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-   -   Looking for Mecanum Wheels (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47544)

Armando Gonzalez 21-05-2006 22:21

Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Anyone know where can i get mecanum wheels? We are working on a chassis for next year's competition and it involves mechanum wheels . . . but they are no where to be found.

^Example of one type of mechanum wheel^

Noah Kleinberg 21-05-2006 22:46

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Mecanum wheels rock :cool:

I think a company named airtrax makes them, but it might make more sense to make them yourself...

Armando Gonzalez 21-05-2006 22:51

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rustproof
Mecanum wheels rock :cool:

I think a company named airtrax makes them, but it might make more sense to make them yourself...

how do i make them?

Nitroxextreme 21-05-2006 23:10

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
If you have some patience...I believe they are coming to FIRST next year?

I was talking to team at nationals(dont remember number...will look up) and they had these awesome mecanum wheels.

So first question was how did you make them? Their response was that a company approached them and asked them to "test" the wheels out and make improvements. After further conversation I found out that they had done some serious "weight reduction" on them and that they hoped the company would consider the changes.


They also informed me that the company had wanted to release them this year for FIRST teams, but they could not meet the requirement of having enough for every team to buy a set. They also told me that we can plan on seeing them next year for sale for about $350 for a set of 4.

Again this is all from memory and they were still not absolutely positive they would be coming out this year....but wow if we can get "light" mecanum wheels for 350 a set...SIGN ME UP. :D

Noah Kleinberg 21-05-2006 23:10

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

how do i make them?
CNC most likely

Tytus Gerrish 21-05-2006 23:23

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
there are many ways to make Mecanum wheelers but almost nowhere to "buy them off the shelf" in any moderately convient size atleast they can be made by machining, bending plate bolting together Assemblies. whatever to get rollers mounted on a 45° around an Axel. feel free to pm me for more info

Richard Wallace 22-05-2006 00:26

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitroxextreme
If you have some patience...I believe they are coming to FIRST next year?

I was talking to team at nationals(dont remember number...will look up) and they had these awesome mecanum wheels.

So first question was how did you make them? Their response was that a company approached them and asked them to "test" the wheels out and make improvements. After further conversation I found out that they had done some serious "weight reduction" on them and that they hoped the company would consider the changes.


They also informed me that the company had wanted to release them this year for FIRST teams, but they could not meet the requirement of having enough for every team to buy a set. They also told me that we can plan on seeing them next year for sale for about $350 for a set of 4.

Again this is all from memory and they were still not absolutely positive they would be coming out this year....but wow if we can get "light" mecanum wheels for 350 a set...SIGN ME UP. :D

The mecanums you saw might have been the ones that NeilR announced back in December. Did they look like the thumbnails in that post? Those were some sweet looking wheels, and I hope they'll be available as COTS items for 2007.

Qbranch 22-05-2006 10:52

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rustproof
CNC most likely

This could be run on a 3 axis machine with a rotary axis. I think i could probably pull it off in 3 operations (rotary surfacing + drilling, top then bottom surfacing + boring of drive shaft hole)

This would be much much simpler on a trunion mill.... but those are hard to find ($$$)

It might be able to be done without the rotary axis, but you'd be there all day doing exacting setups for every roller on the wheel, then the surfacing on the top and bottom.

Someday when i have a lot of time i have nothing to do with i'll probably try this.

P.S. AIRTRAX does make mechanum wheels off-the-shelf. ;)
-Q

Tytus Gerrish 22-05-2006 10:58

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qbranch
P.S. AIRTRAX does make mechanum wheels off-the-shelf. ;)
-Q

yes but only as replacements for their products. they weigh way too much for a first robot. having 4 of those wheels will put you overweight before you even have a frame togeather

Andy Baker 22-05-2006 11:19

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
AndyMark will be selling 8" Mecanum wheels this fall. The design is based on sheet metal sides with bent tabs. These wheels were seen at team 45's pit at the Championships. The unofficial price target for each wheel will be between $75-$90. They will be available in the early fall (end of August).

