Robot Ethics?
 

Alright. I asked my teacher kindly the other day if i could tear this years robot to shreads so i could recycle the parts and model them on CAD over the summer some more.

I guess i have permission to demolish the child, but other kids are telling me its "sentimental" and should be kept. We kept our first years robot, but i was wondering if it is "unkind" to the robots feelings to do this....please help.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

I have a question, why must you tear your robot to pieces when most of the parts are available allready for CAD? I mean there's www.firstcadlibary.com there's the Virtual KOP, and you pretty much can model everything else while still keeping your robot intact.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

If you have the space, please leave it intact. I can't even tell you how many times I've wished we didn't break down our 2003 and 2002 bots.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

You can learn alot from your previous robots. We have over 15 years of robots sitting around our site and you can guess how that helped us immensely. It even was one of the main reasons we got a Motorola Quality award (as read during the presentation). It's worth your time to keep that robot intact because you can learn alot from it no matter where it finished in the competition.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

http://www.firstcadlibrary.com/ <Correct link {thank you Li}

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Keeping old robots is a good idea for several reasons: you can learn a lot from them (what went right and what went wrong), they're great for demonstration, and they're good to go back and look at years later ("remember in 2001 when we had that giant claw? Something similar would work great for this year - let's go look at the old one!")

Perhaps you could compromise. Take off one component at a time and model it, but be sure to replace it before you tear anything else off. That way the robot stays (mostly) intact, and will still be usable in the future.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

AHHH!!! DONT DO IT!!! you should really keep it intact for at least 1 yr after the game, its good to teach new members on.
and i like your teams design this past season :)

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Our team has doesn’t have much room to keep old robots, but we try to keep at least one robot fully intact at all times. If you have the room to keep it, then you should. There’s always stuff you can either learn from it, or do with it.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

and one more thing, keep it together and you can compete in the RCCR II in october

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

We keep all of the team robots. The smaller, older ones decorate the walls of the classroom. The larger FIRST robots are stored safely. Last week the team took extra precautions to raise them off of the floor and cover them in plastic sheeting just in case there is another major roof leak over the summer break. There are so many uses to be had, so many opportunities. One that I can think of is how the new team members like to disassemble and reassemble parts of the robots as a learning process. I do have to admit to being sentimental towards the robots though - absotively posilutely.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

We always keep at least the last year's robot intact. In the last month I think we have had 2 demos for potential sponsors, with another coming up, and they go much better when you have a functional robot. We try to keep them intact longer than that, but they seem to turn into parts for various projects when no one is looking.

Also, our software team usually uses the previous year's robot as a test bed until we get something working each year.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

I understand that you want to improve your CAD skills. May I suggest, however, that you take into account your entire team's feelings? Perhaps it would be more appropriate to vote on this as a team, and discuss it, rather than letting one person take apart the robot. Though your intentions seem positive, the robot was created by the team, so its future should be decided with the impact of everybody who contributed.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

I agree with Katie Reynolds: Do you have to damage it to disassemble it? Just reassemble it when you're done, and all's well.

Having a robot for the drive team to play with during the off season is valuable.

Don

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

If you look at your robot as an engineering prototype, and add up all the time and materials that went into it

then for the average team that prototype machine 'cost' around $30,000.

You better have a really good reason for destroying a $30,000 investment.

Its not a question of sentiment or ethics, its a matter of logic and responsibility. There are many things you can use an intact robot for, student science days, demos for grade schools, off season competitions, fundraising...

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

another vote for the "don't do it" choice.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Noooo! Don't do it! :)

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Don't do it, we still have the 384 wall of fame, and I love it.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

I'm sad to say that the only one of our robots that is intact is the 2006 'bot (and rest assured THAT one will be enshrined forever in some kind of trophy case!).

Don't take it apart, even if you say to yourself that it's just temporary - you'll never get the various people required motivated enough to put it back together, should you ever want to do so.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Since it's this year's robot, I say don't take it apart. If you're short on space, do it in a year or two like we do (it's actually a nice little fun activity, people hitting pieces with hammers trying to get the robot apart). You need something to show off for recruitment, sponsor visits, and other demonstrations, so at least keep it around until you finish building next year's.

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As a voice for the teammates yet to come, don't do it. It is truely inspirational to see a teams legacy of older robots. As Ken said, your robot is a serious investment and should be treated well.

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Your reason doesn't seem strong enough to warrant a tear down.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Please don't tear your robot apart. We have made that mistake. Some robots are destin to be scrap, its a matter of time & use. There is no reason you should tear that robot apart.

So again, Please NO! If you need a place to keep it until October or next year please let me know.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

For the sake of just using it for CAD drawings, taking an assembly and drawing it is right, as long as you put it back. As for when you should disassemble your robot for good, well thats going to be different for every team and should be in a different thread, which there might already be one.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

If there is any way possible to keep a robot, keep it. I can't tell you how many times I've regretted disassembling an old robot. It always seems that as soon as you take a robot apart, the next year's game will require you to design a mechanism similar to the one you just destroyed. There are few better learning and teaching tools in FIRST than an old robot... so think carefully before you take one apart. You can always try to stash it in a team member's basement (or bedroom... someone on my team did that once), but if you take it apart because "we ran out of space"... it's gone forever.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Your old robot is the main key to recruit more people to the team. Our team use it most of the time to advertise our team and spark interest among high schoolers for science and technology.
I'd like to mention that if you get a chance upgrade your robot to something interesting. Like our team made a basketball launcher and a mechanical knight out of our old robot. Its not dismantling it, but more like using it to learn new things and at the same time recruit more people out of it.
Its better to use it for something, then putting it away, while it rusts in a warehouse or anywhere else.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

While I agree with your conclusion Ken, I must dis-agree with your logic. The money's spent on a finished robot are "sunk costs". They will not be recovered whether the robot is kept or destroyed. The reasons for keeping an old robot are things like using it as a tool to further inspiration.

