FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Ok, so here's the background info on this poll. Today in Geometry, we somehow got onto a discussion about what was a sport and what wasn't. My teacher flat-out refused to recognize what we do in FIRST as being even remotely a sport, even when I pointed out all the work we did (staying at school till like 7, 8, or even nine every day, plus some Saturdays, and then going to regionals and all the work there). Half of my beef is that things like band have varsity jackets at our sister school, and FIRST can't even be recognized as a sport? Sure, so we're not sprinting as fast as we can or tackling people (track and football), but we're running a marathon for work to meet a deadline. I'd love to see the football team at my school try and do what we do. On Dictionary.com, this is the definition of "sport":

1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of above activity.
3. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
4. An active pastime; recreation.

In my opinion, this validates FIRST as a sport. Physical activity by the team is involved, and there is also extreme mental activity. You also have to be skilled (driving, programming, building, etc...)


So, in conclusion, this is just a random poll to see what people think of the committment required when you're in FIRST.

P.S.- the sport & varsity jacket option is there because I've heard of schools that have jackets for FIRST, and there was a proposal by the team to get them at our school. (Edit: varsity jackets or some other thing recognized by the school, eg. calling it a team not a club.)

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

I think the FIRST competition falls more along the lines of a competition rather than a sport. My only reason for this is that the FIRST game changes every year, but most "sports" have a set of rules that stay more or less the same forever.

In my opinion, FIRST is better than a sport. :)

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

I want a "Not a sport, design your own jackets" category. While FIRST is certainly a competition, I am not sure it falls under the category of "sport". Is Math Team or Model UN considered a 'sport'?

Why do you really want a varsity jacket anyway? They're not nearly as warm as team hoodies :D

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

To me, a sport is an activity that requires allot of physical activity, and that can be done in a P.E class (excluding any sports like swimming, that can't really be done in a class).

Yes, FIRST is a competition. Yes FIRST has physical exertion, but it's not the same. You don't really build muscle like you do in "normal" sports. If anything, FIRST is a sport for the mind.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

I dont think FIRST is a sport by defination. My defination of a sport is something that is played...sorry playing a musical instrument doesnt count. neither is Track...you dont PLAY track. These things that you dont play may be worthy of a letter such as track or band or FIRST all of which i think desearve a letter...(but not really the band at my school but thats regardless)...but I dont think it is a sport by my defination. But still worthy of a letter.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

I don't know, on our team, we build a little muscle. Hacksaws are our cutting tool of choice, even though we use newbies for a lot of our manual labor, such as the hacksawing, (gotta learn tool safety/use somehow) veteren members still do a good bit. We also tend to use hammers in our robot contruction quite a bit... Accidents also give a good chance to build muscle, for example, this year we forgot that we would have to reopen a gearbox to grease it the next day, so we put high-strength Loctite on the screws holding it together... we had to get a team member who is a 6'7" black belt to open them.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Well you do build some muscle, but I really meant like getting 90% of your mussels moving, and actually getting your whole body into shape. No offence to anyone, but Robot Building isn't going achieve that, no matter how hard you try.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Yah, I'm not on Mechanical, but as far as I know, that's generally NOT a good idea lol.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

FIRST robotics competitions are, without question, a sport. Look up the definition of sport in any dictionary and it will read something like this:

"A sport consists of a physical and mentally competitive activity carried out with a recreational purpose for competition, for self-enjoyment, to attain excellence, for the development of a skill, or some combination of these. A sport has physical activity, side by side competition, self-motivation and a scoring system. The difference of purpose is what characterises sport, combined with the notion of individual (or team) skill or prowess."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport (click and read on for more info on what a sport is and the history of sports if you are so inclined)

After all, if fishing is a sport then FIRST competitions are most definitely a sport. However, FIRST as a whole is much more than a sport because the competitions are only part of FIRST. The real question is how do you define a World changing, one of a kind, life altering experience like FIRST with only one word?

