know about other college that I can go to to major in mechanical engineering. I was thinking maybe Clarkson becuas eit is still instate and only 4 hours away and around the same price for tuition(+ rooming either dorm or apartment). Price doesn't really matter ebcause I would mostly be paying for it anyways so I will have student loans either way. I am open to other schools, so please just give me your honest opinion on RIT or Clarkson or another school.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I don't know much about Clarkson except that 229 Division by Zero is from there but I can tell you about RIT since I went there for 14 years. It's a high level institiution with a high level pricetag and I would heavily reccomned it. Plus you can paricipate in Rochester FIRST and attend the FLR and the Rah Cha Cha Ruckus,

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

John,

First off I want to let you know that you have some time to explore other colleges besides these two. Regardless of the school you end up deciding on you should make sure you have explored many options. You can (and probably should) apply to multiple schools and then decide which one you want to go to when you have weighed all the options (location, cost, campus life,...etc). Many times an expensive private school can end up costing the same as a public school due to scholarships and grants. Be sure to apply to any FIRST scholarship your schools have to offer.

Now to your original question. I graduated from Clarkson last year with a degree in mechanical engineering. I loved it there and thought it was a great school. I also know people who went to RIT and loved it there. I think that both would give you a great education and a good start to your career.

You should go visit these schools because it gives you a better sense of environment. I also know that 340 has some great mentors who have now worked with you on a FIRST team and should be able to answer some more of your questions about colleges that suit you. I wish you luck on your college search as it is a stressful but rewarding process.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I visited both schools over spring break and they are tied as my top choices, heres what I think. Clarkson gives you a great, personalized education, its smaller, a bit more seculed (ok so it redefined middle of no where) but the students make up for it on their own. RIT is a little bigger, but I felt it to be a lot more stress and competition for ME majors (a lot of MEs switch to MechTech majors), it had a more diverse social life, but also provided a great Co-Op program.

Both of them balance out for me, I'm a junior and I'm still not sure which one I like more, guess I'll have to wait it out some more.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I have been on campus very often and will be taking classes over the summer at RIT for free (its something special they worked out with my school district). RIT has a great campus that is spread out and is always growing. The Engineering building is adding on during the next couple years. They are trying to become more involved in FIRST during the next year and are trying to get more people interested in it. They may hold a meet and greet hosted by team 1930 this year, its still in the works.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I doubt very many people will have an unbiased opinion here. Kim O'Toole has gone to both, although I don't know that it's still unbiased to compare undergrad with grad.

John, I guess it depends on how far you're planning on taking it, what area of expertise you want to get into. I personally loved the RIT 5 year plan with 15 months of co-op built in. It also gives you 5 years to pay for 4 years of tuition. They also have a MS/BS program to let you get your Masters in the same amount of time that you could get a bachelors.

I'm sure you knew all this though. I'll be taking grad classes all summer if you want to sit in and see how it goes.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I've got accepted to RIT so I'm going to be a little one sided.

I have heard from many sources that their sources say clarkson doesn't retain many students, that they transfur out before graduation. I perfur RIT because of the campus. It's very nice and I enjoyed the times I was there. It's a good place for me.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

John,
First off. get back to work. I know you are probably reading this during MY CIM class. (starts in 10 minutes).

Now to your question. Both schools have their pro's & con's.
RIT has lots of programs & many majors. You can do the 2+2 program with MCC & many of the classes you have taken here & received credit for will transfer. At RIT you will have the oppertunity to see many people you know, stay involved with FIRST or something bigger (yes there are other programs other than FIRST). You will have a support group from our school, our team, & our mentors.

Clarkson can give you something RIT cannot. Change. You can get away & figure out who you want to be just as much as what you want to be. It is a bit colder there in the artic circle but you know how to zip up a coat. Clarkson offers programs other than FIRST also. Look into scholarships, We have had a huge number of GRR grades go to Clarkson on scholarships. Talk with some of our former students. See what they thought.

Go and visit both schools, if you need someone to take you let me know. Create an opportunity to make your own decision. You are a smart kid & should be able to figure out what you are looking for. As for clicking a box and voting on a school, that is really up to you.

Now get back to work!

