Forum Rules Updates
 

FYI, there have been some minor forum rules changes. They are specifically in paragraph 7 of the rules, and highlighted in red/bold below:If you have any questions about this change in rules, please ask here and one of the Chief Delphi team leaders will respond with answers.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Does this mean that things that aren't robotics related, even in the Chit-Chat forum, are now prohibited?

What problem is this new rule intended to eliminate? Is it a response to the recent political discussions in the Chit-Chat forum?
I am just curious about it's intent and implications - what is an example of an acceptable offtopic discussion, and what isn't.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Looks to be just a back up clause that will be pulled out incase any more threads come up that aren't robotics related that cause a problem. There is no way Chit-Chat will be removed, but I imagine that if someone posted another "which religion and you" thread and had it removed, they can point to this rule, which simply means, CD can do what it wants with any thread not pertaining to robotics specifically.

Of course, this is how I view it, the CD "gods" might want to elaborate more.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

I have a feeling that you're right and this may have to do with the amount of Political topics that came up recently. I for one saw them, didn't read them so I don't really know what happened inside. But from what I hear they we're fairy controversial.

I don't think chit-chat section should be prohibited and we can leave that discussion here

Though, something I've seen aren't entirely 100% appropriate. One thread for example is the one about Adam Richards and myself (which is now closed). I look back on that now and it just seems so...childish? And actually, I'd like to say that I'm sorry for allowing that thread to get so big, I should of requested that it be closed it along time.

Yes, Chief Delphi is a FIRST Forum but does everything have to be about it...not really. Just a quick browse threw the chit-chat forum and you see allot of threads that carry on stories about a certain topic that may be a spin off of something FIRST related. And then you see some things about what people who are in FIRST may have in common (AP Test scores, watching the world cup..etc, etc) they have nothing to do with FIRST but yet give us a common place to discuss something we may or may not know about.

I think in the end, it's all up to Brandon and the moderators. We shouldn't take advantage (not calling anyone out, just a statement) of what they're providing for us by posting things that could incriminate FRC 47, their sponsors or anything, anyone or any form of any I may have missed.

Just my $0.02

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

I have to echo Jaine's question.

Does this mean that CD can arbitrarily delete anything they feel like in the chit-chat section? It sounds like movie discussions, TV shows, philosphical thoughts, as well as religious & political debate are now open for deletion.

I do see the caviot that it "reserves the right", but it seems like shaky ground, instead of prohibiting all non-robotics related, its wishy-washy and could easily lead to a "this moderator doesnt like me" or something like that.

While personally, I think CD moderators do a good job currently of monitoring debates, I think the change to this rule either does nothing other than make it public that they have free will to do whatever they want with threads, or it shuts down (or scares) the entire chit-chat section. To one person, myspace might be a really heated topic, to another, politics might be... while I realize its difficult to define, it would be more understandable to define what is acceptable and what isnt.

With the heated discussions recently, if it bothered me, I would turn off chit-chat, everyone has that option.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Your explaination makes sense, but the clause's placement made me a little bit confused because all threads which violate the law or are harmful to other members would probably be deleted/closed unconditionally. However, not all non-robotics related discussions would be deleted/closed unconditionally. This could lead to some confusion - some people might think that having an offtopic discussion is just as serious an offense as posting about file-sharing.

But, if the rule is as Joe interpreted, I would say that this isn't a bad addition, but perhaps not as clear as it could be. Also, if the rule has the same intent as what Joe described, why doesn't that fit under the "harmful to other members" section of the clause? If a political debate is getting out of hand and people are getting upset, couldn't the thread be closed under the premise that it is "harmful to other members" instead of under the premise that it is not "robotics related"? Thats why I asked what problem this addition was intended to address.

edit: Again, why wouldn't this fall under the "harmful to other members" section of the clause?

I don't think this rule is bad, I'm just asking for clarification about it's intended solution to a problem.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

The rule doesn't prohibit them. It merely marks them explicitly as off topic for the ChiefDelphi forums, and provides a safety valve for legitimately removing discussions that might otherwise hover at a subjective boundary between appropriate and inappropriate topics.

I think making the phrase "robotics related" part of the rules is a good thing. This is supposed to be a forum for discussing robotics. It isn't set up as a forum for discussions on pop culture or current events among people who happen to have robotics in common. Chit-Chat is useful and I wouldn't expect it to be shut down, but certain topics definitely ought to be zapped if they threaten to turn from discussions to attacks.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

This rule gives moderators a greater ability to control high-tension topics that get out of hand quickly. There is no longer a need for the "should we discuss politics" on CD because there is a rule stating that if it gets nasty, it gets deleted.

