Ready For TV Yet?
 

This year had a really exciting game in my eyes. Since we web cast the GTR I was wondering if, without all of the delays in a regular regional, people could see FIRST being shown on TV? There have been times that this was discussed in the past but did this years game bring us closer to the big day of FIRST on Prime Time TV?

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

i think discover chanel would be the best place.

shaun

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

The only problem I see with having regionals aired on TV is that it's 3 days long. But I think AIM HIGH would of been great to try and make into maybe a 3 hour show showing the best matches and the quarter finals and such and have it be shown at a later date.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Discovery fits, but I'd really like to see it on ABC, FOX, or one of the other huge networks. If the GDC pulls off a simple, (to understand) fast-paced game with lots of strategies, scoring, defense and so on it (IMHO) would get a good number of viewers. (At least more than that American Inventor show)

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Its kewl to watch, but thats me speaking... From random people they might just think of it as another stupid sport in th world like bball.(one of my best frined's attitudes)

Pavan

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I agree, the Discovery Channel needs to cover the event, all three days of it.
They could make it a special! :cool:

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I would like to see a channel follow one or two teams through a season, reality TV style (TLC, perhaps?). The show would air weekly and would document the trials and tribulations the teams experience in their quest to build a robot. Funding issues, unexpected failures, and tense design meetings; these things make for great television. The regionals attended would be filmed and summarized (perhaps a special two hour program would be aired, with highlights, matches, and images of pitcrews etc...). This would all lead up to limited or full coverage of nationals; they could make it a two-day special event, and invite speakers to speak in interim periods or low action times (Dean Kamen, national WFA winners, Dave Lavery, Woody, etc...).

I think that the weekly show for 6 weeks will help establish a viewing base that will attract people to the "big event"- this will increase viewership and perhaps make it even moderately worth while for the station.

Discovery or TLC are probably our best bets.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

From someone who works in the TV Industry I can tell you right now, you will not see FIRST Nationals in prime time broadcast television anytime soon. The event does not have a wide enough appeal as of yet. I can see Discovery doing a 1 hour on the event, but never covering the whole competition. Even when ESPN covered the event, it was not every match, they covered just a select few.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Remember this thread from last week?

It raises some issues that seem rather relevant to this poll....

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

You are absolutly right, It would be far more likly for you to see a special that would take a couple of teams that make it to einstein and show you how they got there. They could end the show with the finals match. To follow the team through build season you would need a series not just a special, a series would be very simmilar to American chopper (has any one else ever thought that shop would be the best workspace ever) and would likly present both the robot problems and the people problems, while this would be fun it is a long way away. For now just keep watching the clips that make it on other shows.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

This is what I want to see. The weekly reality TV show style is perfect for FIRST. They can film the entire season and air it all afterwards, leaving them plenty of time to edit and figure out what's interesting to show. I think they would be able to get a decent audience on a channel like Discovery.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Its possible... just be aware that you will never see it on Network (as you said, Discovery is a good bet)... and I am worried about what a TV producer could do to FIRST's image...

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

This is harsh, but for FIRST to work on a major network television channel, it has to be showing good teams. Nobody wants to see matches where the score is 30-0. They want to see matches like Finals match 2 on Einstein, where it's action packed, and high scoring.

This pretty much precludes any chance of broadcasting an entire regional, or even nationals. There's too many mundane matches mixed in with the exciting ones.

The best way I can think of for this to happen is American Chopper style, as suggested before. They'd need to follow a team like Beatty, Wildstang, etc. A proven powerhouse, that will make a good robot and have exciting matches.

They could show the design and build process, and then an overview of the highlights from each team's regionals, and matches from nationals. Full matches might prove to be too long for a TV audience, unless they're extremely exciting.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Can they be televised successfully? I think it depends. The main requirement is that the game has to be elevator-friendly, in that I can explain it to someone on the elevators of the Moore School of Business on the way to class. (And those elevators move fast, goodness!)

I could definitely see the finals of a regional (especially the stronger ones) televised on one of the broadcast stations in town. And something like the Einstein finals would easily qualify as something for Wide World of Sports, even on a tape delay. (Sure, it's more exciting live--but the finals start relatively late for the east coast for such things.)