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

Lots of good advice in this thread.
I agree that you will do great with either choice.

I just wanted to throw in one more:
"I had a GREAT time at Clarkson, and found it an excellent fit for me."

As always, your mileage may vary.

-JV

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I know that just asking peoples opinions isn't reall y the right way to choose a college but I wanted to start doing research also. I have more in mind then just going for my major. I want a college that will open me up to the real world, and give me good work expirience. I know that would be the case of RIT with their co-op program during summers. But I have heard alot of people talk about the colleges in different ways.

As for what I am looking for in the college totally, I am not too sure. I like RIT because it is close to home and it will cost less because I can stay at home. But I also want to be more independent. I am just not sure about clarkson, because I will be so far from home and everything in FIRST and I am used to the Rochester FIRST community with the what is it about 20 teams now compared to the one team in potsdam. I am deeply interested in mentoring teams and helping out so I don't want to leave that behind.But I also want a good education, I like the idea of a better teacher student relationship at clarkson compared to how RIT has more vast student body.

I will try talking to Kim O'Toole, I never knew she attended RIT. I am aware of clarkson because of how she always is wearing a clarkson hoodie when I see her.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

For anyone else interested in RIT - I'm an instructor in the Mechanical Engineering Department. I've been here as undergrad, adjunct, and graduate. I'll be here year round. If you're coming to check out the campus and want a more personal tour, just give me a holler!

I also teach the CAD course (using ProE) and you're welcome to sit in on a class.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

From the tone of your first post it sounds like you want/need to get away from home. There are many good universities outside Rochester.

Nobody has mentioned Cornell yet.

Since you are involved with FIRST you should apply for every FIRST scholarship at a university that has your major. A 100% tuition coverage scholarship levels the playing field for just about every other aspect of which school to choose, because when you dont have to pay your tuition you can either: have more free time for studies and other interests (instead of working as stockboy for 20 hrs a week at some store), or save up your money for Grad school.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I have never really thought about a full ride scholarship that way.

How early can you apply for scholarships? ;)

the 100% tuition doesn't cover the room and board costs right?

I know RIT hands out many 100% tuition scolarships because my friends grandmother I believe it is works in the admissions office where they handle scholarships. She said that they didn't even hand them all out this year, I don't know if this is correct. But is something like this not very well known?

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I find myself agreeing with Ken Wittlief, yet again: The most important thing that college can do for you is give you the chance to learn how to live on your own.

If you go to RIT, insist on living there. Commuting from home is no way to go to college, and decreases your chances of succeeding. The reason is that you remain in your existing environment: parents, friends, hangouts... in short, you're not moving forward.

I went to SUNY Stony Brook and left with an EE 25 years ago. The most important thing I left with was the confidence to live on my own and know I could succeed. This is your one big chance, don't miss it.

Oh, and that 'lost' feeling? Its kinda normal, but go see your guidance counselor, if they're worth their salary they'll help a lot.

Good luck, remember us a few years from now and let us know how it's going.

Don

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

My guidance counsler isn't worth my lunch money...

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

As a RIT graduate from Mechanical Engineering, I have to say I had a blast at RIT. I loved the co-op program because it helped me figure out what I wanted to do after graduation. The classes are hard but worth it. The professors actually care (at least most of them) about their students because they're not busy doing research. I loved the fact that RIT didn't have doctoral programs (at least until recently...but those don't affect too many professors). However, I think they're trying to move towards doctorates, so that may change the roles of the professors...I'm not sure at this point.

That being said, one of the biggest contributions to enjoying RIT was that I moved away from home. I commuted to SUNY Stony Brook for my first two years of college and honestly it felt like an extended version of high school. I woke up, drove a longer commute, walked farther to classes, went to class, ate lunch, went to class, went to work, and came home. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. I needed to get away.

So, while I highly recommend RIT as a good school with a great co-op program...I think it's also very important to get a real college experience. I agree, if you go to RIT, live on campus. Definitely live on a campus...and don't don't go home every weekend. :-) College is an important time to figure yourself out. And like everyone said, remember there are more schools than just RIT and Clarkson. There are a ton of SUNY schools and remember that NY State gives TAP for financial aid.

Well, that's my $0.02 for what's it worth. Good luck.

