Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

Okay, y'all. Chill.

Some folks are posting every handful of minutes which means two things -- you're very nearly making this thread into an IM-like conversation in violation of CD.com's rules and you're posting knee-jerk reactions to someone else's equally illformed replies.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

Everything Non-GP. It happens right here in FIRST, and in all communities, as far as I know. A very famous individual once talked about how we have a tendency to deal with the sliver in someone else's eye, rather than to deal with the plank in our own eye. If FIRST is setting an example to people who see this site, do we want them to see us saying "We are better than them, set an example so that they can come up to our level."? I don't.


That is the gist of what I was origionally saying.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

With all due respect, Cody is stating an opinion. His opinion. I don't agree with every statement in his initial post, I don't agree with every counter-statement made by others.

Opinions are based on experience. Some of you are offended by Cody's post. Thank you for sharing that, I'm sure it's being held in consideration. Others of you agree that it's a subject that needed to be brought up. You bring different experiences to the table. To some people, posts with a "we aren't rule-breakers" vibe send a different message than upholding a standard.

Perhaps many of you have had spectacular experiences with friends, and you've never doubted equality. However, Cody speaks for those who may have seen membership in this group, like any other club or sports activity or organization, affect friendships, schools, families...people...everything.

As Ryan said, yes, maybe this is based off of an odd inspiration, but it is an opinion nonetheless. At the very least, I plead with you to respect it, if you are the role models you aspire to be.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

Yar. See, this is why I don't come arround here anymore. Nobody can admit that they have a problem, and thus results blatant hipocrisy as they try to change everyone else but won't change themselves. I left four months ago because of this, and returned today hoping things had finally changed.





I guess I'll be back in another four months.





Edit: Eugenia has made the best and most viable point of this whole thread.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

You can be taken as a great example Bemis. You know if you were to post a list of things here which may have offended you or things we don't do right, maybe we can change ourselves so we don't lose members.

... you can't say that every single of us have posted against you or said something to you which is the reason you didn't come back for 4 months. The way I see it, you are running away from a problem that can be solved by a discussion.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

This is a discussion, and the problem being discussed has yet to be solved. Furthermore, all i've see it do is escalate to greater heights.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

Personally, I want to say, that in my own opinion, this thing has been blown completely out of proportion. People have opinions and others have completely opposite opinions. That point has been made. If anything, this argument has made us look worse than we actually are. Arguing within our own community? What have we come to? This needs to end, and end quickly. Brandon, where are you when we need you?

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

[, do we want them to see us saying "We are better than them, set an example so that they can come up to our level."? I don't.


Cody,

I think we are trying more to say.......This is the level where we all aspire to be and while no one can ever live up to perfect....we should all try. Not only for ourselves but as a group. In order to change the world and make it a better place we must start with ourselves.

I know as a person I'm deeply flawed, but as a mentor I try very hard to model the behavior I expect from my team.

Now granted I'm still a rookie but I have never gotten the impression that anyone on CD thought they were better than the rest of the world.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

That is another way that CD discussions of late could be taken, and I respect that. I would not have posted had I not KNOW that it was not my own opinion and that others wanted it said.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

I think much of this discussion at hand is how we perceive ourselves and the world around us. From experience - hence my opinion on this - I know that life gets so much better when you admit to yourself that you are not perfect, that you cannot solve every problem in the world, that you are not always right, and that you have much to learn. Maybe its just being humble.

I know I may not always follow every rule in the world, and that I am nowhere near perfect. Yet I set high standards in life, and I try to live by them. Does this mean I think I am better than everyone else? No. I'm human, just like everyone else. I understand that, and I make every attempt I can to try to act in a better or more responsible manner.

If everyone stopped trying to act like they alone are right, and started to accept that both sides to every argument may have valid points, then the world would only become a better place. Remember that old saying, that you should always listen twice as much as you speak? It can and still does apply today, with the exception that maybe listen can be replaced with "read" (or "think") and speak with "post". ;)

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

I think it is interesting that you bring this up Cody - not crazy or out of line like others here claim your thoughts to be.