So my answer is yes, they could--but the game needs to be a top-notch one, on par with FIRST Frenzy and Aim High.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I really don't see FIRST ever being shown on live TV - there's too much down time, and too many matches that people probably won't want to see.

I see FIRST television taking the same approach that Poker has taken on TV: film the entire event, edit it to show the good stuff with a few human interest points thrown in, and air it at a later date.

Most of the TV announcers describe Texax Hold'em as hours of boredom with a few minutes of terror thrown in. No one is going to watch the hours of boredom just for the minutes of terror - therefore they tape and edit.

I'm not saying that FIRST contains consecutive hours of boredom, but out of a typical 8 hour day full of matches, 5-6 hours of it is down time. In addition, some of the matches just aren't that interesting. Besides that, I don't think that there's anything in the world that is interesting enough for people to sit and watch for 8 hours in one block - people have things to do.

I bet that you can take an entire regional and edit it into about 1 - 1.5 hours of exciting television. If FIRST becomes popular enough, the show could air on Sunday - the day after the event. I don't ever see FIRST going live for an entire event - MAYBE the final 4 at the Championship, but that's it.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Discovery channel viewers would eat this up! Almost all of my friends (including me :cool: ) watch the discovery channel. The best time to put it on would be right before or after mythbusters.

That'd make my year if I saw FIRST on the discovery channel. :D :D

-Q

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

To the narrow question re: Aim High vs. previous games, I'd give the GDC high marks for the video appeal of well-played matches in this year's game.

More broadly I have to concur with Cory (earlier in this thread) that FIRST would be a victim of fast fingers on many a TV remote, except when either American Chopper style back-stories or really exciting matches like Einstein F2 are on the screen.

It's kind of a Catch-22: a TV show about a competition that aims to change the culture will not be popular until the culture has been changed.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Probably would be 2 weeks to a month afterwards, because the editing would take that long. You are talking about human interest stories, team interaction, as well as the robot competition and such. However, in this format (texas holdum style or documentary style), it could be packaged properly for Discovery Channel, TLC, or other 'high tech audience' channels.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I posted this several days ago to a different thread ... Discovery Channel is located near Washington DC and it looks as though their executive staff may be open to suggestions for new shows. It may be worth a write-in campaign. Here's the info:

One Discovery Place
Silver Spring, MD 20910
Tel: 240-662-2000

John Hendricks, Founder and Chairman
Judith McHale, President and CEO
Donald A. Baer, Senior executive VP, Strategy and Development
William M. Campbell III, President Discovery Networks, US
Dawn L. McCall, President Discovery Networks International

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

One more chime in the chorus for a Discovery-type story (vs an ESPN-type sport show):

I feel a Discovery Channel-esque show could cover the awards far better than a sports-oriented production would. I'd be concerned about CA, EI, etc. not getting any coverage if the focus was the robot competition.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

much like HBO on demand... where u pick out the movies...

their should be FIRST on demand.. lol pick out the regional and matches... and if u have DVR it will auto. record for u!! i think thats the best way to go

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

A&E HAS followed 2 teams for the full season in the past. In 2001, the A&E series, "The Competition" did a 1 hour show on teams 116 and 388 and how they faired at the NASA Langley/VCU Regional.

FIRST competitions do not suit themselves to be live tv compatable. There is simply no time to put commercials. Especially at the regional level you also get several "dud" matches, with multiple lower level teams, which are not entertaining to watch. The 10-8 matches are simply boring, no other way to put it.
I can tell you from expierience that an action-packed matches will draw substantially more attention from a non-FIRSTer. During an outreach event this year, we had a DVD running with several of our matches on it, our AVA entry, the game animation, and the GTR Semi-final highlight real (to show what CAN be done in FIRST, not just what 116 did). Many more people watched and commented on the GTR highlight reel than any of our matches. Seeing teams like the triplets, and Thunder Chickens unloaded is far more interesting than any average match.
If you were to edit the competition and basically make a highlight reel of the better matches, elimination rounds, and the big awards, then it might be entertaining television. But then again, that was what ESPN did, and it was still pretty boring to watch.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