~Christina

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

Well I figured since Kate mentioned me I should chime in :) It is true, I have taken "several" courses at both (ok Im two courses shy of my RIT MSEE). From what I can tell Conor has a pretty good explaination. Clarkson has a smaller but more family like feel. They are in the middle of nowhere, but I cant really remember ever being bored. You will work like crazy, but there is also plenty of fun to be had. RIT has a bit more of a city feel to me. They still have plenty of great professors, and a good education, but the quarter system and being in the city tend to spread out the students a lot more, so the atmosphere seems more school & city oriented.

The quarter system may also be something to consider. For me, its really hard to learn in such a short timeframe, and Ive found if I slip at all there is no time to catch up. That said, I know it works well for a lot of students because they can learn quickly, or if they dont "like" a class it is over much faster! I would say both have comparable co-op programs, only difference being that RIT forces you to do it as part of your requirements, whereas Clarkson has an excellent career center but you have to go to them to ask for help finding a job. For some, RIT is better because it forces, for others they like to plan on their own, in that case, Clarkson works.

I wanted to talk to this statement, because it can be a bit misleading. After freshman year, Clarkson has a VERY high retention rate. In my class I only knew of a few students who left. However, where this probably does ring true is during freshman year. In your first year, Clarkson separates those who can make it from those who cant. Yes you are "just" taking physics, chem, calc etc... but with a slight twists. The tests make you think for yourself, the homework counts, the teachers will know your name (so if you dont show up for class, they know). Many kids get to Clarkson and think "Im away from my parents its PARTY time!" These are the kids who do not make it past freshman year. I knew several kids who after the first semester had 0.35 GPA's & below, and after second semester were no longer students. But every student that actually tried, made it to graduation. The teachers WONT let you fail if you are trying hard. Other students wont let you fail either.

Thats another difference I've seen in Clarkson & RIT... Clarkson suprisingly has nearly no competition. Everyone is out to help everyone else. RIT seems to have a bit more (not as bad as MIT or some of the others, but still very present). So it depends on which environment you thrive in.

And I guess that leads me to my last thought. From what I can tell, Clarkson is a lot more group oriented throughout your college career. Nearly every class stretches group projects or labs across the semester. You learn to work with people like you will in RL engineering. But RIT has a really strong senior design program that integrates you with other types of engineers to build a project. Other than that group work at RIT seems present but minimal. In about half of my classes there was a small group project/paper for the last three weeks.

For me, Clarkson was the perfect fit, but it depends on how you learn and what will help you grow. Good luck!!

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

... I hate to agree with this one but... I'm not sure if your guidance counselor is worth your milk money.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

SO I have decided to try my hand at The Clarkson School once again.....I had origonally planned on doing this back in january but my dad wouldn't let me

I have started my application and all that already. My dad was on board before but now I have no idea where this is leading to. He is giving me 7500$ for all of my college. Not just this year but all 4 years, a grand total of 7500, [sarcasm]yea that helps[/sarcasm]

But now he has once again decided to not be a good father and wont talk to me, and said he won't cosign for any loans for me. He would probally do it for a student loan that has no interest and can be paid after I get out but I am not sure. That is the one he keeps talking about but he says he cant apply for a student loan for somebody 16 years old. Which doesn't make sense becaus eother people are going to TCS too.

But I am going to call the director of admissions at CLarkson again tomorrow and talk to him about this all some more. but in the mean time anybody have any scholarship ideas or grants?

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I think the only student loans you will find with no interest while you are in school are subsidized Stafford loans, which are capped at set amounts depending on the year you are in ($2500 or so freshman year I believe, at least for the unsubsidized I have, and then increase every year (approx 3700, 5500, 7500, these numbers are +/- $500 or so). This requires that you have a FAFSA EFC (expected family contribution) low enough to get them. I don't believe you need a co-signer either, at least I didn't need a co-signer for my unsubsidized Stafford loans.