There are many off-topic things going on, and moderators won't read every single one, purely becasue they don't need to. However, for those cases where that kind of guideline is needed, it's available.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

It's good for Chief Delphi to have a rule like this to pull out when necessary. It is, at heart, a robotics forum. The political and religious threads that get started are just a bi-product of this. This rule isn't restricting, in my opinion, because this is a FIRST forum and that's what we're here to talk about. This forum represents major sponsors of FIRST, FIRST teams, and the individuals on those teams. Having a rule that supports maintaining Chief Delphi as a welcoming forum to FIRSTers everywhere gets my vote.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Guys, Brandon is not unreasonable, nor are the other moderators. If I had to take a guess, this is their safety net for if something needs to be closed, that they'll have something to back themselves up. Pretty much, I doubt they'll close anything that isn't problematic, half the mods comment in those "amusing but not robotics" threads themselves.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

All,
I suggested this small wording change for a number of reasons. Most of which were already discussed in this thread.
The history of CD is long, most know the story already so I don't need to go over it again. The one thing that we envisioned so many years ago was that we wanted to provide a place for ROBOTICS to be discussed within the FIRST community.
From day one, it was apparent that people wanted to share ideas and sometimes there were differences of opinion among the community. Understanding that this is human nature, we encouraged the Right to share opinions as long as the discussions remained civil and no one purposefully went-out of their way to be hurtful OR harmful.
As the community grew and grew, we entertained suggestions for more and various type forum topics. We provided places for groups to congregate in an even closer knit community to discuss stuff related to or about those specific topics.
The Chit Chat fori grew out of this - it holds a wide variety of topics within it - including Games and Fantasy First. But sometimes the topics begin to sway away from anything Robotics related and into the world of politics and religion. These 2 items are the most difficult to deal with as a moderator and as the community of CD users.
So, I felt it was time to be able to re-focus the CD site back to where we as a community have a common thread - Robotics.
It will also assist the moderators in closing threads that are NOT robotics related without having to wonder "if they should have or not".
I trust the moderators know when a post or thread is not even remotely related to anything having to do with our robotics focused community and they will do a good job.
On the flipside - the number of complaints about non robotic related posts should be reduced and if all goes well, the number of people that are turned off by the non-robotics related threads will stick around and participate on this wonderful resource we have shared with all of FIRST.

Thanks, for listening.
Mike Aubry

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

I definitely support this, anyone who knows me knows I can be very vocal about some of the controversial debates that come up on these forums. I'm glad to see the ChiefDelphi team reacting quickly and decisively and simply solving the problem without a lot of fuss. Some of the discussions lately have been not only violent, but pointless and rapidly degenerating, I'm happy the moderators are on top of the job and I don't see a problem with this ruling change. CD Moderators are smart people, not robots (Excuse the irony), they know when a thread should be closed and when it's safe to leave it open. I don't imagine our normal chit-chat discussions will suffer, but this should help curb the radical political and religion flamewars started by members.

I say more power to the moderators, they're doing great!

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

As far as I'm concerned, this type of clause isn't necessary at all. Brandon, Delphi, IFI, 47 and co. are providing you a service by having these forums. Therefore they can delete, change, edit to whatever they please, for no reason whatsoever.

Anyone who disagrees can be shown the proverbial exit door.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

If they want to delete a post of mine, that's fine. However, I have a problem with someone editing what I've said and leaving it under my signature. I also wan't very happy when I had a post of my pulled from a thread where I'd resonded to someone and using it to start a new thread where it looked like I'd gone out of my way to broach a touchy subject.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Wow.

All this for me for posting up legit stuff that was IN the correct fourm. It was always assumed that threads would be locked and/or removed if it got nasty. Yes, I DID NOT get a written/verbal aggrement for the things that I posted- but I didn't see any harm in it due to the fact that I was NOT making any money off it-and I did give credit to where it came from.

Wow is all I have to say. I've made CD.com change. :D

Wow.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

That's not something to be proud of...at all.

You seem to be completely missing the point of why the threads were a problem.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

The threads where a problem because people like you think they HAVE to view every page and than complain about it when they don't like what has been said/viewed.

I DIDN'T shove this stuff down your throats. YOU CHOSE to click on the link.

What's the problem that I seem to be missing?