PM me if you would like more information on these wheels.

Andy B.

ChuckDickerson 22-05-2006 12:16

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker
AndyMark will be selling 8" Mecanum wheels this fall. The design is based on sheet metal sides with bent tabs. These wheels were seen at team 45's pit at the Championships. The unofficial price target for each wheel will be between $75-$90. They will be available in the early fall (end of August).

PM me if you would like more information on these wheels.

Andy B.

Andy,

I got to see the new AndyMark Mecanum wheels in Atlanta and I love the simple elegant design. I was really bummed when I didn't win them! There was mention of a possible white paper on them to be posted on the TechnoKats website. Is this still fourth coming? How about posting a picture so that everyone that didn't get to see this much sought after COTS product can see what they have to look forward to. I predict many teams will have Mecanums this next year! Great job bringing these sort of products to the market for teams that don't have the resources to make them themselves. Kudos to you and Mark!

BTW: What sort of hub setup are you thinking of for the final design? For what it's worth I would love to see a setup compatable with IFI wheels with the same sort of 3/8" flanged bearings and sprocket hole pattern (6 on 1.875" IIRC). They would then be a drop in replacement on the KitBot chassis.

Gabe 22-05-2006 12:21

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Any more details? Wheel width, number of rollers, roller diameter & length (material?), and overall weight. All this would be helpful in thinking of a robot design that uses these wheels. :)

Could you attach a image of the mechanum wheels for those of us that were not there to see them? This would be nice.

lukevanoort 22-05-2006 17:05

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker
AndyMark will be selling 8" Mecanum wheels this fall. The design is based on sheet metal sides with bent tabs. These wheels were seen at team 45's pit at the Championships. The unofficial price target for each wheel will be between $75-$90. They will be available in the early fall (end of August).

PM me if you would like more information on these wheels.

Andy B.

And here we have another miracle to attribute to St. Baker of the Gears. Now, if only they could make all-in-one packages for DeWalt transmission conversion to the CIM motor to use with these forthcoming Mecanum wheels.

Richard Wallace 22-05-2006 17:51

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lukevanoort
And here we have another miracle to attribute to St. Baker of the Gears. Now, if only they could make all-in-one packages for DeWalt transmission conversion to the CIM motor to use with these forthcoming Mecanum wheels.

An awesome array of traction system components are offered by this supplier.

It will be very interesting to see how many 'bots are sporting "Powered by AndyMark" stickers on their chassis next year.

Andy Baker 22-05-2006 20:50

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepWater
Andy,

BTW: What sort of hub setup are you thinking of for the final design? For what it's worth I would love to see a setup compatable with IFI wheels with the same sort of 3/8" flanged bearings and sprocket hole pattern (6 on 1.875" IIRC). They would then be a drop in replacement on the KitBot chassis.

We'll be coming out with an assembly print within 10 days or so (there I go making promises...).

We definitely will have the 6 holes on a 1.875" pattern, which is what our polycarbonate omni-wheels and our Traction Wheels have. We were thinking to have a 1.124" hole in each side plate, for mounting a 1/2" id flange bearing, but if most people want to use 3/8" bearings, we can do a 0.874" hole. Now is the time to give us input on this.

We've debugged these wheels last fall, as TechnoKat students made a drive base and actually sat on it while driving it around our shop. The wheels held up beautifully, and strafed sideways better when they had an extra 100# on the drive base.

More to follow...

Andy B.

sanddrag 22-05-2006 20:52

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Personally, I'd prefer a 1/2" bore with a 1/8" keyway to use a live axle of the type, but that's just me. Perhaps such a hub will be available?

Kyle Love 22-05-2006 20:56

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepWater
Andy,

I got to see the new AndyMark Mecanum wheels in Atlanta and I love the simple elegant design. I was really bummed when I didn't win them! There was mention of a possible white paper on them to be posted on the TechnoKats website. Is this still fourth coming? How about posting a picture so that everyone that didn't get to see this much sought after COTS product can see what they have to look forward to. I predict many teams will have Mecanums this next year! Great job bringing these sort of products to the market for teams that don't have the resources to make them themselves. Kudos to you and Mark!