Its probably a little early to worry about which school you go to (you have to be accepted first!) - although it is the time to start looking at schools, as you can apply early decision in the fall. Get accepted first though, and then see what they offer you for financial aid before you start worrying about it. Just because you don't think you can afford it doesn't mean its not worth applying, or not worth the $50 application fee if you have visited and want to go there. If you really can't afford it, then the financial aid office will likely make it so you can. However, if your family has significant resources, but doesn't want to commit them to your college education, you may run into issues. Don't worry about applying for loans until you have been accepted, as loan companies likely aren't really going to care for another year until you are actually accepted and starting school soon.

Also, don't restrict your applications to only two schools - I obviously have no idea about your grades etc, but at least apply to more than two, just in case you don't get accepted, even if your grades seem to line up fine.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

There are some lenders out there that will give you loans without a cosigner, especially if you explain your situation to them. This happened to me this past semester when I quit a full time job that helped paid for school for mainly sanity reasons. My mother nor my father would cosign a loan to cover that since it was my decision to quit the job. I took it out on my own, granted the percentage is higher than it would have been if they had signed but it works. Education is the most important thing to me, having to pay an extra few hundred dollars in the long run is the sacrifice I decided to take.

Talk to the Financial Aid Department at the school. Most of the time, they will provide the resources to you in order to pay for school on your own. You will have to fill out the fafsa.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

yea fasfa is all filled out I just need to jump online and change the school s they gov can send them the info then I am calling them tomorrow during my lunch break to discuss this matter more in depth.

Did you get this loan from a national bank or a local one?

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

Mine is through a national bank.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I only heard it as a rumor, but I get it now. Thanks for enlightening me on the subject.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

In case you didn't know The Clarkson School is a early admissions program that start ehh April 25th? I wanna say so I kinda have to have the application in before July 1st.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I've read a few posts on the first page..

I'm at the end of my first year at RIT so I can tell you (or anybody) all you want to know in a private message about specifics.. I'm a manufacturing engineering tech major but am pursueing an MBA or M/S in mechanical and manufacturing system intergration (i'll decide in the fall).

I read somebody said something about Clarkson's retention rate not being very good, and the same is true for RIT... But the school is working very hard to improve the situation. The school is open to change and WILL make reasonable changes. For example: this year all the freshmen complained about meal options being too strict on where we could eat, and supposedly they made changes for next year.

RIT's ME, MET, and Manufacturing engineering departments are rigiourious programs, but you'll have some awesome co-op oppertunities. The department of Manufacturing/Mechanical Engineering Technology here have a 100% co-op placement for students who wish to go on co-op.

If you schedule carefully like I am, it's possible to earn your MBA without taking a ton of extra courses, and one of RIT's best secrets is that our College of Business is amoung the best in the country.

The buildings are in awesome condition, we have the almost brand new college of computer science building, Engineering Technology will have a new 8 million dollar building open in 2007, the college of engineering and college of business are both going through renovations and the college of science just finished a rennovation not too long ago. Also we're getting a 56 million dollar college town with retail stores and all that good stuff, and I think construction is starting soon.

But, you should look at other colleges. If you want to do research or maybe get your PhD one of my professors told a kid to transfer to U of R since RIT is a career based university.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

Well....I got accepted to TCS!

So now I have to figure out the money part.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

Congrats John, Part of me wants to keep you around for another year but I know you need to do this. Good luck!

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

I remember a certain conversation

"Anything I can do to get rid of you..."

But I guess the reason I am doing it is because you always push your students to do what they think they can't do and to challenege themselves, and that kind on mindset has been carved into my brain and it has helped me for the better. So thanks for everything.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

Your situation sounds like mine my mom doesnt and hasnt cared about me and school...i dont have adivce on school's becuase mine is the complete opposite..my mom wants me to go to a california school a UC....but I want to go to RIT. And RIT has a bunch of engineering companies there and I want the same major. Although Clarkson has more robotics scholorship money(if your planning on applying), RIT has the location to get a job after school. I am a junior too and am in the same boat but personally I would go to RIT. You lucky its closer Clarkson and RIT I am 3,000 miles away from it. But I want to go to RIT because in 2004 my team 22 voluteered at the Rochester regional and I feel in love with RIT...but thats just me its different with different people but have fun deciding what college's to apply too.

Sarah

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

So you do listen to me? All this time I thought I was just talking to the walls.

Re: Clarkson VS. RIT
 

..........zing..........