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Ok guys enough!
Matt this change had been talked about in one form or another for several months. The leadership of the site gets many complaints some legit and some not. We look into all complaints and take mental notes to predict future problems. Your recent post was just one instance that needed to be considered.

We (the leadership) after careful thought felt a small change was in order to like many have said, to point out that moderators will close threads if needed.

Please do not panic over the words non-robotic. The wording clarifies a safety valve when needed. We encourage the sharing of information and conversations regarding FIRST and robotics associated topics. Some spill over to other topics is expected and tolerated. The small change only brings to the forefront the rules already in place. We could wordsmith the rules to death but that would not be energy well spent. The rules we have at this moment are solid and fair but will always be under review.

Our moderators are very dedicated FIRST'ers and make the operation of the forums possible. Without them the forums would would be in chaos and not as friendly as they are.

When you see new posters, welcome them into the Community of FIRST. Shared with them your expertise and make them feel safe in this friendly atmosphere of FIRST.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

All right.

I've mulled this over, and honestly - I DO NOT see my error. I posted in the correct fourm. I didn't go all about screaming it with my head cut off. Just some people seemed to get 'disturbed' on a posting that was going on in the REAL WORLD. I can see if I was making it up, but what's wrong with posting something up in the real world? You DON'T HAVE TO REPLY do you?

Wanna talk more - pm me or drop me an e-mail. redwingvksm@gmail.com

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

You may not have gone to that extent, but the way you respond to people's posts come off as being rude. Such as:

What's with all this caps stuff? Does that mean you're trying to emphasize a word or that you're just 'yelling' ? People might want to respond to someone who is genuinely just wanting to have a discussion, but no one likes to be batted down.

In my opinion, had you approached the topic with a cooler head and a lesser sense of "this is the almighty truth", then things would have gone over better. But you came out swinging saying that this is it, the facts - and the truth is that your sources could not be cited as entirely credible.

And perhaps those threads being closed and the response from the CD community is just telling you that maybe this isn't the best time to bring up certain topics. That seemed to be the case anyway.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Also, those topics are sensitive and controversial and there are much better places to discuss it than CD. It just doesn't belong here, even in Chit-Chat. There are plenty of places much more suited to that form of discussion. When people tried to point that out to you, you responded in the method Ryan described in the previous post, which did not come across in a calm or respectful manner at all, thus irritating the people you've already stirred up. Not to be blunt, but I think it's time for this topic to get dropped, it's been dormant for a while and brought up again with you fighting to prove your point yet again, perhaps we all need to just let this remain in the past and not discuss it further.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

That means indrectly I've tolled you guys.

I post stuff that in the real world. Not ready to handle the real world? Agian, I DON'T make you post or anything for that matter.

Consider myself rent-free. Sorry Brandon - rember what I told you? It's comming soon to give the cd.com community to reailse that it's not NECESSARY to post in EVERY subject. Be warned. You may have the say now, but I'll always get the final saying in, no matter how/who/what.

Agian, I don't make you post and you still do otherwise. I'm not saying bash me, but how are opnions wrong? They aren't, and most of my negative rep points are from posting up FACTS about the real world. Does this make me a bad person? No, it makes you thin-skinned.


I don't plan on talking about this in this thread. I'll only respond to people in this thread if they make it public - wanna talk to me - dew it one-on-one. PM me or e-mail me - redwingvksm@gmail.com

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Matt,

I'm not sure if your comment, "I don't plan on talking about this in this thread. I'll only respond to people in this thread if they make it public -" means that you want a response in public or private. My apologies if I haven't figured out where your typo/error is that confuses me. I don't expect a response from you, but I did want to comment.

I'm just curious as to why you believe CD.com should/has to be a forum that allows all types of discussions. Don't owners/operators of any business/service have the right to create rules? Why should you feel that you are being singled out just because you are one of several people who have posted on controversial topics here? Moderators and Team 47 coaches have been discussing this sort of rule change for a very long time, most of it without ever mentioning your name or any other specific name for that matter. CD.com is about FIRST Robotics, related topics, and has a chit-chat section that allows some discussions to take place.