This was exactly my thought when combining FIRST with TV. To the competitors, it's exciting to watch your team's hard work come to fruitation by fielding a robot and having it compete. To the average person who has no idea what goes into building a robot, or what the spirit of FIRST is, the competition looks like 8 hours of repetitive motion. It's not even so much that the matches are boring to watch, but more that people watching the same type of game over and over and over again tend to become disinterested after a period of time. Robots come on the field, move around, shoot some balls, move off the field, rinse, repeat. It's interesting for the first few matches while the concept of the game sinks in, but after watching 20 or so matches in a row, it does get repetitive. This is especially true if an outsider doesn't have a team to relate to. Take a sport like baseball for example- most people interested in baseball have a favorite team, like the Red Sox, or Yankees, and have favorite players on each team, like Manny Ramirez, or Derek Jeter. People can watch a full 9 innings of baseball because they have a team to root for, and their team/players are out there for all 9 innings. In a FIRST competition, even if a spectator has a favorite team, that team will only be competing in 8 or 9 out of around 100ish matches. The rest of the 90ish matches won't hold as much meaning or interest, and combined with the repetition of the game, can easily become boring to the average TV watching person.

I think the solution is like many have already posted in this thread- put together an edited show documenting the trials of one or a few individual teams throughout the build season (Discovery Channel did this for some teams in the 2004 season, details in this thread ), and finish it up with highlights from the team's performance at the competitions. This will generate interest in how the robots come to be, give the spectators some attachment to the featured team, and as a result give the viewers someone to root for when watching video of the competition itself. All the while, it may encourage people who otherwise wouldn't have known about FIRST to seek out teams in their area and offer whatever assistance they can. Accomplish that, and it may help make Dean's dream of a FIRST team in every high school a reality, once enough people see what's involved in working with a team and realize they can easily become a part of it.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I think if you promote, promote, promote! what first is about, provide a well edited story telling DVD/promotional video of first....again more than just the robots on the field BUT the stuff on the field should be good and dramatic....make a riveting promo and make contacts and make them watch the video and just keep going at it.

who knows? maybe it will take off...or at least get coverage, I work in news as a camera operator and believe me I think I have much better odds of winning the lottery than predicting what the powers that be in news will tweak to but that means you just keep plugging away at it.

Hit GLobal and all the other networks and honestly....there has to be an alternative to canadian Idol!

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Aim High was an enjoyable game to watch but i think FIRST is not cut out for Live TV.

Please hear me out

To be honest i don't think it is possible to have a TV worthy run of matches. even if they showed the a run of the finals from the regionals leading up to finals at nationals that would not make a TV show.

For an event such a FIRST to be on TV, viewers need to have a connection to the teams and to form their own opinions of who will win.

I don't know if you are familiar with a show on discovery called biker build off but that is how a FIRST show should be set up. they tape parts of the build so that viewers can form relationships with the builders. then they have a reason to watch. I taped the nationals at home while i was there and when i came home to watch it not even i could watch it. how could we expect non-FIRSTers to enjoy watch it.

I think First needs to be a series rather than an event plus how cool would it be to be on after mythbusters :)

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I agree, there has to be some way to make it interesting enough. I mean, if they can make crab-fishing into a show (Deadliest Catch), surely they can do something with First.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I agree with you 100%... they want to see more of the human emotions and a deeper connection with the students than just watching some robots fighting. Thats why shows like Deadliest Catch follow the entire season, not just the catching. Showing all of nationals may be pushing it, but it would still be hardcore.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

Well good point, how about a series, following lets say 2-3 teams as they go from start to finish to competition....literaly follow every move so viewers learn about FIRST, the ethics, they get interested, oh and then...on the day of competition perhaps show it live or tape it and run it live to tape a but later that day or whatever.....

The "series" eposiodes of following teams would have to be interspersed with game/action video as well. As for commmercials? well....what better advertisers to hit up for commercial sponsorships of that kind of show than colleges, universities and high tech firms, automotive firms....talk about a target audience.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I think we are on to something

If we can figure out a way to get as many teams involved as possible it would be amazing PR for all of FIRST including individual teams.

plus there wouldn't be a problem with attracting an audience because all of first would be watching. Imagine being able to say "Hay i saw that guy at Nationals!" :)

Is anyone out there familiar with pitching shows to networks?