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Uh, guys, could you do a little searching? This came up about three months ago. I'm not sure what other threads there are on this topic, but the one referenced has definitions and a poll.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

2 thoughts:

1. a FIRST robotics team working with a Special Olympics team - I'd consider that sports.

2. One of our team leaders commented on the very first pep rally send off for the team before the bus left for Atlanta this year. He called it a win for academics.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Some look at sports as physically demanding.

Sailing is a sport. How physically demanding is that? It takes a few pulling of ropes that aren't 130 pounds.

I'd say FIRST somewhat physically demanding. Some team members need to be able to lift that robot, tighten screws, do all sorts of stuff like that. There may not be as much of it as football or other traditional sports.

It's an leisurely activitiy. It can get you scholarships. It has a better chance of getting you a job than other sports. I'd say it's more than a sport.

There are are a few things that separate it from being a sport. You can get a group of kids from your neighborhood together to play basketball, but you can't do that so easily with FIRST and the game changes in FIRST every year.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

You should have added another category "FIRST is not a sport, but you should still get varsity jackets anyways."

I don't think FIRST is a sport because it doesn't require physical exertion (thats a good thing). True, FIRST involves teamwork, but not all sports involve teamwork.

I think for all the effort that goes into building a robot your school should definitely reward you. Whether that be with varsity jackets or college credits.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

If FIRST is a sport, it shouldn't be classified as such because you need muscle to tighten screws. I work harder for an hour in the gym than I do six weeks in FIRST (although I am a programmer.) Nonetheless, if you aren't physically hurting the next day I wouldn't call it demanding...

The more I think about it, the less of a sport FIRST is. Would you call your chess club a sport? Is debate team a sport? As someone else mentioned, Model UN? However, I don't think not being a sport is necessarily a bad thing. Sport is just a classification, what we do in FIRST is so much more. We innovate, we spend hours, days, weeks trying to figure out how to most efficiently throw a foam ball through a hoop. You don't do anything relatively close to FIRST in any other sport, game or club. FIRST is very unique and that is something to be proud of.

As far as jackets go, if band gets one you should get one. If only sports get them... you're out of luck. I'd rather have a custom designed team jacket anyways.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

FIRST is not a 'sport', per say, but because of the vast amounts of time and effort that most students put into their team, I do believe that it is worthy of a varsity letter.

I know that for varsity tennis, I would put in at least 6 hours per day of court time and/or training every day for months before the season began, but during the actual season, practice was barely 90 minutes, if we even had it. I worked my butt off for years (lets just say I began young) to earn those varsity letters, but still, the in-season time pales in comparison to the hours that I logged for robotics. Out of season time is a horse of a different color.

The same applies to a number of other groups at my school - most notably band. Trying to compare sheer physical output to extended committment and achievement is like comparing Apples to... well, you get the picture :)

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

At MHS we get varsity letters for FIRST.
That doesn't mean it's a sport. In fact our school recongizes it as an activity.
However, my choir, the debate team, the band....etc all get letters even though they aren't sports

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

I believe that first is a club, it is a game, it is a competition, and it is a learning experience, but it is not a sport. Go into a sport store... Will you find and ounce of extruded aluminum, or maybe a speed controller... no, you won't. Also, I don't know about you, but I'm winded after a running a city block, my mile time was 7:40, and I can't do more that 8 pull-ups anymore. I am not an athlete, and I am not in a sport.

More than once, I have had to lift the robot, but I lift it for maybe 5 seconds at a time, and maybe once every 5 minutes (at a hectic time). Weight lifters do this for hours on end, and with far heavier weights than 120 lbs, especially since the 120 lbs is usually shared between 3 or more people. I have also had to make a "mad dash" to get to my driver station on time... but as anyone who has done this while pulling a robot through a crowd can attest to, my maximum speed was 5 miles an hour, hardly a brisk pace. Once again, I am not an athlete, and I am not in a sport.



