Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

Comparing LEGO to Vex is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure, they're both fruit, and they will both satisfy your hunger, but their flavor is different. Whereas LEGO is a out-of-the-box, plug-and-play, toy-like robot kit aimed at kids, Vex is a much more advanced platform and vehicle for inspiration, innovation, and creativity. Many of the "problems" you outlined can be solved with a little creative thinking. ;)

This one is easy to fix, and there are two ways to do it. The first is to use one of the Vex bumper switches on your robot, and program the robot to start/stop if the bumper is pushed.

The second method, which does not use any hardware, takes advantage of the SetPWM() versus SetMotor() function in EasyC. While the SetMotor() command will work regardless of whether the transmitter is on or off, the SetPWM() command will only work if the transmitter is on. So if you use SetPWM() to program your autonomous robot, and you turn the controller off, the robot will stop moving. (Although the code will continue to run.)

This is not impossible either. If you purchase a multiple position switch and you wire a different resister onto each switch output, and then wire all of these back into a single analog input port, you can use programming to determine which position the switch is in by the value being returned on the analog input port. By using these different values, you can switch between different "sub-programs".

Your PalmPilot solution is a perfect example of the purpose of Vex. Vex is not a plug-and-play toy robot kit (like Mindstorms); rather it is a vehicle for the consumer to experiment and design and create their own solutions to "obstacles" that may arise. After all, innovating is quite fun. :p

Why should oneself be limited to just using Vex gears for hobby Vex robots? That being said, any 24-pitch gear, regardless of whether it is a "Vex gear" or not will mesh with each other. If you search technology-educator supply catalogs, such as Pitsco-USA, for 24-pitch gears, you should be able to find plastic worm, bevel, and rack gears with 1/8" diameter shaft holes. These will work with Vex.

Every 9 holes on a LEGO-technic beam will line up perfectly with every 6 holes on a Vex plate.

Home Depot sells nice storage boxes for less than $10 that work really well for holding Vex parts.



http://www.vexlabs.com has all that and a bag of chips when it comes to Vex. (They are the official supplier of Vex parts now that Innovation FIRST owns Vex.) ;-)

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. Vex gears will mesh perfectly with LEGO gears, and LEGO beams do line up with Vex holes. And you can get an RCX to comminucate with the Vex controller. Ah, the posibilities... ;-)

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

Very nice response...thanks.

What do you think about the new Mindstorms system? How will that integrate into the Vex system? How about the new Mindstorms sensors? Controller?

RRU

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

[quote=artdutra04]And you can get an RCX to comminucate with the Vex controller. Ah, the posibilities... ;-)
QUOTE]

Care to expand on this subject?

Thanks

RRU

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

Lots of good stuff in your reply. Thanks for a thoughtful response. Here is some clarification of my intention:

An underlying point of my post is that being "advanced" need not be equated to being "hard". The things I noted would make the Vex much easier to use out of the box. They would not reduce it to the status of a toy any more than it already is.

Building the Palm Vex solution was interesting to me because I like that kind of thing, but by itself it is not a robot of any sort. I consider that project to be infrastructure that did not directly advance the building of any individual robot.

Thanks for the pointers to suppliers for various parts. I have been accumulating these as I come across them for future use. What I was hoping to see as a result of my post was more variety of gears in the starter set or at least the gear pack. The point is to make it simple to translate other robots into the Vex format.

True. I should have been more precise. When I was trying to do this I needed to get something shorter than 9 Lego/6 Vex together. It can sort of be done at 2 Vex, but not exactly and not elegantly. Connecting such short beams seems to require specialized parts.

True. There is also the Zag/Stanley 14325 sold through Lowes which allows you to pull the bins out for use. The Zag also comes in double depth which is handy for the larger parts. What I was after was that the packaging of the starter kit could have been made more useful so that $10 wouldn't have been as necessary.

Does that include building instructions somewhere? I've seen a lot of pictures, but what I want to see is more building instructions akin to the square bot. Being able to choose among a significant set of building instructions gives the new user a nice way to ease into the experience. Code examples to match the building instructions helps people see how things are connected and gives them ideas to work forward from.

I created HobbyVex because I want to see more people using the Vex. Solving some of the infrastructure stuff in a general way makes the platform more valuable and easier to use overall. The suggestions I made were intended to help Vex spread into the more novice end of the market without sacrificing anything at the more advanced end.

Perhaps there is a philisophical divide between us. I would happily have re-used an existing solution rather than create the Palm Vex solution if I had been able to find one. Given that, I would have concentrated my efforts in other areas of innovation rather than duplicating an existing solution.

To me, innovation means going where nobody else has already been. Sweating over artificial barriers isn't satisfying. Knocking down those barriers so others don't sweat over them *is* satisfying.

