Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

have you downloaded and read the paper about the HHO gas? it's interesting...and does appear to be out for comment by serious researchers.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

I don't see how this applies, or is even plausible. To say that every original idea that is ridiculed and then attacked MUST be accepted seems foolish. It is true to say that every scientific claim should be attacked and tested before being accepted as true. That's not the same thing, however. Look at the story of N-Rays.

What I'm saying is, that just because something's being ridiculed and attacked doesn't mean there's some sort of merit there. Some times a spade really is just a spade.

EDIT: As to the claims in the paper... Obviously it's all original research. In fact, it's so original, that the vast majority of his sources are written by him. A brief skimming of it reveals that he's proposing an entirely novel way for molecules to bond that has nothing to do with valence bonding. On the whole it sounds rather odd to me, and no one else has done any followup research

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

This technology won't be arriving at any robotic shops for a while. When the cost for setting up a oxyhydrogen generator and tanks is less than the cost for setting up an oxyacetylene outfit, then maybe I'll go that way. Until then, I'll keep welding with acetylene.

You can use hydrogen instead of acetylene with a regular welding torch. All that is required is a separate hydrogen tank and dedicated regulator. In fact, you use the same torch and hose lines, as you see in every one of these movies.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

If you look at the unit he has displayed, its all self contained. Im sure it will grow bigger if the need applies.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

-Alright I will offer several rebuttals, however you have neither proven anything nor given us data to disprove.
-The second law of thermodynamics clearly states that you can not get out more energy than you put in. You can not put in 10Kj and get out 15Kj regardless of chemical composition.
-By traditional bonding theories a H-H-O gas can not exist. Using quantum bonding theories hydrogen will only accept 2 valence electrons.
-Mr. Forbes's article is perhaps the most scientific however there are several errors. The numerous graphs were taken using IR measures. Infra-red has been shown to be an inaccurate way to measure any Hydrogen Oxygen combination. The low specific heat of hydrogen burning causes fluctuating and unreliable results. Also the bond the author refers to as HxH-O is not explained fully. I can see no valid scientific reason that polarized hydrogen atoms would bond in such a way.
-As to his remarkable displays of welding technology the same can be achieved much faster with an oxyacetylene torch.

There have been many valid scientific replies to this post Mr. Perkins; you have not rebutted any of them.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Touche, Scientist I am not, however I do believe what I see. You ask me why grass is green, I'll tell you because I percieve it as green, you ask me why water is wet, I'll tell you it's wet because I can feel it. I'll admit first hand, I BARELY passed chemistry in college, so your knowledge of chemistry I assume is better than mine. I saw this article on the news, the news which I BELIEVE 90% of the time shows true articles. What I see gives me all the evidence I need to believe this, yeah you can bludgeon me with calculations and chemical equations of to why this can't be possible, when in fact I am seeing it work. Could this just be an elaborate hoax to something else? Sure, but don't try arguing with a perceptionist. Matt I do appologize if I came across rather rude, and I do appreciate the respect you used for calling me "Mr. Perkins"; I just think sometimes the internet askews one's intent.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Thank you for your respect for my views. I am also quite sorry if my initial statement was some what rude. As to arguing with you I have come to realize that neither of us can do that with any accuracy. I have no aquagen to preform test independent testing on and so I will rest in my case.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

This business is at least a source of entertainment that can be
achieved with a couple of carbon rods, grommets, a soda bottle,
and a welder with good current control,

http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/aqfdem.htm

but don't blame me if you try this at home and run into
trouble with respect to some of the obvious safety hazards.

Assuming that it really is just pure distilled water in the bottle,
the question of just what the flammable gas coming out of
the process is, and how it got made, is a worthy one before
you even get to the question of energy in versus energy out.

When asking and answering these questions, however, it is best
to stick to the scientific method and an exaustive analysis using
science as we know it before jumping to any conclusions of there
being new unknown science in play.

Have fun,
Eugene

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

I was just reading the paper, and the explanation seems a little odd. I don't know, I'll ask my Dad about it this weekend. (He has a Ph.d in Chemistry)

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Buy a Brown's gas welder from these folks and maybe they'll tell you how you can neutralize radioactive waste with it :)

http://www.eagle-research.com/browng...es/possib.html

There's a lot of discussion here: http://www.phact.org/e/bgas.htm including a statement about getting "more heat energy out of hydrogen than the ELECTRICAL energy you put into an electrolysis cell by a factor of up to 1/6th. The rest comes from ambient input heat to an endothermic reaction if voltage is between 1.27 and 1.47 volts".

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Wow! Have I taken a pounding here! My intent with the Schoepenhauer quote was not to point fingers at those who were discussing this topic and label their arguments as "ridicule" or an "attack". The quote was merely to remind people that many of the ideas that we take for granted today (a car in every garage and a PC in every home) were once considered novelties or thought of as having little potential impact on our world. The quote is not meant to be taken literally as a whole but rather as an idea or concept that gets us to be more open-minded about what is possible.

Sean

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Thats a pretty amazing website dick, you think if you drink that stuff you will become immortal. Im still skeptical about this stuff, but i have done a paper on hydrogen and its potential to power cars, thats where we should be focusing on. The two main problems with the hydrogen that have yet to be solved are the size of the fuel cell, and the mass production of hydrogen. The fuel cells, to be reasonably sized and have reasonable power, need to be scaled down just a bit more. They are very close. However, extracting hydrogen from the elements around it in the most efficient manor requires the use of fossil fuels, so while gaining on using the hydrogen in cars, we are losing it right back in the hydrogen extraction. So, knowing our country, these problems will be overcome and i say hydrogen is the fuel of the future.
-Eric

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Hey, I'm not trying to slam anyone or anything, just pointing out some of the background and controversy here. I have no doubt that the hydrogen/oxygen fuel does have specific applications where it is well suited. No doubt more uses will be found for joining dissimilar materials and the like. I'm more than willing to believe in some miracle breakthrough, but it's hard to overlook good, solid, proven science.

As for hydrogen and fuel cells, unless we discover some magic formula, it's basically not much more than a battery. Put energy in to get energy out. Perhaps it can be slightly more efficient, or cleaner, but I'm not all that excited about it.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

As I read it, Brown's gas is proven neutralize radioactive waste in Canada. So, instead of shipping radioactive waste to Yucca Mtn in Nevada, the US should plan on sending it to Manitoba...with some Brown's gas on the side.

Re: Welding with....WATER???
 

Maybe with a side of cole slaw? There's more than one way to get gas...

Honestly, I'd love for someone to come up with something new, but there's just too much voodoo surrounding this to excite me. Specific applications, yes. A cure-all? I don't think so.