Another thing. If my friends all of the sudden make a “fantasy walking league”, does that make walking a sport?



I have a feeling that a lot of us here in FIRST only want to consider this a sport so that we can check the little box on a survey that says “I Participate in a high-school athletics program." And pat ourselves on the back for being "just as good" as the football, or basketball players. I won't hold myself to those standards, because I don’t play in a sport, and I am not an athlete. Truth is... We, being children of FIRST, have a much better chance of succeeding in life while doing what we want to be doing than a football player does. Tell me a sport that 3 teams have to band together to win... show me a sport that the athletes are as friendly with their opponents as they are their allies.



And one last point... is this web page... It gives a brief history of sports.

http://fermi.univr.it/cla/webclass/Facchinetti/motorie/02-03/origin_of_sports.htm

I am convinced that FIRST is wholly different from a sport... Convince me otherwise.

ORIGINALLY HERE

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

The more and more I think about it, the more and more I consider FIRST a sport. This is simply by comparing it to racing (if you consider it a sport, I do). They spend time building and working on cars. they have a driver and a pit crew.
I know the driver must be pretty strong and have a lot of stamina to drive. A FIRST driver needs to last roughly 2 minutes. This is not what I consider a Le Mans 24 hour race.
Howver close it may be to NASCAR or F1 racing, I still don't fully think of it as a sport. I know this may seem like an overly stated statement. But FIRST is much more than a sport and the robot. You have to raise funds, you have a business like setup with leaders for most sub groups, you have mentoring, and outreach.
However it is still much less than a sport in that there is nowhere near the amount of physical exertion involvd. Come on, you cut, drill, mill, code, solder, make crimps, and other things like that. I don't consider that up to the physical exertion needed to smash a homerun out of the park or tackle a 230 lb. Bus, or slam dunk over someone.
So I guess this post was pretty confusing and contradicts itself a bit, but all in all, I don't fully consider FIRST Robotics a sport.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Let's compare one of the least physically demanding of all sports (and yes, it's a sport, but no, football/baseball/etc. all beat it in terms of physical standards needed to play), Band. The Herndon High School Marching Band logs 108 hours of practice before school even starts, minimum (the freshmen, section leaders, and drum line each start a week earlier). Then you have during school rehersals, after-school rehersals, football games, saturday practices, and competitions on top of that. During the 1st quarter of school, the Marching Band easily logs as many hours as you do in FIRST all year (pre-season, build, competition, and post-season).
No, FIRST is NOT a sport. It's a game, yes. It's a competition, yes. Does it demand some physical ability and/or coordination, yes. But it is not on par with any real sports.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

OK, so I guess I needed to think the poll through a little more. So, we now have two options. I don't know how many of you guys would like the idea (I don't want to be yelled at for making threads with similar topics), but the first option is to make a thread like this, except v2., with more options. Or we can leave it like this. Suggestions? (I hate not being a mod on forums and not being able to delete threads when you don't want them, even if they're only my own.)

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

FIRST is not a sport. For something to be a sport IMO it has to:

1. Be physically strenuous. This means that you have to work out to remain competitive in it. (Lugging batteries around does not count).
2. The most compicated tool used is a simple machine.
In other words no FIRST or racecars.
3. There has to be direct competition between two or more PEOPLE. In other words no horse races and no racing against the clock.
4. Scoring can't be subjective. In other words figure skating and gymnastics aren't sports while baseball, football, and soccer are.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

If FIRST is not a sport then why is there a J&J SPORTSMANSHIP Award?

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Sportsmanship is not confined to sports. Chess is not usually considered a sport, but you should display sportsmanship.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

There is always Golf.
What exactly are Science Olympiad and Oddesy of the Mind considered. I think FIRST would fall under that category, it is just that FIRST is 29857475^4543 times cooler.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Um.. What is FIRST FCC?? Care to explain what FCC stands for in that instance?