BTW: What sort of hub setup are you thinking of for the final design? For what it's worth I would love to see a setup compatable with IFI wheels with the same sort of 3/8" flanged bearings and sprocket hole pattern (6 on 1.875" IIRC). They would then be a drop in replacement on the KitBot chassis.

The mecanum wheels in Atlanta were not Andymark wheels, they were the TechnoKats. Some of you asked me if they would be Andymark products, now you know!:p

Andy Baker 22-05-2006 20:56

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sanddrag
Personally, I'd prefer a 1/2" bore with a 1/8" keyway to use a live axle of the type, but that's just me. Perhaps such a hub will be available?

Ask and ye shall receive. Such a hub is already available.

If we go with 1.124" holes for 1/2" flanged bearings, that Universal Hub fits right in the hole and mates up with the 1.875" hole pattern.

Thanks,
AB

Billfred 22-05-2006 21:05

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker
We'll be coming out with an assembly print within 10 days or so (there I go making promises...).

We definitely will have the 6 holes on a 1.875" pattern, which is what our polycarbonate omni-wheels and our Traction Wheels have. We were thinking to have a 1.124" hole in each side plate, for mounting a 1/2" id flange bearing, but if most people want to use 3/8" bearings, we can do a 0.874" hole. Now is the time to give us input on this.

Personally, I prefer the 3/8" shaft. I've built two robots this way with no complaints, and the compatability with the Kitbot is handy. (Of course, YMMV.)

On the other hand, you can get bearings with the right OD and ID off of McMaster-Carr. Perhaps offering both sets of bearings would do the job?

ChuckDickerson 22-05-2006 21:40

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Love
The mecanum wheels in Atlanta were not Andymark wheels, they were the TechnoKats.

Sorry 'bout that. My bad. Whoever designed them did a great job and I love 'em!

Joe_Widen 22-05-2006 21:44

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Heres a picture of the wheels the TechnoKatz had in Atlanta. I personally thought they were a bit bulky, but it was a good prototype. I hope for it to be more streamlined and a bit lighter. Those wheels must have weighted 4-6 pounds each. Well I would really like to give mad props to AndyMark for making a holonomic Drive system compatible with the KOP chassis. Now if you guys made small 14-1 gearboxes for one cim to compliment it, you'd be a FIRST God. O yeh, on a personal note, as much as I love these wheels, I'm going to try to steer my team away from it because I like having a unique design. I like the challenge of building something new, creative, innovative, beautiful, and works really good too and getting the satisfaction of building something that performs amazingly. Well I'm glad you made these mecanums and good luck to the teams who use them. Heres that picture. Sorry I made it a short monolouge there.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/25002

ChuckDickerson 22-05-2006 21:47

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker
We were thinking to have a 1.124" hole in each side plate, for mounting a 1/2" id flange bearing, but if most people want to use 3/8" bearings, we can do a 0.874" hole. Now is the time to give us input on this.

Not knowing your manufacturing process would both be an option? If not my thinking would be to go with the 3/8" setup (0.874" hole) and the user can just bore a larger hole as needed. It is always much more difficult to put metal back in the hole than it is to take it out.

Andy Baker 22-05-2006 21:56

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepWater
Sorry 'bout that. My bad. Whoever designed them did a great job and I love 'em!

Designer = TechnoKat mentor Mark Koors

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepWater
Not knowing your manufacturing process would both be an option? If not my thinking would be to go with the 3/8" setup (0.874" hole) and the user can just bore a larger hole as needed. It is always much more difficult to put metal back in the hole than it is to take it out.

This is a good point. We've got some time to make this decision. I also like the 3/8" bearing hole (~0.8745") for mainly this reason.