When I think about it, I realize that the problem that you pointed out really has to do with human nature - not FIRST in particular. I can pretty much guarantee you that almost every human being has experienced difficulties practicing what they preach (I am no exception :o). People have been aware of this aspect of human nature for millenia ("Let he without sin cast the first stone"), and the general consensus is that hypocrisy, in a utopian world, should be avoided. But,if hypocrisy were against the law, it would be impossible for people to make any changes in their viewpoint. Contrary to the opinions of some, I believe that it is a great sign of courage and intellect when a person is able to reform their views - as opposed to taking a stance and standing by it, even when it becomes painfully obvious that they are wrong. FIRST allows people to discover the less-than-ideal aspects about themselves, and gives them a positive atmosphere in which they can make a change.

Organizations such as FIRST exist in order to make an impact upon the rest of the world which is positive. FIRST would not be able to spread it's message if the perfection of every participant was a prerequisite. Gracious professionalism is something that the organization encourages us to strive for. If we can only embody that value 90% of the time, or even 80% or 70% of the time, we are still making a positive cultural impact.

Just because we are striving for it doesn't mean we are going to be perfect 100% of the time. Nor does it mean that it is hypocritical for us to encourage this change in other people. If gracious professionalism is a value that we support, than nothing should stop us from supporting it. None of us are perfect, but participating in an organization like FIRST gives us the opportunity to grow as human beings. The goal isn't perfection (and the organization would be pointless if perfection were required in order to participate - we wouldn't have anyone to change or inspire!), but improvement. If we can all contribute to the betterment of society, why should we let our own imperfections stop us? The more we can show the world our "good side", the more the world will be influenced by our model.

Good questions Cody - don't let anyone discourage you from raising good ones. :)

Jaine

Edit: One thing to add -

You are right that FIRSTers should not speak to others in the "holier than thou" manner you took issue with. However, what those people should do instead is realize that no one is perfect (including themselves), but because of their values, they are still obligated to try to make the world a better place. If that involves sharing their opinion, that is fine, as long as they treat the other person with respect and as an equal. Personally, I believe most FIRSTers fall under the latter category - showing humility and compassion. Occasionally, someone will abuse the ideals of FIRST by percieving the world as black and white ("me good, you bad"). This action in itself does not adhere to the values of gracious professionalism, and I encourage people to avoid it. As a general rule of thumb, it is a good idea to try to stand in another person's shoes and treat them as your equal. It's called respect.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

Okay, everyone stop jumping on Cody.

Cody, I understand exactly what you are talking about. There are many members of this community who hold a viewpoint that somehow FIRSTers are somehow on a different moral plane than the rest of the world. I see and hear it all the time. People who make assumptions that everyone in FIRST is an honest and good citizen. The responses in this thread really prove Cody's point. There's a tendency for people to act like ostriches and stick their heads in the sand. The fact of the matter is, there are bad people in the world and there are bad people in FIRST. I'm not about to start painting with wide brush strokes, neither should any of you.

Yes, we should strive to make this community better. Yes, there are plenty of people in this community who do have more integrity than the average bear. Those people who assume that everyone does, are deluding themselves. By no means am I saying that every FIRSTer has this uppity attitude, but it does exist.

BTW, there really was no need for this debate to get so heated. I think the people who have been involved need to take a step back, examine their motivations and ask themselves why they got so worked up.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

Mr. Kamen was in Austin this past week visiting National Instruments. I attended his keynote presentation. It was regarding Innovation and his 6 Rudest Realities. He also talked to the techies and guests about FIRST, describing what it is and what his vision of it is. That engineers and scientists inspire young people in the fields of technology and science. He also talked about changing the culture so that more and more students want to get involved in these fields and aspire to be engineers and scientists. He talked about how bright and motivated the students in FIRST are.

I came away from listening to Mr. Kamen thinking more along the lines of what Wendy just stated. FIRST is in process of growing and developing, always. Look at VEX. Mentors and students are always in that same process.
ChiefDelphi is a place for discussions among FIRSTers and a place for guests and visitors to feel comfortable visiting to learn about FIRST. It is a place of learning for all of us.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

What is the point of looking at yourself as superior?

Does your own persanol ranking of people ever having any benefits?

Thinking you are superior really has no benefits, so why do it.

Re: Why do we think we are better?
 

It's not about thinking of yourself as superior. It's about holding yourself to a high standard, trying to live like a good person, and expecting others to do so as well.