Matt B

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

hahaaa. ok so maybe i dramatized the "tear apart". It is already in nonworking condition though, but someone made a good point that newbies the next year would get to see how it was built to solve the problem. My only fear is that i wont be able to get it in working condition again, and people will blame me.

btw, ive seen the first cad library, and A) it doesnt have a lot of the parts we use, and B) i have way more fun doing it myself, not that i dont approve of it. It is quite handy as a reference

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

well no, you cant get the investment back (how do you recycle invested time?!)

you run into this all the time in engineering - the first protoypes of a system you plan to build and sell for $500 might cost you $5k to $20k each. If the project gets shelved then all you have to show for the investment is two or three very expensive prototypes

at this point in the FIRST program each team robot has a value far beyond the sum of the components it contains. If you wanted the parts you could get everything that came in the KOP for another $4k or so, but if you wanted to build another robot just like the one you have, it would still cost you around $30,000 - because it would still be a hand built, one-off prototype.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

to rephrase what everyone else has said: Leave the dang thing together.

You also shouldn't mess with the robot if the other peoples on your team will be all upset. no, robots dont actually have emotions, but its kind of insulting to the thing. i mean, you slaved over it for six weeks, went to competion(s), worked on it some more there, and now you want to take it apart??? this is may be what some of your team members are thinking, and you should consider their thoughts.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

We use our old robots often for the purpose of demoing for our existing and potential sponsors.

Having three robots running at once is a great way to drum up interest :yikes:

(Picking up balls, shooting balls, moving tetras :rolleyes: )

-Q

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Don't take it apart unless it is absolutely essential. A few bits and pieces of some of our old robots have been taken off due to the fact that we absolutely needed a few of the parts, but we have never completely ripped one apart.

I remember my first robotics meeting, which was in the middle of September of this year. Some of the seniors took us freshman into our back room where we store everything. We have a shelf in there with about 5 robots on it. We were really able to get a sense of history just by seeing those retired bots up there. I looked at them, and realized what I was getting myself into. I was looking upon a legacy that I was about to become a part of. As some of the members told us about the robots, I was able to realize how much each of them meant to them.

Each season has its triumphs and some have its difficulties, and the robot is a symbol of what happened that year. Just think of the amount of time you spent working on that robot, testing it, programming it, designing it, building it, fixing it, etc. Now, do you really want to get take apart something you put so much into, just for a few more detailed CAD drawings? In a few year's time, you may revisit your old team (if you're still not with them, of course), and if you keep that robot, you can look back at it and remember how great this season was, or how you wished you had done better, or whatever.

Keep the robot around. It could be useful for inspiring rookies like me, or giving them a sense of history.

Besides, old bots are great for teaching new members programming, or even some of the mechanical aspects of building a robot.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Even though we're on the same team, I completely agree. Now a junior, I still remember being in Elementary School and hearing of our teaming winning the National Championship in 2000. I later got a chance to see that robot in middle school during the robot demos the team did. Then I got a chance to see 2003's National Finalist robot. For me, the robot is something more than just a few pieces of metal and electronics. Each robot represents something unique. It represents all the hard work that team members put into it. It is an everlasting(hopefully) showcase of all the sweat and toil put into an amazing machine.

I'm glad we have every robot since 2000...every time I walk into that back room I stop for a second and look at them and their legacy. As Alexa said, it's something quite amazing, quite inspiring...quite touching.
Through those robots I get a sense of the people that worked on it. I see a connection with the past and all the members of the team that have moved on. I know we'll never retire our 2000,2003, or this year's bot. They've been amazing.

But an amazing robot is much more than one that has had an impressive record of wins or one that's one lots of awards. An amazing robot is one that sticks truly in your heart as something that inspires you, something that moves you, something that helps you remember amazing times.

If this robot means something to you, if it strikes at some kind of passion in your heart, if it produces even a modicum of sentiment...I'd say keep it. Perhaps you can inspire more people. Perhaps you'll have something to look back at. Perhaps you'll have something to practice and train with. Or maybe you'll just have good memories. :)

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

well i wouldnt sya demolish it but maybe you could just recycle the electronics, motors, chains, possibly wheels if they are the kind you will use the following year. but it's good to keep the robot so you can learn from any mistakes from its build.Besides, if it's a good lokking robot it may always be used to impress people so they hopefully join the team or you can impress people and hopeflly then give donations.

Re: Robot Ethics?
 

Sounds like your team puts on an impressive show. I'm trying to get our fleet to a point where we can do that, our '06 robot can, '05 sorta can but the arm won't work (limit switches were unplugged and pins aren't labeled), '04 could, but it might be a bit dangerous (chassis is loose, needs to be partially reassembled), '03 can (our only fully functional robot), '02 isn't going anywhere (a drill transmission was blown last year), '01 doesn't exist anymore. So that makes one ball shooter, one box pusher, one tetra grabber (assuming the arm gets fixed), and one big boxy thing with an arm. (I think the arm either lost a manipulator somewhere or was only designed for hanging) Hopefully '01 will come back to life in the form of a T-shirt cannon robot.

On topic. Robot disassembly is good and bad. I'd say practice CAD by designing something since that's how you'll be doing it during competition. If you must disassemble something, remove one mechanism, CAD it, reassemble. That way you get more mechanical experience too. Worst case scenario, leave a husk, that way at least drivetrain/chassis people can get ideas.