DARPA patent application
 

Re: DARPA patent application
 

and for those that have seen the videos, yes there is a reason this thing is called "The Benge Bungee"!!! :)

-dave

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w0w.. Talk about Aiming High!!
I hope this wasn't a secret project by DARPA, cause we all know when Dean's involved, people won't let the news of it just dwindle away into the night.

I am intrigued though about what does happen once you leave the chair.

Is there a part 2 invention to come later that helps slow yourself down??

The arc angles on the patent drawings didn't look like it would be too bad of a drop to fall from once you reached max height, but still.. a 5 story leap??? :ahh:

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In case anyone missed the related story (which better explains why this thread is in the forum it's in):

linkage

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Dave described this last year, so he can fill in details I may have forgotten. The device measures the height of the building, the distance from the base, and the weight of the "payload". It takes all that data and calculates the launch angle and velocity for a parabolic trajectory where the top of the building is the apex. At that point the "payload" has zero vertical velocity and very small horizontal velocity. In effect, you'd just take a leisurely step forward at the top.

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yes, but when it comes to tall buildings its not what happens at the top that matters, its what happens at the bottom

when you fall you experience normal forces until you hit the ground

if you are 'launched' to the top of the building, then you must experience high acceleration at the start of the ride. If the acceleration is too high out of the launcher you will black out (or snap your neck, or suffer internal damage...)

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Yeah, no sweat.

Let me get this straight...

Take that "leisurely step" after being shot 60-70 feet into the air, at the initial speed of about 65 ft/sec (19 m/s, 43 mph), travelling up to the top of the building in about 2 seconds. The cannon's launch would be similar to sitting in the driver's seat of a top fuel dragster pointed upward at about 80 degrees.

After this trip, a person might want to change their underpants.

AB

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take a step off of what?

I would think more along the lines of "Hope to God you land on your feet!"

and that there is something solid and nice to land on

like, a skylight, heat vent, or the open door to the stairwell :ahh:

this has Bugs Bunny/Road Runner physics written all over it! Where is Yosemity Sam when you need him "Shena Fratting NoGooden FreetaRotten No Good Varmit! I'll get you for this!" :^)

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What a great idea for 2007 FRC ! Call the new game "Just Shoot Me!" (or something similar -- I guess that name is taken by the TV sitcom.)

This would take the "Aim High" concept to new heights! A new level of challenge for the human player!

Of course, it would need to be extensively tested by the GDC, and might require a few new items in the kit of parts ... :D

[edit]... and a few more batteries. A rough estimate goes like this: to accelerate a 120# 'foolhardy payload' to 40 MPH exit velocity at 13 ft launcher height would require about 500 lbf thrust for about half a second. Assuming 50% conversion efficiency from the battery, you'd need about 40 kW electrical power during that split-second. Since our 12V batteries can only deliver about 200 peak amperes, you'd need about 16 of them to do the job.

And like Andy, I'd recommend a reserve set of underpants for the person who has just been accelerated at about 4g and then hurled five stories into the air![/edit]

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I particularly like the title at the top of the "related stories" list on the Register page:

Haha ... :p

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ok, but can it launch you with your segway onto the roof?

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The platform does look large enough to fit a Segway on it.

Maybe that's the secret to a smooth landing at the end?

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True, but I don't think the Segway will self-balance while flying through the air with the greatest of ease.

(Can someone with access to one verify that? :D)

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I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that any attempt to use this with a living/delicate/explosive/etc. thing would be foolhardy, if the distance is long enough, any wind, poof, you're off course, then the calculations are invalid followed closely by splat. Then again, they may be compensating for that somehow...

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Nah, it works on compressed air. They'd just have to tweak the pnumatics rules.

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I wouldn't think the Segway would even need to go into any balance modes.. hard as that may sound, since on a static surface it's always in balance mode.

But, Billfred does pose a great question. How do gyro's act in environments when they are being forced against the gravity that helps them balance?

I think I wanna buy a Segway just to throw myself in the air to see what would happen...

Or..