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

Currently, I don't know of any step by step instructions for building different robots with vex. It's much easier with LEGO for two reasons: 1 LEGO parts come in discreet sizes and aren't normally modified when building robots. 2 LEGO has software which can graphically create building sequences. Hopefully, as the Vex and CD communities create more CAD files of vex components, we'll be able to lay out step by step instructions for building different robots.

For sample code check here at CD or vexforum.com. vexforum has a thread specifically for sample code. If you want to see sample code, you should just post a request for sample code to address something you want to see. Most people aren't going to randomly post entire code files, but we'd be more than happy to show you sample code for something like - using an ultrasonic sensor to follow a wall, or find the closest object, etc. :)

I don't think there's a philosophical divide between us. We FIRSTers are happy to take advantage of solutions presented by others. We don't try to reinvent the wheel either, but many of us like to try to find a way to do something better. I think the biggest difference between the Mindstorm and Vex communities currently is that Mindstormers have always had a source of sample material right from LEGO. Vex doesn't currently have that resource, so we users try to share what we can, when we can. Often it just means asking in the right places. :D

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

That was my experience also. That's why I have been building up a set of LDRAW parts for Vex. The first bundle is now available at HobbyVex CAD along with a preliminary version of the first robot model and instructions on HobbyVex Robots

The HobbyVex CAD project is based completely on the FREE tools from the LDRAW.org package. Given that people are intermingling Vex and Lego, using the LDRAW tools has a singular advantage that all the Lego parts are already defined. The tools in the LDRAW.org package include a simple way to produce rough building instruction images and also a more complex way to produce professional quality building instructions.

I hope the Vex community will be interested in producing building instructions for the many robots already out there. I'm willing to help where I can; right now I'm working on getting the rest of the parts library converted over.

P.S. I'm still very new in the CD forums, is there a best place to post this info as an announcement?

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

This sounds like a great project. There are a lot of young hobbyists out there who just don't know where to go after building a squarebot. This should help stir their imaginations.

I would post announcements in the main Vex thread. If the moderators think it should reside in another thread, they'll move it.

Welcome to CD. :)

Re: What NEW Vex Accessories Would You Like TO See?
 

I can empathize in that I have felt a huge gap, not so much in philosophy, but in mastery. I have been on both sides of the mastery gap. With Lego Mindstorms, from Day 1, I always had the sense that I had the ability to learn more, and that continued learning wasn't beyond me. I felt that I could figure out how to solve most challenges, though not always efficiently. With Vex, I have consistently felt, "I don't know how to make this work, and I don't know how to learn how to make this work." In addition, I've had a hard time finding information that will assist in my general understanding of the system, let alone a specific problem.

While Mindstorms and Vex are different in many ways, I believe the promoters of Vex can use certain aspects the Lego packaging and tutorials to make Vex more user friendly. For example, the basic Vex kit comes with only one model, the Squarebot, and doesn't include programming. The old $200 RIS kit came with programming and had building instructions and code for 3 very unique models, including a line follower. For $50, the Ultimate Builder's set could be purchased, with parts, building instructions, and code for 6 additional models, including a rack climber, a table sweeper, and a drawing robot. That's a lot of "wow" for very little money.

The robots on vexlabs.com also have "wow" appeal, but the 2-3 photographs for each model aren't quite enough to go on. My son started several and successfully built portions but got stuck on every model 1) because the view of important gearing & attachments was blocked by plates or not shown from the angles given and 2) we didn't have all the pieces needed and didn't know that until he had already started. While step-by-step CAD models are nice, digital photos taken at say 6 - 10 intermediate points are probably sufficient. One way to do this is to disassemble a working model, showing close-ups of important sub-modules along the way. Each model should also have a list of parts, at very least a list of kits ("This model requires the starter kit, 2 tank tread kits, and the metal and hardware kit"), but even better, a list of the individual components.

I've been told, "Just be creative and design your own robots." We've tried that, and there's nothing exciting about designs that don't work or don't work well. Better to follow in the footsteps of the masters first, then be creative when you have a solid foundation in the basics. Figuring out where to acquire that solid foundation has been difficult.

While I realize that Vex lacks tutorials because it is relatively new at 16 months, Mindstorm NXT was only released 2 months ago, and there are at least a dozen websites with tutorials and learning tools on this system (check out this list of links here:http://www.fll-freak.com/nxt/nxt_index.htm). Understandably, Mindstorms community is much larger than the Vex community, most likely accounting for the lag in resources.


Amen to that! It's my hope that the gap will at least narrow, if not actually close. I've attemped to do that with "Vex for the Technically Challenged" (final version soon to be released), but I lack the engineering ability to make a serious dent. The resources I see the greatest need for are:

1) a volume like "Building Robots with Lego Mindstorms", by Mario & Giuliu Ferrari, but for Vex and
2) a constructopedia of building projects witn "wow" that with come with instructions, a required parts list, and necessary computer code.

Any takers?