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

I agree with you about sports. And even though I dread NASCAR, racing is a sport. Drivers can lose 10 pounds of sweat in a single NASCAR race. Driving at those speeds, in those stakes, with that amount of precision, for that long IS a physical activity.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

the ropes might not weigh that much, but what ever is on the other end might.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Wow thread revival....

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

No one DID ever answer my question as to what the heck FCC stood for.
I'm thinking it was a typo for FRC maybe? :confused:

(Oh, and the sad thing was I didn't realize this thread was old until I saw some old school FIRSTers' pics who had posted, & looked at the date since I know they haven't been around for a while.)
"You know you've been involved in FIRST too long when..." moment much? lol :p

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Sports involve cardiac exertion, where blood gets pumping and the mind has to focus in spite of the limbs screaming for no more. Thus, FRC isn't a sport. If anything the stress of it can take years off of our lives should we over involve ourselves. It also cannot replace a regular workout to keep one's health in check like most sports can. It's definitely something beyond a "club competition", but sport it is not.

I'd recommend anyone who's considering it to get a class ring with the FIRST logo on it. My varsity jacket from high school football has been gathering dust in my closet since my freshman year of college, yet I'm out of college 4 years now and wear my college class ring several times a week.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

The 1st few years I did FIRST I lost over 40 lbs. I went from being quite overweight to pretty good shape. My activity level was so high I was eating everything in sight. In 2007 when the Chairman's photo was being shot on the competition floor I remember my pants barely wanted to stay up from some much exertion and weight loss. And my legs were absolutely killing me from all the running around.

When I'm not doing FIRST I'm gaining weight like a washed up retired football player. When doing FIRST I can barely keep any weight on. And if you do robotics and team activities all year long then there isn't any chance to regain the weight.

Combined with a healthy diet and exercise, FIRST is a perfect complement to a weight loss plan !

While not strictly in the same class as cross country or greco roman wrestling FIRST can be very physically demanding.

A co-worker of mine is a member of NASCAR and is a pit crew member. That is very demanding also !

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

FWIW, I've been playing chess for a number of years now. Every now and then some discussion about whether chess is a sport pops up in the chess community. Even though chess has been on ESPN (Kasparov vs X3DFritz), there are still very few who would actually consider chess a sport.

Soooo, let's remember that FIRST isn't the only competition trying to gain some momentum and gain some publicity. But calling it a sport is not a good way to do that. Anyone who defines FIRST as a sport is opening up a can of worms for stuff like chess to be considered a sport. And that's an argument that can't really be won.

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Poker is on ESPN more than Chess is. It still isn't a sport.

Or rather, if poker is a sport, with little to no physical exertion, then can you tell me why FIRST isn't a sport?

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

Team 1023 made this video to convince our school to allow us to give varsity letters. We compared FIRST to sports in it. I do feel it fits the dictionary definition of a sport!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-CVg0QAyg

Re: FIRST FCC: A Sport or Not?
 

It's a sport. Here's how I get there:

Horse racing is a group of sports in which a team of people attempt to pair an optimally designed (or bred, if you prefer) horse with a good driver (jockey).

Horse and carriage racing is a group of sports (harness racing, or if you go back a bit farther, chariot racing). To compete you need to have an optimally designed horse and carriage, and a good driver.

Car racing is a group of sports. For this we get to dispense with the horse, and the carriage gets a bit more complicated. You still need good design, and good driver, and you add in a pit crew to make adjustments during breaks in play (i.e. pit stops) for the types of car racing that last long enough to have them. The people designing the cars, building the cars, maintaining the cars, and driving the cars are all considered part of the team.

If you look at FIRST, it looks a lot like car racing (particularly in 2008 ;) ). We have a designed and constructed vehicle, a driver, a pit crew, and the intervals between matches are very much like pit stops. We even have the same sponsorship issues, if on a different scale.

As a side note, the International Olympic Committee recognizes both chess and billiards as sports. Non-Olympic, sure, but so is baseball. :]