Has anyone ever tried throwing themselves out of an airplane while on a Segway to see it's reaction to conditions like that?
(Ooh ooh.. I'll volunteer. A position as a test "Pilot" for Segway LLC?? What can be cooler than that?) :cool:

Idk. I just see this invention leading to something way more than tossing people on roofs. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't see a practical use for this in the scope of the patent and what it claims.. Yet.
Yes, I see it as a working device, but why??

Sometimes we as engineers claim to invent something that of course can make something possible, but we also have to step back and ask our selves why we would want to make that "something" possible.

In all of Dean's/DEKA/Segway's other patents, they seemed to (ironically) follow the quote from the pixar movie Robots; "See a need, fill a need."
With the Ibot, it was the need for handicapped people to transverse obstacles, and as a side effect raise themselves to eye level of others.
With the Dialysis pump, and heart stent, it was the need to help people dealing with blood transfusions, and other medical problems.

Is there really a need to launch people on top of roofs quickly???

As I see it now, I don't believe there is, but like I said before, there has got to be a secret part 2 of this invention for this to make sense..

I'm just not seeing the big picture yet.

Dave, you said there was video of this device in use??
Can you point us to some links or some references???


Are we back on the 2006 hint again?? That was the "shovel's show" from the clue from this past year's game.

The Shovel ,or spade, or David Spade was an actor on "Just Shoot Me". Have we forgotten the clues meaning already?? :ahh:

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Come on Folks;
Didn't anyone notice the sarcastic tone of the news source to Dean Kamen in general. I think this is a perfect example of the uniformed ridicule that motivates most of us to build something just beyond reach. And besides how many perps will expect the SWAT team to land in their midst perched upon a five story building. LRU

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Yeah, I was thinking about "a shovel's show" from the 2006 game hint, too. Just wanted to see if anyone picked up on the ballistic GDC possibilities raised by Dean's recently published patent application. A more recent game design thread included a suggestion that the GDC should test game concepts thoroughly before kick-off. Since a certain GDC member is likely to know much more about the subject invention that we do here in CD land, I thought incorporating the human launcher (aka Benge Bungee) into the 2007 game would allow the committee to leverage existing test data. :rolleyes:

Just trying to be helpful ... :)

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Human player/safety helmet

good, good.

(not meaning to be sexist, DJ could incorporate Rocket Man by Elton John into the mix - oh, and the game could be called: To Infinity and Beyond)

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If this is really intended to launch a law enforcement officer onto the roof of a 5 story building, then what happens if the 'perp' steps in his way, and give the officer a slight push backwards as he is about to land?

or pops up at the edge of the roof with a sheet of plywood?

I can think of other uses for it though, like delivering groceries to a 5th floor window

or it would be great for shooting bundles of roofing shingles onto the roof of your house (instead of carrying each 50 pound bundle up a ladder)

Ill bet UPS and FEDEX would buy one for each delivery truck - just pick an open window and yell "INCOMING!"

could also greatly speed up olympic events, like the high dive - instead of having to climb the ladder for the 10 meter high dive, the athletes could be launched up in two seconds

I can even see new sporting events - with one of these, and lets say... about ten trampolenes, spaced out about 50 feet apart....

BTW, since the forces involved would be identical, shouldnt it be possble for someone to jump off a 5 story building onto the raised chair, and have the system catch him? Shouldnt it work in both directions?

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I guess my problem with this being used in tactical situation is similar to what Ken said.

Whats a better target that a SWAT guy trying to prepare himself on this giant pnuematic launcher sitting not more than ten or twenty feet from the building?

What ever happened to helos? Seems like one would do a better job. A large trailer/pnuematic launcher is as good an RPG magnet as a Littlebird.

But it is really, really far outside the box!

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Just a few quick comments:

Yes, this thing is real.

Yes, it really works.

Yes, it has been demonstrated to the very-top-level brass at DARPA.

Yes, DARPA got REALLY excited.

Yes, it launches a person safely without causing compression injuries.

Yes, DARPA has a very specific application in mind for it.

Yes, the "is the 'projectile' a sitting duck during set-up time" issue has been considered, and solved.

Yes, some of the members of the 2006 GDC got to see the videos of the thing in action. Unfortunately, it was too late to incorporate any of the resulting ideas into the 2006 game.