Indulge me in an analogy for a moment. Suppose I own a regulation-sized softball field and I say that only softball teams under proper supervision may utilize the field (think FIRST only discussion on CD). Then a little league baseball organization asks for permission to utilize the field. Gee, I hadn't considered that. It's hardball, but little league needs the same size and dimension of field and it makes sense. Besides it's no undue wear-and-tear on the field and not much extra work for the owner (think other robotics and similar discussions on CD). Now, other community organizations see little league baseball taking place on my softball field and they see that an exception has been made to the "softball-only" rule. So, these other organizations start using the field (think the advent of chit-chat on CD). Over time, some obtain permission, some don't. Some fit the field, some don't. Some are no extra work/problem for the owner, some are. The owner is a community oriented person and wants the field to be used, but starts to see that the local tractor pull team along with the polo league horses are creating quite a bit of extra work for the owner to keep the field in shape (think really controversial topics on CD.com that have no tie to robotics or FIRST). Thus, I go back and rewrite the original rule to state "Only softball and other approved activities may take place on this field. Under no circumstances may tractor pull, polo, or other similar activities that cause undue work for the owner take place on this field. The owner reserves the right to make all final decisions on field usage" (Think our current rule change on CD.)

This really isn't about you Matt and I think you actually stumbled on a great explanation in your own posts in this thread. You post in the "real world" which I assume is posting on other message boards around the internet. These other boards represent popular culture. FIRST, as you know, represents an effort to change the culture, which frequently goes against conventional and popular thinking that exists. Thus, it should be no surprise to anyone that CD.com elects to be a message board that is very different from those that exist in the popular culture.

It's my sincere hope that emotion will subside over time so we all can move forward together. Matt, you've been a wonderful contributor to CD in the past and I look forward to that continuing - within the rules of course. Namaste.

-Rich

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

I think, in part, you just answered why the moderators can't allow this to continue. The CD community is a diverse one with many different opinions. When you bring controversial issues onto the forums, you (although unintentionally I am sure) may cause heated debates that are not in the spirit of FIRST. Discussions turn into heated battles and then moderators have to step in. The moderators are real people with real lives and I am sure they don't want to have to spend all of their time having to intervene and ending bitter conflicts. Nobody wants to see the CD forums turn into something its not meant to be.

Believe me when I say that I am not shooting you down because that is the last thing I am doing. Nobody is telling you that you shouldn't have or express your political views, but rather that you should express your opinions over PM or through another (non-CD)place more suitable for political discussions.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

To me, it is very simple. I choose not to let people shove things down my throat by using a little feature that works wonderfully everytime when it's needed: the Ignor list.

There is a link in everyone's profile that says "Add XXX to Your Ignore List". Just a simple click of the mouse, and problem solved :). No fighting, no arguing, no debating, no time wasted on anything I don't need to see. It's like turning off the TV when there's nothing interesting on it.

See ya later~

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Ok well i started my post at around 6:30 then had to go to class before i could finish, the posts since then seem to cover it, but if you have an urge to discuss politics please do so on these sites,

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/
http://www.whistlestopper.com/
http://www.itsallpolitics.com/
http://www.politicalhotwire.com/
http://www.politicalforum.com/
http://www.politicalforums.com/

and take a look at this post by the Ever Awesome Brandon
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...58&postcount=7

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Okay guys seriously, theres enough controversy going on, can't we all just get along and be friends?

I mean yes, some people are right and some people are wrong, but we're just making this a hostile place if we just keep pointing fingers at everyone.

What he says is true, but do I think what he posted is 100% appropriate? No, so I took it upon myself to not click it. And the way he handeld the situation, he could of handeled it better, but if everyone was just accusing you of doing something, wouldn't you try to defend yourselfs to?

I'm not saying we have to like everyone, nor am I standing up for Matt Attallah. I'm just saying maybe we should just suck it up a little bit and if something is posted that we don't like, just ignore it.

But like Mike Martus said...
This isn't just about Matt Attallah. Its about what people are posting on CD and how everyone who is apart of CD is liable. To me this rule is just another step for those who make CD happen to make sure they don't get into any legal trouble. So yes, there is an addition to the forum rules, I don't think theres anyway we're going to change it, and if we did what would we get out of it? Nothing much.
----
And just a side note. I'm slightly disapointed in how this thread tuned out. I hight doubpt that when Brandon made this annoucement he wanted this thread to turn into a "Bash Matt Attallh" thread. This thread was suposted to be about the rule change, now look at it. It's terribly off topic. Which..I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

It seems ironic that a thread about a rule to keep things robotics related and peaceful could be closed for hostility on the terms of the rule it was originally created to highlight.

Let's put this back on topic.

Re: Forum Rules Updates
 

Let's just close it .. everybody's had their chance to speak.