Andy B.

rachal 22-05-2006 22:06

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
These are the mecanums we're making for next year:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=46175

Blanks were cut from 3/4" plate on a CNC mill by our machinist, then everything else was done with a manual mill.

Nuttyman54 22-05-2006 22:09

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_Widen
I hope for it to be more streamlined and a bit lighter. Those wheels must have weighted 4-6 pounds each.

I'm not sure you CAN make them much lighter. With all the rubber on it, it gets heavy fast, and you need a good support structure. With how they're used, the wheels will take a good amount of sideways forces, and you need the structure to be strong enough to handle that, and then some. Now, I've got no good reference point, so 4-6 lbs may be excessive, but they will almost assuredly be heavier than any comparable standard wheel.

Andy, what material is the hub made out of, and are you using the same roller material as you have for the omnis?

Andy Baker 22-05-2006 22:20

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54
I'm not sure you CAN make them much lighter. With all the rubber on it, it gets heavy fast, and you need a good support structure. With how they're used, the wheels will take a good amount of sideways forces, and you need the structure to be strong enough to handle that, and then some. Now, I've got no good reference point, so 4-6 lbs may be excessive, but they will almost assuredly be heavier than any comparable standard wheel.

Andy, what material is the hub made out of, and are you using the same roller material as you have for the omnis?

We've not made production models yet. The prototype models have 1/8" side plates and black EPDM rubber as the rollers. The rollers would be best if made out of polyurethane, but availability and cost are factors. We will shoot for a 75-80A durometer, durable, concentric, economical, non-marking material.

AB

Greg Needel 22-05-2006 22:28

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker
We were thinking to have a 1.124" hole in each side plate, for mounting a 1/2" id flange bearing, but if most people want to use 3/8" bearings, we can do a 0.874" hole. Now is the time to give us input on this.


I think you should bore them to 1.124 and also make pressfit bushings available to easily convert them the .874 if needed.


In actuallity though you can buy bearings from mcmaster that are 3/8 and have an OD of 1.125.


edit: although andy are the holes on the hole pattern going to be #10 (like ifi sprockets and the deka plastic hubs or are they going to be 1/4 like your molded omni wheels?

Andy Baker 22-05-2006 22:39

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Needel
edit: although andy are the holes on the hole pattern going to be #10 (like ifi sprockets and the deka plastic hubs or are they going to be 1/4 like your molded omni wheels?

Ugh... thanks for reminding me of that mistake.

These holes will be #10 clearance holes (or M5), at 0.205-0.210 diameter.

The 0.250" holes in the omni-wheels were designed to be #10 clearance holes also, but our molder turned them into 0.250".


Andy B.

Richard Wallace 22-05-2006 22:44

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Needel
I think you should bore them to 1.124 and also make pressfit bushings available to easily convert them the .874 if needed.

I'll second (or vote for) that. Let the standard wheel be a fit for the standard hub.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baker
Ask and ye shall receive. Such a hub is already available.

If we go with 1.124" holes for 1/2" flanged bearings, that Universal Hub fits right in the hole and mates up with the 1.875" hole pattern.

Thanks,
AB


Jeremiah Johnson 24-05-2006 00:18

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
I'm sure there will be some sort of display for these at IRI right? Ed showed us some video of the BattleBot, Acoholic Stepfather using mecanum wheels and our team fell in love with them. Although I knew about them far ahead of time, I had not yet made any sort of presentation about them. Ed wants to experiment with mecanum drive over the summer I think.

ChuckDickerson 24-05-2006 12:54

Re: Looking for Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Needel
I think you should bore them to 1.124 and also make pressfit bushings available to easily convert them the .874 if needed.

Another option might be to make them 1.124 for the 1/2" ID flanged bearings and if someone wanted to use a 3/8" shaft just put a 3/8" ID / 1/2" OD flanged bronze bushing in the 1/2" ID roller bearing to take up the space. They are cheap (~$.50-$.75) and readily available from places like McMaster and MSC.


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