Yes, I have already determined that the device is capable of launching 2,160 Krispy Kreme donuts into the back seat of my Mustang with a vertical displacement of 65 feet, without cracking the sugary glaze on a single donut.

-dave

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Well of course! Just use adaptive electronic camouflage on it! Doh!

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Now we know what the thing is really good for. :]

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Okay, scrawled on a napkin at dinner, I figured that for a fifty foot launch, neglecting extra oomph to counter air resistance, a "launchee" would encounter ~ 4 g's. Really, not as bad as I expected, but the onset of the force is in ~ 1/3 of a second. I think the major obstacle in the design, which I'm sure has been taken care of by now, is to secure the launchee to the launcher, to get him going, and dissipate force, and then to release him. Dave, do you know how they did that?

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Yes, I know where the device lives

Yes, I have helped on this project (lifting mostly)

Yes, I have seen it work

Yes, I volunteered to get shot.

Yes, It is awesome.

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Does that mean you were shot? Or, do they have a rule against shooting crazy people, figured anyone who would volunteer to be shot must be crazy, realized someone already wrote that book and went home?

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no...i really want to but the deka crash dummy is the only one going right now.

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So how does the deka crash dummy land?
Seriously.

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With a nice thud I'm sure, since it lacks the capability of grace and the ability to gain style points as humans do.

Well.. some humans. Others are not so graceful.

Re: Me on a dance floor. :ahh:

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OK, so now I guess we know that it's a real idea for people...

But... the first think I thought of was - this would be an AWESOME way to deliver a PackBot or Talon robot in a SWAT situation.

PackBot: http://www.irobot.com/sp.cfm?pageid=109
Talon: http://www.foster-miller.com/lemming.htm

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If I designed this system it would definately have a crank on the side

that you have to turn 10 times to release the trigger

and it would go "Do Dut - Do Dut - Do doody do Dut! (all around the mullberry bush....)"

hey, theres the perfect name for this system "Cop in a Box!"

the box would be bullet proof, the guy turning the crank would be on the side away from the building

it could be painted with flowers and rainbows and stuff

and the perp in the building would be looking out the window going "WTH is THAT?!"

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I just used this as a fun little bonus in my Principles of Engineering class. I had the kids figure out how far from the building the base would need to be & calculate the velocity of the projectile in ft/sec & MPH.
All I know is I don't want to be launced at that speed at the side of the building. I wouldn't need a bullet proof vest I would need bullet proof shorts.

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You mean, it's not a self-balancing crash dummy?!

This whole thread has me in stitches!

Last time I saw Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey, they DID launch a lady. EricH says it was from a catapult, not a cannon. But they preceded the lady's moment of stardom with a parade, music, elephants, and such-like hoopla, as only a circus can do. When they finally launched her, it was just a short POOF. "That's IT?" Not a big deal at all.

So I suppose a well-managed launcher could surprise the villains, after all (if that is its intended use).

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well, honestly, I was kind of thinking the crash dummy was
a John Wayne crash dummy and could possibly take that 'one leisurely step' a little stiffly a la crash dummy/John Wayne. Not sure about the underpants part though - never thought of John Wayne in underpants so I got sort of stuck in the visual.
--
I could see this having lots of uses.

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I just heard about this oddball contraption on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me on NPR (and their game "Bluff the Listener.") and I first thought it was a joke. Then I thought with the high school physics I have learned in mind...

Gee... this could work out... never really thought about it before... nah, can't be true... and then the result...

It was the true story.

:ahh::yikes:

I just fear birds getting in the way of the human projectile. But that I hope will be watched for when playing around *cough* I mean using the device.

Really? It lives? I mean, you siad it works, but it lives as well??? So tell me, how does it feel? What is it thinking about right now? Does the laucher have any opinions about who to first launch? And if it does, does it have any preference on how to launch him and where?

And gee, I must ask, besides breathing for pnumatics, does anyone feed it anything? :D

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We could have used one of those on our robot this year! :p

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Its been a little bit for this thread since the last post.. but I just saw this on HSW SWAT's idea for DARPA's "man-cannon"

Enjoy :)