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I agree with everyone who says that a TLC/Discovery channel "reality" show where they follow a team around for an entire season. Like someone pointed out earlier, most people don't really know what goes into building a robot. If it was just the competitions being aired, it would get repetitive. But if someone can sit down to watch it and say, "Oh, look, it's team ___. They've been throught a lot of trouble this year. I wonder how things will turn out for them," it would most likely keep people hooked.

Also, like someone else mentioned, people sit down and watch their favorite teams/players for sports all the time. If someone can do that with robotics, it would make it more appealing to others.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

this years game looked fun.....and amusing
plus the contact and the intensity of the teams.........yea i think it would pull in decent ratings

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I think what would really help FIRST more than a TV show, is if there was a full blown documentary for the movies. I mean one guy goes to the majority of the regionals and does a documentary of teams and how they work.

Someone could easily do that in an area of many robotics teams and a regional. AKA Rochester, New York or some other place I can't think of at the moment. That person could start with the build season and watch different types of teams and how they build. A pro team, a Powerful outside of robotics team, and a rookie/basicly rookie team, and a medium team. You follow each of these teams through the build season, and than go the regional, where it goes to all the teams in the regional, shows lots of matches, and talks with everyone he can get the camera to.

Not only that...but I got the TV on Discovery Channel right now, and it's got that motorcycle show on, and I think if they could video just build seasons of about 50 teams and show one every so often, you got yourself a series. You get to see how exactly other teams build.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

FOX is the best fit in my opinion

here in orlando, our FOX station has a news, and they give intresting information to the community, about the community, im guessing alot of cites in the US have the same FOX afaliates with the same type of stories.

maybe every day or so, do a 3-4 min segment on what their local team(s) did that week for six weeks.

than FOX nationally can broadcast the competition in the markets which picked up these stories.... usually FOX plays random crap on weekdays and saturdays in the middle of march and april anyways.

the championship would be braodcasted on FOX, including those markets that did not participate in this "follow your local HS Robotics team as they build a robot" program. This would inspire them.

yes i know what all of you are going to say, how is Fox going to cover all four feilds and all that stuff at the same time. Well Local markets will pick which feilds to broadcast, considering where their local teams are playing. For regionals, local stations can have off the feild, in the pits interveiws, and all that nice stuff.

any ideas to add to this???

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I unfortunately have to disagree. 3-4 minutes is a good start but really not enough. There have been news reports on teams before but they really don't do FIRST or the teams they are about justice. additionally i would rather First not be among "random crap" and then possibly dismissed as such.

Just the other day I was watching local news and saw a minute or two segment on the Police Segway and to me the tone of it came off as a silly gadget for rich people that is unnecessary. Which is not how I or any of us feel. They quoted dean saying that the Segway would change the world, then they went on to say that that doesn't seem to have happened. This is a crazy comment because the Segway is still relatively new and expensive.

I am afraid that local news wont see us the way we and other technology enthusiasts see us. We need to work with people who like us and are like us. And unfortunately there are not many networks like that. Plus i think we would have a good shot at discovery and they would be the right place for us, not among gossip.

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

But here is the question.... all local news stations arn't the same

over here, in Orlando, we have four

Channel 2 NBC, I personally don't watch this, but there pretty average

Channel 6 CBS, I don't really like them, yes they get into the community, but they are not really effective at it

Channel 9 ABC, they are the most detailed news broadcast, but i think they are starting to lose steam

Channel 35 FOX, really starting to shine here in Centreal FL, friendly news broadcast and they are into the community alot,

and 3-4 EVERY DAY, i think that is enough. if teams can show that they are really willing to do this, for example there are a bunch of teams in centreal fl

1402, 945, 1649, 233, 801, 386, 665, 1694, 1902, 1390, 1604, 1557, and many other teams in the area.

PS: for those of you in the centeal FL area, im thinking about doing this myself, any help would be greatly appreatiated, PM me.

thanks

Re: Ready For TV Yet?
 

I could do that in the Toronto area and waterloo....actually I sent off a message to our news director suggesting just that....a series were we follow a team or two right from the planning to the build to the competition....a weekly series....who knows, they may tweak to it or they may not, then again next season I guess is a long way off. I am just still hyped like it was yesterday....I covered the GTR regionals for one Toronto station as a camera-operator and it was FUN!!! and interesting and intelligent and....the music was great.....especially the techno version of the chicken dance:)